Mustang Gregg Posted April 30, 2011 Share Posted April 30, 2011 Hello, the fire: Our outfit is looking into using M1 Carbines for ceremonial purposes (Color guards, funerals, firing squads, parades, etc). (1) The advantage of the carbine is much lighter weight than 1903 & Garands (better for the aging vets to carry). (2) Not as expensive as the Garands to purchase outright. And we already own 4 M1 Carbines. (3) It's easy to load only 3 rounds per detachable mag. On the Garand, no one makes a 3 shot en-bloc clip. (4) We haven't found a viable .30 blank source yet. Just a few GI ones here & there. I am looking into Swanson movie blanks, if I could ever get in touch with them. I'd like to hear any hints and ideas, Pards. Much obliged, Mustang Gregg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Dog, SASS #20401 Posted April 30, 2011 Share Posted April 30, 2011 I am a member of our local VFW ceremonial rifle team. We use bolt action 03 Springfields. The carbine is too short. It would not look right. You want the full length battle rifle for eyewash purposes, the carbine just would not fill the bill. The semi auto action would also be problematic even if you could find 30 carbine blanks. Bad idea. Go with 03s or 1917s in 30-06. The blanks are available and the bolt actions work well with the blanks. Do not worry about the weight. In a ceremony you do not think about the weight. One of our rifle team is 87 and a veteran of WWII, Korea, AND Viet Nam. He handles the 03 just fine. The carbine is so short that when you are holding it at order arms, you would have to bend over just to get a tenuous 3 finger grasp on the sight hood. NOT good. The carbine is just WAY too short for the task. Sell the carbines and buy full size battle rifles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mustang Gregg Posted May 1, 2011 Author Share Posted May 1, 2011 Lone Dog: Thanks for the reply. The battle rifle is most of the problem. The few vets (maybe five or six) that show up at our ceremonies are in their upper 70's to 80's (except for two of us). We HAD '03's (too heavy) and now HAVE M1 rifles (also heavy and damn few can figure out the loading). So we are pondering other options. The M1 carbine and AR-15 come to mind. And has been suggested many times. We're really trying to make it easier on the guys in the firing squads, marching in long parades, etc. BWT: I found some good info on the BFA's that are not easily visible to onlookers. Much obliged, MG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Bob #35998 Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 The carbine is so short that when you are holding it at order arms, you would have to bend over just to get a tenuous 3 finger grasp on the sight hood. NOT good. The carbine is just WAY too short for the task. Sell the carbines and buy full size battle rifles. Use short guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mustang Gregg Posted May 1, 2011 Author Share Posted May 1, 2011 Use short guys. Love to, Bob. But we can only get a very few guys to do the ceremonies. And they who are too old to handle them 10# rifles. We HAVE ten Garands right now. I am offering (at my own expense) to get them enough M1 carbines. We just don't have enough young vets in our small community. Mustang Gregg Wild West Arms PS Our community is so small that my PO box is numbered "A". My car tags are "11". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. John Campbell, SASS #58165 Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 Here's a couple of sources I was able to find online that have M1 Carbine blanks (and a few good articles about how to adapt the carbine for blank firing use as well) http://www.gunblanks.com/ http://www.atlanticwallblanks.com/ http://www.joeswansonsmotionpictureblanks.com/ http://www.90thidpg.us/Equipment/Projects/CarbineBlank/index.html Btw, I'm 5'7" tall, and do a full manual of arms with my M1, and think these would work well for your needs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Dog, SASS #20401 Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 I just cannot imagine a drill team using the carbine. Do those old guys complain of the weight of the bolt actions or is this your idea? How much weight are you actually gonna save? And you are giving up reliability and eyewash value. At 60 I am the youngest man on our squad. None of my elders have ever complained of the weight of the 03s. If a man can march onto the field, he should be able to handle the bolt rifle just fine. Once the ceremony begins, adrenalin and emotion and pride take over and the weight becomes negligible. I just cannot imagine the carbine as ceremonial rifle. Just would not look right to mine eyes. In fact, I truly feel it would look kinda goofy in that role. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trigger Mike Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 I wonder if the CMP can help you get some. