Jittery Jim Jonah, SASS #64913L Posted April 17, 2011 Share Posted April 17, 2011 After having a Dillon XL650 sitting in its box for a couple years I was convinced by a good friend to break it out and set it up in preparation for loading .45 LC and .45 ACP Spent a few hours yesterday drilling holes and mounting the press to a bench in my workshop/ reloading room. The manual/ instructions were very disorganized and confusing to both of us. Spent time searching for and buying bolts and nuts to mount it. This I did NOT have to do with my RCBS Pro 2000. I got all the stuff with the press. I read through the manual a couple times and found I had to go back and forth to different sections to find instructions for installing the components. So after the first day I went back to finish up. I think I have most of everything done. So all I need now is to install the dies, adjust, and be on my way. Then I find out that I need a 'primer flip tray' to load the primers. So now I gotta go BUY something before I can reload using the Dillon. Another thing I didn't need with my RCBS. I got everything I needed to load primers with the press.... I'm gonna use the RCBS flip tray so at least I won't hafta buy one. AND I had to guess about several components installation..... Like the cap on the primer fill tube and the 'early warning device'. It looks like I need to leave the screw on silver metal cap on and put the device over the top of it? In the photos it's not on the tube I can see the threads. But the primer tube sticks way up from the feeding tube preventing the device from working. So do I leave the screw cap on or off? Anyhow, I am sure it will work great once it's set up, but with my RCBS all I did was follow the manual step by step and when I was done I was ready to go. No jumping around and no guessing about installation... Time for a nap, JJJ-D :ph34r: UPDATE Mothers Day 2011 After adjusting, checking, readjusting, checking again, testing, and rechecking again.... I loaded my first 98 rounds on the 650. Only took 3 hours... I have had things happen today that have NEVER happened before on my RCBS Pro 2000.... Things went well for the first 40 or so rounds, then.... The primers were becoming mis-aligned when seating, off just a hair to the point you could feel a slight catch as the primer went in.... not every time mind you, just every fourth or fifth one, then BOOM! A PRIMER WENT OFF! ALL STOP.... I rechecked everything again, and adjusted the cartridge station locator tab again. Cleaned everything and began slowly again. After about 6-7 rounds it was misaligned again. Checked the shellplate for debris, removed the primer and continued... THEN the powder charger started to drop powder on the shellplate. (NOW I have stuff to clean off the shell plate) Checked everything, good and tight... THEN the powder bar started throwing erratic charges, some too much, some nothing... THEN it froze completely. At least this time I know what the trouble is, it's the powder. Looks like the 650 does NOT LIKE APP powder. Took the powder measure and dies apart and cleaned everything and reinstalled. Worked fine for about 12 rounds, then everything started all over... bad primer seating, bad powder charges, and NOW the empty shell won't always go all the way into the deprime station.... Dillon is closed today so I cleaned the press took and everything out of it.... My RCBS has no problem with the APP powder, has NEVER mis-aligned a primer or EXPLODED one, and although it is not auto-indexing I can reload 300-400 in the same time frame. Been using it 5 years now. So tomorry I reload on the RCBS, then I'll call Dillon and see what they say, although I'm pretty sure they will blame it on the powder. We shall see. I need a drink... JJJ-D :ph34r: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Junky Posted April 17, 2011 Share Posted April 17, 2011 A few years in the garage......didn't seem too anxious to try it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dubious Don #56333 Posted April 17, 2011 Share Posted April 17, 2011 The video really helps and tech service is always ready to offer ad-vice over the phone. If you really don't like that Dillon, box it and ship it off to me; I'll make sure she finds a good home! Seriously, it's like any mechanical device. They all have their tricks and once you get used to it,I think you'll ike it more. Follow the adjustment instructions for the primer seating station, make sure the primer plug is screwed in all the way. The primer tube on the press; Put in the right size sleeve for small or large primers. Screw on the silver knurled nut. Slide the blue screecher box over it and tighten the allen screw. Once you have a filled primer pickup tube (don't forget to keep the cotter pin in) align the end with the hole in the top THEN pull the pin. If the primers don't all slide right in, don't lift it, just tip it from side to side. I put the black plastic "follower in the top of the pickup tube to ensure all the primers fall out of the pickup tube. Then put the black flapper on the screamer box down and slide the follower down the top of the tube. If you don't want the primer wheel to cycle, say when adjusting the press, take off the black plastic wedge that activates it located on the right side of the press frame. Another allen screw and another good investment is their allen tool kit with stand that bolts right on the back of the press. Actually, depending on the primers you buy (winchesters seem to be in the tray anvil side up) you could just dump them on a clean bench area and pick them up from there. I have a pair of tweezers handy and instead of shaking the primer flip tray (which always seems to turn over the ones you DON'T want to flip) if there's only a couple needing flipping, I just do it with the