Knarley Bob Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 There is a Henry's Rifle comming up @ an auction this comming weekend. Let's assume it is in fair to good condition,I haven't seen it yet,don't know if it's a repro or not. What would a fair price for it be if'n it's not a repro? I know autions around here and it'll go sky high, just courious when to start cuttin bait & stop fishin'. I DO NOT have my heart set on this one, but for the right price, well who knows . Knarley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Bob #35998 Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 It's a repro if it's 44-40. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noz Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 Weren't the originals all 44 rim fire with a few conversions to 44 center fire(not 44 WCF)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283 Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 Howdy Correct. All original 19th Century Henry rifles were chambered for the 44 Henry Rimfire cartridge. Some may have been rechambered for a centerfire version, but when they left the factory they were all 44 Rimfire. The carrier and frame of the original Henry was not long enough to accommodate the 44-40 round. At the time (1860), the 44 Henry Rimfire round was pretty hot stuff, much more powerful than the rocket ball ammo of its predecessor, the Volcanic rifle. The 44-40 cartridge did not come out until 1873, specifically designed for the Model 1873 Winchester. The frame and carrier of the 1873 were longer than either the 1866 or Henry, to accommodate the longer cartridge. When the first reproduction Henry rifles were made, the frames were 'stretched' in order to be able to handle the longer 44-40 and 45 Colt cartridges. 44 Rimfire ammo had not been commonly available for many years. Here is a photo illustrating the difference in length of various old cartridges. the copper cased round third from the right is a 44 Henry Rimfire round. On the far left is a 44-40, on the far right is a 45 Colt. Cartridges An original Henry went for $37,950 at a local auction in March. That's pretty cheap. The highest price ever paid for one was $207,000 in 2010. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Coles SASS 1188 Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 Frankly, if you can't tell the difference between a repro and an original, you probably shouldn't be bidding (not that that was the original question). Also, in their first run of Henry Reproductions (totaling 1,000 guns) Navy Arms did make 500 guns in 44 Henry Flat (the other 500 were in 44-40). You don't see them often, but they are out there. I own one of the original Navy Arms 44-40 Henrys (with a serial number in the 500s). So, you can't be 100% certain that just because its in 44 Henry Flat its an original gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knarley Bob Posted April 22, 2011 Author Share Posted April 22, 2011 Frankly, if you can't tell the difference between a repro and an original, you probably shouldn't be bidding (not that that was the original question). Also, in their first run of Henry Reproductions (totaling 1,000 guns) Navy Arms did make 500 guns in 44 Henry Flat (the other 500 were in 44-40). You don't see them often, but they are out there. I own one of the original Navy Arms 44-40 Henrys (with a serial number in the 500s). So, you can't be 100% certain that just because its in 44 Henry Flat its an original gun. That is why I asked this forum what I did. I didn't think that a 44-40 was right, just wanted to make sure. Like I said I have not seen this gun, and believe me, I can tell the difference. The pards on this board look out for one another, and that is what I was bettin' on. Thanks guys!!!! Knarley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Coles SASS 1188 Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 Sorry, I reread my post and it came across a little harsh, which was not my intention. Glad that you are getting the info you need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knarley Bob Posted April 22, 2011 Author Share Posted April 22, 2011 Sorry, I reread my post and it came across a little harsh, which was not my intention. Glad that you are getting the info you need. I'm cool with that, no offense taken Knarley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Boy Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 What's the auction link where this Henry is listed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knarley Bob Posted April 22, 2011 Author Share Posted April 22, 2011 What's the auction link where this Henry is listed? sorry, local paper aution......... riflemost likely repro. Knarley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Coffinmaker Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 Without being able to fondle it, inspect it's bore and innards, $700 tops unless it's something really special with serious engraving or some such. Care should be exercised as the early manufacture Henry rifles had completely different dimensions than the later guns. There are NO parts available for the early guns and they are NOT an investment. Coffinmaker PS: New Build Henrys have lots of "improved" goodies in the safety department and are a better buy, even if more expensive than "pre owned." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Bob #35998 Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 Without being able to fondle it, inspect it's bore and innards, $700 tops unless it's something really special with serious engraving or some such. Care should be exercised as the early manufacture Henry rifles had completely different dimensions than the later guns. There are NO parts available for the early guns and they are NOT an investment. Coffinmaker PS: New Build Henrys have lots of "improved" goodies in the safety department and are a better buy, even if more expensive than "pre owned." What improvements have they made? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Bullweed Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 The best deal that I have recently seen on a Uberti Henry 1860 is still open at www.cherrys.com .44 WCF (.44-40) 24" barrel in the white engraved close to new $1250 (about the same price as a new plain gun) This will be an eyecatcher an any match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Coffinmaker Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 Utah Bob, Uberti redesigned the Breach Block/Firing Pin Extension Rod attachment to prevent the extension rod from exiting the action in the event of an out of batter discharge. Previously, the only thing to impede the extension rod's departure was your face. Coffinmaker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Coles SASS 1188 Posted April 23, 2011 Share Posted April 23, 2011 Without being able to fondle it, inspect it's bore and innards, $700 tops unless it's something really special with serious engraving or some such. Care should be exercised as the early manufacture Henry rifles had completely different dimensions than the later guns. There are NO parts available for the early guns and they are NOT an investment. Coffinmaker PS: New Build Henrys have lots of "improved" goodies in the safety department and are a better buy, even if more expensive than "pre owned." Well, I just ordered a new trigger spring for my very early Navy Arms repro Henry from Numerich so there are some parts for them. Mine shoots fine, is very well made and looks great. It is certainly rarer than a modern Henry and mine is engraved within an inch of its life. There have been some redesigns in the bolt, but the firing pin hasn't fallen out of mine in the last 40 something years. If you can buy an early gun at a good price, go for it. But, as I said before, they are kind of rare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 Posted April 23, 2011 Share Posted April 23, 2011 My dream is to one day have enough money to buy an 1860's vintage Henry, get a centerfire conversion bolt, do some judicious loading of .44 Henry Centerfire, (brass and dies do exist, I've looked) and make one of those grand old guns go BANG again. Donations for this project accepted... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Man Posted April 23, 2011 Share Posted April 23, 2011 I have a number of orginal Henrys and in resent years the cheapest Henry I have seen was around $18,000.00. The last one I bought run me $87,000.00 and was an engraved First model 1864 gun. There are three models that were production guns with the rarest being the iron from gun and then up to around 5,000 ser. number is know as the first model with the rear sight installed on the receiver and the butt stock plate more rounded at the top. The secound model is found after the 5,000 or abouts [from my experence] with a more pointed butt stock plate and the rear sight mounted on the barrel. A number of years ago a very fine engraved Henry sold at aucton in Calf. for over $500,000.00 and during the past several years I had been at a number of auctons when Henrys sold for mid $20,000.00 to just under $100,000.00 with nice orginal rifles that would be nice for any collection the and they can be found in the Mid $20,000.00 to Mid $30,000.00 that are nice guns. I am different than many collectors in the fact that I prefere guns that show use but not abuse. I know they have been there and was involved in history. Most Henrys will be found that show hard use and because most saw heavy use in the Civil War and later the Western Frontier expect bluing on the barrel to be faded or gone and sometimes the lettering will be very faint. Sometimes you find Henrys that have a large solid one piece buck horn style rare sight and I do think that may have been a factory special order and I say this because most everone I have seen has the same sight on it when you find this style on a Henry. Some Henrys will show whats called the Henry bump on the butt stock and this is a bump over the screwhole that runs up the center of the stock to hold the stock on. However not all will show this. The orginal rear sight on a Henry is like the same on a later Winchester 66 Rifle and is a folding sight with an elevator and these sights are often found broken just above the base. The inside of a Henry is almost the same as a 66 Winchester or is the same as far as I can tell. As in all old guns one has to be very cafefull when buying one because there are so many fake guns today. I have never had the chance to check an early Uberti gun that was made in 44 rimfire [i would love to own one] to see if it has a short ejection port or if the later ones had the longer port for the 44-40. If anyone knows I would like to know. I know of two so called orginal Henrys that are on the market now, I have the ser. numbers somewhere and I have looked at one. It is well made and has all the right lettering a real Henry has, But two things came to mind when I looked at it and the first was it was just too perfect and secound the magazane spring was thicker than an orginal one would be. Asking price was $45,000.00 and the dealer give me so BS story about some guy was trying to sell it before his wife and he were divorced. I personally know of several Men who have bought Henrys at gunshows only to later find out they paid one was $10,000.00 another was I think $16,000.00 only to find out they had a reworked Uberti. It took me years before I could aford my first Henry and with so very few around today they will only go up in price. When I hold a Henry, I know I have in my hands a very important peice of history in my hands that changed the gun world. I think of the Hunt and Jennings rifles and the Volvanic and the very early S&W pistols and that the time the inventers must have know they were so