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinaman,SASS32908 Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 ---Our MCL Color guard M1-S are loaded with 3 rounds prior to the service by someone and then brought to the service.We then chamber and put saftey on.That way nobody does much but fire.This makes it easier for everyone,like you say everyone is getting older. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trigger Mike Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 If you can't get the CMP to help you find some, I have one or 2 I could part with for what I paid the CMP plus shipping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Bob #35998 Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 I just cannot imagine a drill team using the carbine. Do those old guys complain of the weight of the bolt actions or is this your idea? How much weight are you actually gonna save? And you are giving up reliability and eyewash value. At 60 I am the youngest man on our squad. None of my elders have ever complained of the weight of the 03s. If a man can march onto the field, he should be able to handle the bolt rifle just fine. Once the ceremony begins, adrenalin and emotion and pride take over and the weight becomes negligible. I just cannot imagine the carbine as ceremonial rifle. Just would not look right to mine eyes. In fact, I truly feel it would look kinda goofy in that role. I don't have a problem with them using carbines. I've seen a pick of a firing squad on Iwo Jima in 45 using carbines. A rifle's a rifle as far as I'm concerned. Some would say an 80 year old guy with white hair would look goofy on an honor guard. If the guys at Greg's post want to use carbines, more power to em. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mustang Gregg Posted May 2, 2011 Author Share Posted May 2, 2011 Thanks for the replies & offers, Pards. And nope, it weren't my idee. It was from one of the 78-year old former Marines who CAN really operate a Garand (like he did in Korea). That's Commissioner Gordon, who shoots his personal M1 rifle every few days. Did I mention he's a MARINE? He noted that many of our older vets have trouble with M1 rifle en bloc clip loading; marching over rough cemetery terrain; and all of that stuff. Mustang Gregg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Dog, SASS #20401 Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 While I grant you the Garand is not ideal for the duty because of the hassle of the clips and the hassle of the semi-auto action, you would have the same action hassle with the carbine. No such hassle with the bolts. 3 blanks each, seven rifles no problemo. I will guarantee you that my pard and 3-war hero Clayton Locke from Lefors America does NOT look goofy shouldering his 03 with the rest of us at 87 yoa. Clayton single handedly ramrodded a granite monument in his little home town engraved with the names of every veteran not only KIA but died since. I am proud to call him friend. Tell you what MG, I know you are gonna do what you are gonna do but if I was on that rifle team I would quit before falling in with a carbine. Also, will the carbines function semi-auto with blanks with or without the bfa attached? Reliably? With the 03 or 17 rifles you operate the bolt with the strong hand normally, no bfa needed. With the carbine, if it fails to cycle you have to reach around with the off hand and hit the op rod from under the rifle. Quite unnatural and hard to coordinate with 7 riflemen. It would look bad for 3 or 4 to cycle and the rest be fumbling with the op rods. You can hear us all cycling the bolts back and forth as one with our 03s. Just sayin'. I think you are buying into a Chinese fire drill... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Dog, SASS #20401 Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 Be sure and order bayonets and sheaths with those carbines. You will need the added length to be able to reach something at parade rest with the butts on the ground. Or lean realllly far over to the right... ...oh wait, can a bayo and bfa be mounted at the same time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAWHIDE RED, SASS # 7076 L Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 Gregg, You shoot all the M1 blanks I sent you? Rawhide Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Lee Bishop Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 Blanks are tough to find except those made for re-eactors. At one point, you could find the (I think) Norwegian plastic case blanks and blank adapters easily. The adapter is a massive, ugly thing. Considering how light the spring on a carbine is, you could just cycle the bolt with the left hand between each round. Look on YouTube to see videos of some of the service units doing the same thing for the M-1 rifles. Carbine blanks sound like cap guns, so maybe that would make them sound a little meatier. I agree that a carbine is simply way too short to do a manual of arms with. Slinging and unslinging arms looks pretty odd (that makes me wonder, what do active units do for that now that they all carry M-4s?) but could be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.