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Interesting Old West Ballistics


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From http://www.frfrogspad.com/miscellp.htm#hot bottom of page

 

Cartridge Bullet Type Bullet Weight Black Powder charge Velocity

 

.32-20 RNFP 115* 20 860

.36 Cap & Ball .375 round ball 79 20 830

.36 Cap & Ball .375 round ball 79 28 1000

.38 Colt RN 148 15.5 770

.38-40 RNFP 180 40 970

.41 Colt RN 200 unk 730

.44-40 RNFP 200 40 850

.44 Colt RN 225 23 640

.44 Cap & Ball .451 round ball 138 25 765

.44 Cap & Ball .451 round ball 138 35 965

.44 Cap & Ball (Walker) .451 round ball 138 60 1300

.44 Merwin & HUbert RN 220 30 800

.44 S&W Conical FP 218 25 700

.45 Colt RNFP 255 40** 850

.45 Schofield RNFP 230 28 770

 

* Also listed with a 100 gr bullet

** Also known to have been loaded with 45 g for about 950 f/s

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The bottleneck 44-40 with 40 grains of powder and a 200 grain RNFP bullet has the same velocity as the straight wall 45 Colt with 40 grains of powder and a 255 grain RNFP bullet? That seems improbable.

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Howdy

 

Who knows where that data came from. I am also curious how anybody could stuff 45 grains of Black Powder under a 250 grain bullet in 45 Colt. Just about the maximum I have ever seen referred to is 40 grains, and that was with the old folded rim Benet primed cases. Even a balloon head case had trouble holding 40 grains in.

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"41 Colt RN 200 unk 730"

 

 

 

IIRC, .41 Colt Long is 21 grains. I don't know if this is for balloon-head cases or solid-head.

Tried looking in some catalog reprints, only one showing a powder charge is the 1900 Sears- it shows 10 grains, which I suppose is smokeless.

If nothing else, we thereby get an idea of when the phase-in of smokeless occurred. In 14 years or less, smokeless had gone from military top-top secret to commercial release.

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None of the "Quote" Data lists barrel lenghts nor firing conditions ..........

 

I have tested quite a bunch of Pre 1900 rounds left to me by my Grandfather in both .38-40 and .45 colts (note lack of capital and S on the end of Colt) I also have several fixed capacity measures used for 1851 Navy and 1860 Army guns that remain in the family ...

 

Loading my "Uberti" 1851 navy using the measure intended for the Original 1851 results in Velocities of 1,034 Fps. with "Hodgen" 3f (bought in the 1970s)I have used over 500 pounds of this powder since the 70s... Using "Curtis & Harvey" 3f nets 1,068 Fps. This powder was also bought in bulk in the 70s...

Also "Dupont" 3f from the 1950s clocks 1,045 Fps using .380 balls in a 7 1/2 inch barrel ... The Oringinal Colt 1851 supplies about the same velicities but it was felt that the "Uberti" was best subjected to this extencive testing ... In all thousands of balls were sent downrange using 7 different brands of 3f powder both old and new ...

 

Again using a current vintage "Uberti" 1860 with 8 inch barrel to save wear and tear on the Oringinal the following velocities were obtained ,, Hodgen 3f = 1,008 Fps. , "Curtis & Harvy" = 1,043 Fps. ,Dupont 1,023 Fps. all loads use a .454 ball...

 

 

And In my First Gen. Colt in .38-40 7 1/2 inch barrel with 181 gr, RNFP bullets,(1-20 alloy) using Current Winchester brass loaded using a 24 inch drop tube and allowing for 1/16 inch compression by the bullet,,, loads clocked ,,,, !,024 Fps. with Hodgens 3f, 1,031 fps. with Dupont 3f , and 1,060 Fps. with C & H 3f ....

 

In .45 colt using a 7 1/2 inch gun and bullets that weigh 255 grains using current Winchester Brass and 24 in. droptube allowing for 1/8 inch compression by the bullet gives these results 1,024 Fps. with Hodgen 3f ,1,028 Fps. with Dupont and 1,036 Fps. using C&H ....

 

Theae loads though using modern brass and less powder by weight and volume are duplicate loads that match the original loads very very well ... Presures are a very close match as well ....

 

So using current brass of lesser volume,and slightly less powder, but still full case loads it is possible to match the proformance of the loads of yore ...

 

Driftwood , I am able to crowd 42.9 grains by weight of "Curtis & Harvey" into a "inside" primed case from 1876 and seat an Original 255 gr. bullet back in place .... Creating a neat looking Dummy round. as there is no way to replace the fired primer ...

 

Hope this helps ...

 

Jabez Cowboy

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Keep in mind that these velocities may be + or - 50 to 70 ft per sec for any given pistol and may also vary by the same amount from pistol to pistol.

 

Tou have to chrony your pistol and load to find out.

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Other than the Walker with 60 grains of Black Powder at 1300 fps. Looks like the 38-40 is the highest velocity at 970 fps.

I've talked to OLD TIMERS who always said their 38 WCF's "SHOT HARD" I have a pair of Colts made in 1900 38-40's and a Bisley Model in 38-40 made in 1902, all with 4 3/4 barrels and shoot 180 grain bullets. With a full load of Black Powder...they BARK.

Just sayin'

 

Big Jake

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