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Protect the Criminal and let him prey


Outlaw Gambler

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Too bad the individual that pulled the post regarding the thief in our midst sees fit to not allow the members of SASS to be aware of the thief's wrongdoing so it is easier for him to obtain more unaware victims. I guess the truth is not allowed and whomever pulled the post doesn't care about the well being of the upstanding members. Its not slander if it is the truth and I have over 20 pages of printed and documented email and SASS pm's documenting the situation. I know you will be sending me a pm to suspend my wire privileges, but if that is the price of truth, go ahead. :FlagAm:

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The SASS Wire is not to be used for individuals to challenge vendors or argue their cases or conflicts. It is never to be used as a leveraging tool for any reason. Those are personal issues and not acceptable on the Wire.

 

This is from the SASS guidelines, and it is why your post was pulled. I may not agree with it, but then they didn't ask for my opinion. Don't let it consume you. Take legal action against the guy. Best of luck.

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The SASS Wire is not to be used for individuals to challenge vendors or argue their cases or conflicts. It is never to be used as a leveraging tool for any reason. Those are personal issues and not acceptable on the Wire.

 

Nowhere in my post did I challange a vendor, or argue a case against one. I didn't use it as a leveraging tool. I only attempted to make the rest of the board aware of a bad apple and supported my statement with some facts.

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The SASS Wire is not to be used for individuals to challenge vendors or argue their cases or conflicts. It is never to be used as a leveraging tool for any reason. Those are personal issues and not acceptable on the Wire.

 

Nowhere in my post did I challange a vendor, or argue a case against one. I didn't use it as a leveraging tool. I only attempted to make the rest of the board aware of a bad apple and supported my statement with some facts.

 

Yup - that's how I saw it too...and I appreciate the 'bad apple' report pard...

 

GG ~ :FlagAm:

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It's the same attitude as alot of our citizens nowadays. Just pretend everything's OK and it will be. "Iit's a lovely day in the neighborhood", so what if someone got shot or is stealing us blind! If we ignore it, it hasn't really happend

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Nowhere in my post did I challange a vendor, or argue a case against one. I didn't use it as a leveraging tool. I only attempted to make the rest of the board aware of a bad apple and supported my statement with some facts.

 

You can play semantics if you wish, Outlaw, but the definition of a vendor is 'a person or business that sells'. This fellow was selling you guns that he probably had no intention of delivering. That makes it a crime, fraud. In your case (since you used money orders) it is mail fraud, which states, 'to unlawfully obtain money or valuables in which the postal system is used at any point in the commission of a criminal offense.'

 

Go after him legally. As I said, I don't agree with the SASS Wire Guideline, because I have been burned twice by so called reputable vendors. We have some scam artist working out of Eastern Washington that keeps ripping people off. I would like to see a 'use at your own risk' list myself, but SASS does not allow it. Their house; their rules.

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You can play semantics if you wish, Outlaw, but the definition of a vendor is 'a person or business that sells'. This fellow was selling you guns that he probably had no intention of delivering. That makes it a crime, fraud. In your case (since you used money orders) it is mail fraud, which states, 'to unlawfully obtain money or valuables in which the postal system is used at any point in the commission of a criminal offense.'

 

Go after him legally. As I said, I don't agree with the SASS Wire Guideline, because I have been burned twice by so called reputable vendors. We have some scam artist working out of Eastern Washington that keeps ripping people off. I would like to see a 'use at your own risk' list myself, but SASS does not allow it. Their house; their rules.

 

...and I would bet 'they' will explain it to him if he's outta bounds on the issue. ;)

 

GG ~ :FlagAm:

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Hi Outlaw,

 

Your example was an extreme case. There was another on the Wire recently. I Googled the vendor's reviews. They were mostly bad. So, warning folks seems like a service. However, our Wire Guidelines must be followed just like SASS rules.

 

I'd really like to warn the world about a certain shooter being a bully, thief (he admitted the theft), and cheat. However, I must do it privately or just hope no one else has similar problems with him. Alas, I've found that he's still causing trouble and getting himself banned from clubs. I am thankful I've never encountered anyone else like him.

 

Just needed to vent, which is what I suspect part of your post was about. ;) Just be glad you were not punished for your transgression.

 

Regards,

 

Allie Mo

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And there may be other issues involved that can't be talked about openly, such as liability issues. If wrong-doing is alleged, and if some vendor complains or threatens suit......SASS could be embroiled in the fight for providing a platform for part of the dispute...... A vendor may not be a member/poster, here, and so any alleging would be one-sided, and even if he were a member/poster, here, I doubt his lawyer would allow him to argue his case in this forum. He'd probably tell his client to remain quiet, and so it'd still be a one-sided dispute, which I'd think could leave SASS in a bind for providing that.

