Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283 Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 Howdy Yesterday, a big mall not too far from where I live got locked down after the police received reports of a man with a rifle. Turned out to be an umbrella. I understand the need to be alert these days, but it sure is a shame that panics can happen so easily. Full story here: Link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Gauntlet , SASS 60619 Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 It seems to me that it would be a useful police procedure to require verification or corroboration or something before locking a mall down for hours. On the other hand, if you've ever been the target of an enraged old lady with a loaded bumbershoot, you know that a SWAT team can be called for to disarm the elderly aggressor....for those tasks, though, they keep their airguns. Or of course we could pass a new law to require that naughty man to have a proper hook handle on his deadly parapluie.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LawMan Mark, SASS #57095L Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 Cops have to work with what information they're given. They get chided and complained about for assuming there is a danger until proven otherwise. The story would have been entirely different if the complainant had been right. I'll keep erring on the side of caution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Gauntlet , SASS 60619 Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 Cops are part of our society (no kidding?) and we have a society which places supposed safety above everything, and that's the response society evidently wants now. Glad he wasn't carrying a real rifle in a rifle case, like back to Big 5 or something! Doubt if it would have turned out "different" if so, though.... I don't doubt that the police should respond to a "report" of a man in a mall carrying a rifle. Like talking to the reporting witness, etc., going looking for the guy, etc. When a mall is "locked down", does that mean you are not free to leave it, get in your car, and go home? I would view this as a problem if I was at the said mall.... If there is a report that a man in the neighborhood is carrying a rifle, is the SWAT team dispatched to "lock down" the neighborhood? If so, I'd better be more careful carrying my guns from the car to the house! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sneaky Gun Runner SASS 79775 Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 I was in a mall in OKC when real shots were fired. I got my wife inside the door of a store, pulled my CCW, and kept it pointed at the floor as a group of five teens ran buy. One of them in the middle did have a pistol in his hand and I later found out on the news that night that he was the one that had squeezed off the shots. I stood there a minute or two and put up my CCW. When I took stock of what was happeneing I saw about 15 other people in the store with us and a man and a lady both re-holstering as well. The police never did lock down the mall, but as scared as I was just being there I could understand the thinking behind it. That one incident made me do a lot rethinking about quite a few things. Just wanna say thanks again to those that stand on the front lines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283 Posted April 20, 2011 Author Share Posted April 20, 2011 Howdy Again I actually know one of the Swat officers in one of the photos. I do understand that the police need to act on whatever information they have at the time. I just think it is a shame that such incidents are so common today. I remember when guys on the school rifle team brought their rifles to school. That was a long, long time ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Gauntlet , SASS 60619 Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 Umbrella incidents are common? Considering how many malls we have in this big country, and how few "mall shooting incidents" there have been (there was a real one at the Tacoma Mall a few years back), I don't think it's a particular problem... So what is it about malls? Seems like they have some kind of cultural status as shooting galleries. Does anybody talk about "downtown shooting incidents"? Keeping in mind this was not a shooting incident at all.... And how big does the mall have to be to qualify for a SWAT visit? My local Big 5 is at a strip mall. I've carried several rifles out of there over the years; in boxes, of course. Maybe only covered malls qualify, because they have entrance doors that can be "locked down". I Guess what gets in my craw about this incident is not that there was a police response to this report; it's the "lockdown" idea. Do the police really purport to tell you you can't leave? Maybe I have a misunderstanding on that score...maybe you only can't enter...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Pony Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 Driftwood I was listening to Michael Graham on WTKK this morning, he was ripping on this. What gets me is that the subject apparently was cleared out of the mall by the responding officers, went back to work then called himself in when he figured out he was the guy they were looking for. Granted an umbrella that looks like a ninja sword is kind of stupid but no one ever established if walking around with a REAL sword in your backpack is a no go under Mass laws. Its kind of sad that no one, repeat no one, eyeballed the guy to see if he actually had a weapon or not. That an active shooter drill was being held nearby was a happy coinkydink. Kind of like a fire alarm going off in the hotel the firemans convention is taking place. Yes we do need to be careful, vigilant and watchful in this day and age but we still have to use our brains as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Bill Burt Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 I'm not finding fault with the police at all, but I also don't understand the locked down concept. Unless shots have been fired why would you want to confine people to an area where you suspect a potential shooter is present? For that matter, even if shots had been fired why would that be an appropriate response? I'm not saying there isn't a good reason, just that I'm curious as to what it might be. Personally if I were there with my wife and three little ones I would want to leave right away, and I would be a lot more concerned about their safety than the need to take measures to apprehend someone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holden A. Grudge Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 Unless shit's ave been fired why would you want to confine people to an area where you suspect a potential shooter is present? sorry....I am just way too juvenile sometimes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Bill Burt Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 LOL, sorry about that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283 Posted April 20, 2011 Author Share Posted April 20, 2011 So what is it about malls? Seems like they have some kind of cultural status as shooting galleries. Does anybody talk about "downtown shooting incidents"? Keeping in mind this was not a shooting incident at all.... Howdy Again I dunno about where you live, but in this part of the country, most malls have a policy about no firearms being allowed on the premises. That's like posting a sign saying 'shooting gallery, do whatever you want' to a loony bent on mayhem. Same with schools. That's what makes no firearm zones so attractive to malcontents. Read John Lott's More Guns Less Crime. John Lott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocDisaster # 45431 Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 +1 Cops have to work with what information they're given. They get chided and complained about for assuming there is a danger until proven otherwise. The story would have been entirely different if the complainant had been right. I'll keep erring on the side of caution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Bill Burt Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 Overworked, underpaid, under