close to a changing the way of guns and yet they were only a few years ahead of their time and then it was the Henry that finally made it all work and the rest is history. Your Pard, Texas Man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Dick, SASS #12880 Posted April 23, 2011 Share Posted April 23, 2011 I have a number of orginal Henrys and in resent years the cheapest Henry I have seen was around $18,000.00. The last one I bought run me $87,000.00 and was an engraved First model 1864 gun. There are three models that were production guns with the rarest being the iron from gun and then up to around 5,000 ser. number is know as the first model with the rear sight installed on the receiver and the butt stock plate more rounded at the top. The secound model is found after the 5,000 or abouts [from my experence] with a more pointed butt stock plate and the rear sight mounted on the barrel. A number of years ago a very fine engraved Henry sold at aucton in Calf. for over $500,000.00 and during the past several years I had been at a number of auctons when Henrys sold for mid $20,000.00 to just under $100,000.00 with nice orginal rifles that would be nice for any collection the and they can be found in the Mid $20,000.00 to Mid $30,000.00 that are nice guns. I am different than many collectors in the fact that I prefere guns that show use but not abuse. I know they have been there and was involved in history. Most Henrys will be found that show hard use and because most saw heavy use in the Civil War and later the Western Frontier expect bluing on the barrel to be faded or gone and sometimes the lettering will be very faint. Sometimes you find Henrys that have a large solid one piece buck horn style rare sight and I do think that may have been a factory special order and I say this because most everone I have seen has the same sight on it when you find this style on a Henry. Some Henrys will show whats called the Henry bump on the butt stock and this is a bump over the screwhole that runs up the center of the stock to hold the stock on. However not all will show this. The orginal rear sight on a Henry is like the same on a later Winchester 66 Rifle and is a folding sight with an elevator and these sights are often found broken just above the base. The inside of a Henry is almost the same as a 66 Winchester or is the same as far as I can tell. As in all old guns one has to be very cafefull when buying one because there are so many fake guns today. I have never had the chance to check an early Uberti gun that was made in 44 rimfire [i would love to own one] to see if it has a short ejection port or if the later ones had the longer port for the 44-40. If anyone knows I would like to know. I know of two so called orginal Henrys that are on the market now, I have the ser. numbers somewhere and I have looked at one. It is well made and has all the right lettering a real Henry has, But two things came to mind when I looked at it and the first was it was just too perfect and secound the magazane spring was thicker than an orginal one would be. Asking price was $45,000.00 and the dealer give me so BS story about some guy was trying to sell it before his wife and he were divorced. I personally know of several Men who have bought Henrys at gunshows only to later find out they paid one was $10,000.00 another was I think $16,000.00 only to find out they had a reworked Uberti. It took me years before I could aford my first Henry and with so very few around today they will only go up in price. When I hold a Henry, I know I have in my hands a very important peice of history in my hands that changed the gun world. I think of the Hunt and Jennings rifles and the Volvanic and the very early S&W pistols and that the time the inventers must have know they were so close to a changing the way of guns and yet they were only a few years ahead of their time and then it was the Henry that finally made it all work and the rest is history. Your Pard, Texas Man When I read some of your posts describing guns you own I find myself wondering why you don't share some photos with us. How about posting some photos of your engraved first model Henry and providing a link so we can see what sounds like a relly neat rifle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Man Posted April 23, 2011 Share Posted April 23, 2011 Buffalo dick, Yes I would like to do just that. I am not real good on a computer as some Pards are and I need to learn how to transfere pictures from a camera to the web. I know some Pards. here can do it and I enjoy when they do. I have wanted for some time to post a pic. I have of Me holding a Walker from my collection with me next to Sam Walkers gravestone that I think would make a nice pic. to have as my picture on my web here. Sometimes its hard to tell about something in words that a pic would be so much better. One thing I have always enjoyed about this site is the knowledge other Pards have and are willing to share here. Your Pard, Texas Man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyman Oldcowhand SASS #68474 Posted April 24, 2011 Share Posted April 24, 2011 Frankly, if you can't tell the difference between a repro and an original, you probably shouldn't be bidding (not that that was the original question). Also, in their first run of Henry Reproductions (totaling 1,000 guns) Navy Arms did make 500 guns in 44 Henry Flat (the other 500 were in 44-40). You don't see them often, but they are out there. I own one of the original Navy Arms 44-40 Henrys (with a serial number in the 500s). So, you can't be 100% certain that just because its in 44 Henry Flat its an original gun. Hey Doc Are you saying that the lower number Navy Arms Henry's in 44-40 are harder to find and might be higher priced than the lastest ones? Hyman Oldcowhand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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