 

I am not a lawyer, but I can imagine a whole host of issues that probably would be best avoided by not providing a platform for allegations of wrongdoing, and particularly when it'd likely be one-sided.

 

I don't know what is behind the rules, but I can imagine where there may be some problems avoided by them, for the preservation of the Wire.

 

For me, I had an issue recently with a gun grip seller (never mentioned), and I resolved it by taking the matter to the Attorney General of the state. Quick fix, no problem.

 

Aunt Jen

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They already did, Gunner. Post went poof... ;)

 

That wasn't an explaination - it was a disappearance ;)

 

You see it may have been Outlaw's thread or it may have been some nasty response that caused it to be removed - who knows?

 

So...you can''t simply take a thread going 'poof' as a true explaination - geez, thought you were smarter than that :P

 

Of course, there are plenty of non-moderator 'Wire Guidline' authorities that will set an upstanding pard straight :rolleyes:

 

GG ~ :FlagAm:

 

EDIT: A good pard pm'd me on this...and I respect their point ~ so I'll easy on out of this thread :D

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You can play semantics if you wish, Outlaw, but the definition of a vendor is 'a person or business that sells'.

 

 

Semantics has nothing to do with it. In the strictest interpretation of the word "vendor" your definition is correct. But to me and thousands of others a vendor is one who has a store or a website and earns his/her or their living from the commercial sale of a product(s), not an individual who visits a forum to occasionally sell one or more items that they no longer have a need for. The guy that stole from OG was surely not the former but was of the latter. I think the members of any organization have a right to know when there is a snake in their midst.

 

If the accused is not guilty let him come on here & post his side of the situation. Then lock the thread.

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Semantics has nothing to do with it. In the strictest interpretation of the word "vendor" your definition is correct. But to me and thousands of others a vendor is one who has a store or a website and earns his/her or their living from the commercial sale of a product(s), not an individual who visits a forum to occasionally sell one or more items that they no longer have a need for. The guy that stole from OG was surely not the former but was of the latter. I think the members of any organization have a right to know when there is a snake in their midst.

 

If the accused is not guilty let him come on here & post his side of the situation. Then lock the thread.

 

In today's world, semantics has everyhing to do with it. The guy is a vendor in the legal sense. I hope Outlaw cleans his clock using legal avenues. AFA the rest of your post, I agree 100%, Nathan, but obviously someone else doesn't agree, and the thread was pulled. This is why I only buy from well-known vendors such as Long Hunter Shooting Supply, Jimmy Spurs' Cowboy Gun Works, Wild West Merchantile, Jaxonbilt Hats, Kirkpatrick Leather, Tim's Boots, etc. If I do a private buy, I do it in person, so I have the goods in hand, and the seller has cash in hand.

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.... This is why I only buy from well-known vendors such as Long Hunter Shooting Supply, Jimmy Spurs' Cowboy Gun Works, Wild West Merchantile, Jaxonbilt Hats, Kirkpatrick Leather, Tim's Boots, etc. If I do a private buy, I do it in person, so I have the goods in hand, and the seller has cash in hand.

 

Usually can't go wrong there I guess, but I try to buy from a local source if I can, especially a vendor from the club I shoot with - better pricing and better lead times ;)

 

If they can't provide - then I might consider the more well-known fellers...

 

GG ~ :FlagAm:

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SASS has never allowed any post like you posted, so you are not being single out

 

 

Miss Allie could you PM me with that persons name if he is a local guy

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I took the post as a public service ....

 

 

 

Thanks for the warning ,,,,,,,,,, I find that I tend to need the reminder that not all SASS folk is what they seem .... But 99.9% are great folks ...

 

I regularly send stuff out before recieving payment and have never been burned yet ....

 

But the two Bad Apple reports I have seen ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, were helpfull ...

 

 

Jabez Cowboy

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Outlaw,

 

I, for one, appreciated the heads up concerning an alledged thief in our midst. I understand that SASS wire rules must be adhered to without exception, but........... BTW, for some reason I am unable to PM you.

 

Sun

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:FlagAm:

 

 

Gambler,

 

I'm glad I saw your post, I hope everyone that read it remembers!!!!

 

 

Good Luck, my friend.

 

 

WR

 

Yep, I'm right there with ya. I remember the dude's handle and I won't forget if he pops up again.

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Moderators, this post has run its course and served its purpose. Would you please delete it. Thanks for allowing me to vent.

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