appreciated, often vilified, and subject to having unneeded holes added to their bodies at any time. I may not always understand their motives or actions, but they're going to get the benefit of the doubt from me every time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loophole LaRue, SASS #51438 Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 I'm not shaking my head over the police response; as others have said, you need to work with the facts you're given, and the report received was of a man with a rifle...not a sword or an unbrella (later reports seem to indicate that the unbrella may have been contained in a long, black case with a carrying strap, which I guess might be confused by a layman with a gun case) What has me rolling my eyes is the post-incident suggestion by the responding police that we need laws banning these umbrellas.............. LL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Bob #35998 Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 We'd all like to go back to the old world we once lived in. Back before mass murders, gang bangers, and terrorist attacks. But it ain't gonna happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virgil Ray Hality, SASS# 37355 Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 We'd all like to go back to the old world we once lived in. Back before mass murders, gang bangers, and terrorist attacks. But it ain't gonna happen. Interesting thought Bob. After contemplating this, I am not sure that there is a time in recorded history where mass murders, armed gangs and terrorits didn't exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colt McCloud, SASS #65003L Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 Cops have to work with what information they're given. They get chided and complained about for assuming there is a danger until proven otherwise. The story would have been entirely different if the complainant had been right. I'll keep erring on the side of caution. Make it +3 for Lawman Mark and DocDisaster. Those wondering why you might stay in the mall. Firstly, cover and concealment are two different things so you better know which one you have. If you do know, you can make a better choice of stay put or move. Moving may get you into a lot of trouble like a face to face confrontation with the shooter.Hopefully your local SWAT team and/or regular uniformed patrol force is trained and ready to respond to an active shooter in a public place. Hindsight is always 20/20. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Bob #35998 Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 Interesting thought Bob. After contemplating this, I am not sure that there is a time in recorded history where mass murders, armed gangs and terrorits didn't exist. Never said they didn't exist in the past. But they were much more rare. I suppose I should have said "before such things were fairly frequent occurrences". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goody, SASS #26190 Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 Ok, questioms for the LEO's here. If you watch the picture albumn at the bottom of the link that Driftwood put up. Picture 9 shows an officer with a rifle equipped with a suppressor. Why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stepnmud#33546 Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 Outlaw Umbrella's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Gauntlet , SASS 60619 Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 We'd all like to go back to the old world we once lived in. Back before mass murders, gang bangers, and terrorist attacks. But it ain't gonna happen. The flip side of this is that violent crime is way down; recently in New Yawk City down to 1963 levels for murder. I'd walk the nightime streets of lots of Manhattan now; not so in the late 70s and 80s. One thing we have a lot more of is endless publicity, with the public hysteria it produces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshall Tac, SASS #68015 Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 Ok, questioms for the LEO's here. If you watch the picture albumn at the bottom of the link that Driftwood put up. Picture 9 shows an officer with a rifle equipped with a suppressor. Why? I didn't see the picture of the rifle in question, but I can tell you that "suppressors" are fast becoming standardized equipment in my neck of the woods for rifles that are used as "entry guns" or are being used indoors. The suppressor helps reduce the muzzle blast and over-pressure concussion of firing a centerfire rifle in a confined space. Swat officers are also wearing more and more electronic ear protection while doing entries for the same reason. It is a safety issue for the shooting officers as well as those surrounding him when he touches off the round. A lot of the more progressive departments around here are looking at suppressors from a "risk management" and OSHA perspective as "protective equipement" for the officer's hearing.... Paying out an officer's medical retirement from hearing loss from a shooting is the same as the retirement payout as if they were shot in the line of duty. (hope this makes sense) -Tac Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rusty Bore SASS#22739 Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 "One of the most important things the public can do to further homeland security is to report anything that doesn't seem quite right." I'd like to report my Congressman! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goody, SASS #26190 Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 I didn't see the picture of the rifle in question, but I can tell you that "suppressors" are fast becoming standardized equipment in my neck of the woods for rifles that are used as "entry guns" or are being used indoors. The suppressor helps reduce the muzzle blast and over-pressure concussion of firing a centerfire rifle in a confined space. Swat officers are also wearing more and more electronic ear protection while doing entries for the same reason. It is a safety issue for the shooting officers as well as those surrounding him when he touches off the round. A lot of the more progressive departments around here are looking at suppressors from a "risk management" and OSHA perspective as "protective equipement" for the officer's hearing.... Paying out an officer's medical retirement from hearing loss from a shooting is the same as the retirement payout as if they were shot in the line of duty. (hope this makes sense) -Tac Makes perfect sense, thanks for the reply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlicLee SASS #16638 Life Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 Driftwood, I can remember the green door on the coat closet in school where I put my new Mossberg 22 for show and tell. I can also remember Mrs Buckly, if you bit your nails, she would take you across the street to the horse corral auction grounds and make you stick your fingers in the dirt. That stopped most. Not one parent complained as they all probably had her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loophole LaRue, SASS #51438 Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 Driftwood, I can remember the green door on the coat closet in school where I put my new Mossberg 22 for show and tell. I can also remember Mrs Buckly, if you bit your nails, she would take you across the street to the horse corral auction grounds and make you stick your fingers in the dirt. That stopped most. Not one parent complained as they all probably had her. The old ways were not always pretty, but they sure were practical..... LL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Dan Dawkins Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 I dread the day when folks around the world begin to talk about what wimps we are and start comparing us to the French. Wait...it's already started. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mustang Gregg Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 In that pic, the damn thing didn't look like a rifle at all. MG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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