tweezers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adirondack Jack, SASS #53440 Posted April 17, 2011 Share Posted April 17, 2011 The body of the primer alarm slips over a metal piece that is threaded onto the black metal primer "pipe", and is secured with a clamp type set screw that is part of the blue alarm body. In the pic, all I have done is twist the body of the alarm a bit so you can see the side. It is mated to the metal cap once installed, so ya could remove the alarm by twisting it off if need be.... http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v54/adirondack_jack/2011-04-17_18-28-31_823.jpg I agree the instructions are a bit overwhelming, but once ya get er up and running, it's worth it. For others reading this, I heartily encourage buying yer Dillon from Brian Enos at his .com store. Brian is a pro, and will walk ya through each and every bit ya need, like the primer flipper.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Long Branch Louie Posted April 17, 2011 Share Posted April 17, 2011 I just set up a used 650 I bought from a friend, didn't find the instructions all that confusing.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricochet Roy, SASS #71853 Posted April 17, 2011 Share Posted April 17, 2011 Jonny T, need it say more? Sorry you had a rough time pard. Roy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Okie Sawbones, SASS #77381 Posted April 17, 2011 Share Posted April 17, 2011 I bought the video. It made the initial setup totally painless. I also bought the strong mount, which I strongly recommend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I. M. Crossdraw, SASS# 8321 Posted April 17, 2011 Share Posted April 17, 2011 Once set up is done, you can crank that press much faster than your RCBS 2000. Sorry it has to sit in a box for a couple of years. I have tried other presses and Dillon is much better, JMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deuce Stevens SASS#55996 Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 Got mine rocking and rolling pretty quickly and did not find the investment of a $3 primer flip tray to be that painful. Best buy I have ever made in the game. Mileage always varies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jittery Jim Jonah, SASS #64913L Posted April 18, 2011 Author Share Posted April 18, 2011 Got mine rocking and rolling pretty quickly and did not find the investment of a $3 primer flip tray to be that painful. Best buy I have ever made in the game. Mileage always varies. Gee where did ya get for that? The Dillon website has it listed at $18.95 I know it will be faster than the RCBS as it has auto-indexing. And if get the shell case feeder it will go faster. I gues I am just a stickler for clear and orderly instructions... JJJ-D :ph34r: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blastmaster Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 I suggest the OP goes back to his RCBS press and puts the 650 back into its box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Canyon Kid #43974 Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 Having never reloaded before, I purchased everything I needed including bullets, brass, powder, and a SDB from Dillon. Set it up and was making rounds within about an hour and a half after I opened the box. Later I purchased a 650 and was making rounds two hours after opening the boxes. It took a bit longer because of the several options I added including case feeder, powder checker, etc. I had done about 2 months of evening reading reloading manuals before I made my first order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge Harshly, SASS 45531L Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 J. J. J. as many cowboys as you know, one of them must have a Dillon 650 and would be glad to help you over your problem areas. If you can't get over this small hurdle, do as Dubious Don said. But instead of shipping it to him, send it to me and I will pay the shipping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivory Jack, #8534 LTG Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 JJJ - Just say the word and I'll bring you my 550B and all the conversion kits and toolheads (complete with dies) you'll ever need and then I'll bolt it down for you. Heck, I'll even take that bad ol' 650 off your hands at no charge... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Flimshaw Sass# 73310 Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 It's no good, box it up and send it to me, you don't want that piece of junk, i'll even pay the freight! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother King, SASS #69031 Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 After using that POS flip tray and manually filling primer tubes I went on EBAY and found a RF100. If I didn't have that magical machine I'd probably quit loading altogether and shoot less. Tell you what= I've got a heck of a deal on a primer flip tray and at least 1/2 doz. tubes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal TKD, Sass # 36984L Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 After using that POS flip tray and manually filling primer tubes I went on EBAY and found a RF100. If I didn't have that magical machine I'd probably quit loading altogether and shoot less. Tell you what= I've got a heck of a deal on a primer flip tray and at least 1/2 doz. tubes. I got mine off the SASS wire, fellar must have been mental to sell it. I guess I will get in line for that 650 that you aint gonna like, I will pay shipping and toss in $10 bucks. I have 2 of them but could use one for, well heck not sure but I can find a use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 I bought the video. It made the initial setup totally painless. I also bought the strong mount, which I strongly recommend. A big "AMEN" to the strong mount! I used my 550 for over ten years before buying the Strong Mount. Amazing difference in stability and "handiness." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jailhouse Jim, SASS #13104 Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 JJJ, don't dispair, you will like it eventually, maybe. I had no problem with the directions and had bolts and such laying around to use to mount the strong mount. I personally, don't care for mine for making BP rounds even with all the bells and whistles on it. I know everyone thinks they are the holy grail of reloaders but it is to each person's opinion, it's just not mine. (I will be flamed for that I am sure) I have used a Lee Turret Press with an auto index for over thirty years with great success. The Dillon works good, just not great. I will give the 650 something though, it can really spit out rounds for the slide guns fast when a body needs a lot of ammo made up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlicLee SASS #16638 Life Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 YOU are right, it is very difficult to understand the instructions, the company does it on purpose to make you buy the video, then the video makes you call up for help, the other company is probably better for you, tell you what IM going to do for you, as a favor one cowboy shooter to another, Ill buy the machine from you for $200 + $25 shipping and send it to a specialist to figure out, is it worth that much? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Man Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 You have one of the very best machines on the market today. Often when going from a single stage press to a auto style can be confussing at first. Sit back and relax and take it a step at a time. I have one of the very first 650s and I would not even guess how many rounds I have loaded on it. Texas Man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusty Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 J. J. J., I guess I was extremely lucky. Didn't have trouble with the instructions or understnading how the 650 worked. I'd used a RCBS Rock Chucker for 20+ years before getting the 650--I was a purest! Wish I'd gotten the 650 way back when. Oh, I used my 35 year old $1.89 RCBS plastic primer flip tray. The Dillon didn't notice the difference. As others have mentioned, if you decide you don't want it I'll be happy to take it off your hands. However, don't hesitate to call Dillon. Those folks are really helpful. My $.02 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buck D. Law, SASS #62183 Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 I love my 650...but with that said, the instructions for the 650 leave a fair amount to be desired. It's been a few years since I set up mine and the fine details don't come to me, but I remember the instructions referring to another section listing the page number...and it turned out that the page number listed was incorrect. I seem to recall that the page number did not exist at all…which was a pretty serious clue that something was up. Being in the printing business and knowing how easy this is to correct, I contacted Dillon and made them aware of the discrepancies (yes, there were a few). Basically the reaction I got was: What do you need instructions for? We can answer any questions you have. The 650 is a great machine, but if you have a primer that fails to go in, when it drops onto the slide, the primer is likely to do a replay of "the agony of defeat" from the Wide World of Sports and end up somewhere on the loading table or in the floor…where it will mingle with the spent primers that failed to go into the collection cup. Both the slide problem and the collection cup problem could be pretty easily corrected by Dillon. The slide problem can be "fixed" by the user with a little tape and a piece of paper. At the time, I was amazed to find on reloading forums that the little imperfections with the design had been known to users for many years…yet still had not been addressed by Dillon. To their credit, Dillon will replace ANYTHING including what some other reloader manufacturers call "wear parts" tee-totally free including shipping, but for the life of me I do not understand why they do not make their manuals more user friendly and change the design on two plastic parts that have given problems forever and ever…amen. Sorry, I fell into a little Randy Travis there. Once a 650 is set up, get ready to rock and roll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jittery Jim Jonah, SASS #64913L Posted April 18, 2011 Author Share Posted April 18, 2011 Thanx pards for all the kind offers to rid me of this kink in my reloading room.... It ain't gonna happens tho, It has a home and will get used a lot along with my other three presses, I just find it ironic that such a great American company with a fantastic reputation can't find someone who can write a decent 'how-to' manual... Besides, I didn't just fall off the turnip truck ya know... JJJ-D :ph34r: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chas B. Wolfson, SASS #11104 Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 Besides, I didn't just fall off the turnip truck ya know.. Okay, so it was a couple of weeks ago. Kinda thought the swelling of your head would have gone down by now though. Chas B. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jittery Jim Jonah, SASS #64913L Posted April 19, 2011 Author Share Posted April 19, 2011 Besides, I didn't just fall off the turnip truck ya know.. Okay, so it was a couple of weeks ago. Kinda thought the swelling of your head would have gone down by now though. Chas B. That's right, I been around the farm a few times now.... Found a great place on You Tube with lots of nice videos. I be makin' a list of stuff I need now! JJJ-D :ph34r: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blastmaster Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 Thanx pards for all the kind offers to rid me of this kink in my reloading room.... It ain't gonna happens tho, It has a home and will get used a lot along with my other three presses, I just find it ironic that such a great American company with a fantastic reputation can't find someone who can write a decent 'how-to' manual... Besides, I didn't just fall off the turnip truck ya know... JJJ-D :ph34r: Hold on!!! Thats the problem!! YOU READ!! The rest of us looked at the pictures and sorta/kinda figured it out. A few broken and missing parts later, we were up and run'n and happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deja Vous Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 btt.. JJJ's ios a SASS brother to me.. and I LOVE DILLION.. so I am bringin this back to the top for you guys to pick on him a bit more.. lol.. In good humor of course.. cuz I am enjoyng this so much.. Please contnue in great humor, and good advice.. loll I love it.. You are the best.. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John E. Law Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 JJJ, As someone has already said get a pard who has been loading on one to assist you with setting yours up and you will be a believer. I now load 5 different loads on 5 seperate toolheads. I load 2 cowboy rounds one pistol and one rifle. I load 2500 of one and then switch the head and load 2500 of the other. I will do this on and off over a single weekend usually in one day about every 3 months. You can really pump out a large quantity of high quality rounds in a short time with a properly set up 650. I had an issue with the pistol toolhead smashing the shells. I re-adjusted it multiple times with no success. I called Dillon and they asked me what I thought the problem was. I told them I believed that this particular toolhead was milled just slightly off the I had a new one 2 days later. I re-set the dies in the new head and have been rocking the rounds out ever since. The loader is awesome and the service is even better. JJJ Stick it out, get your set up, and you will be very happy. Also, Uncle Buck, Go on YouTube and do a search for the spent primer tray fix. I did it to mine and now I don't use the cup anymore. My spent primers fall down a tube through the bench and into a trashcan. This is the best fix out there! PM me and I can sent you the E-mail I have on it. JEL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B. T. Blade, SASS #35685Life Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 JJJ, As a friend, I have to tell ya - don't take IJ up on his offer to trade for that 550......it's not in your best interests. Trade the 650 to me for a Hornady Lock 'n Load complete w/45 AND 9mm dies! This little press works great without takin' up HALF the room of a 650. Plus, it has a limited amount of moving parts, so's not to confuse you. You'll thank me for it........and my 650 will have someone to talk to! Trust me......... Seriously.......should have hollered and we'd a been out there to help. When I first got my 650 I assembled it via the video, but didn't feel comfortable about it. (Had only loaded on a rock chucker prior). Mentioned it at the next match and before I knew it, Twitchy Finger and Jackpot Jude drove all the way down from Barstow to help me out. (I'm in IRVINE!) They checked my setup, made an adjustment or two and got me on my way. A few months later I had another issue. Red Haymaker came over and helped me straighten things out. If anyone ever wonders why I say "Join for the shootin', but STAY because of the people" these are just two of the reasons. Anyway, you're not short on Pards that will lend a hand. You can alo call Dillon and they'll walk you through......and......Brian Enos has a reloading forum that addresses Dillon issues as well: Brian Enos Forums Good luck. Bet you'll be runnin' smooth before you know it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cactus Cris SASS#2790 Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 Just a quick note on the primer warning device---You DO NOT need to tighten up the screw that holds it onto the tube. I have 4-5 of these that were brought into the store that were broken because the user tightened them to the point of breaking the plastic housing. All they need to do is "SIT" on top of the tube- they dont go anywhere if you dont tighten them down. FWIW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcadia Outlaw, SASS 71385 Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 Got mine rocking and rolling pretty quickly and did not find the investment of a $3 primer flip tray to be that painful. Best buy I have ever made in the game. Mileage always varies. yeah me too,I had mine runnin in 2-3 hrs including work bench for it,I love mine. regards AO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jittery Jim Jonah, SASS #64913L Posted May 8, 2011 Author Share Posted May 8, 2011 See first post for an update... JJJ-D :ph34r: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusty Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 3J, I tried APP in my 650 only one time. It's just too "chunky" and messy in my opinion. It didn't meter any better on my RCBS powder measure either. I have had misaligned primers, even put a couple in sideways but never (visulise me knocking on wood) had one go off. Did you ever have someone who has had one for a while come over and look at it? Crusty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Rick, SASS #49739L Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 3J, I tried APP in my 650 only one time. It's just too "chunky" and messy in my opinion. It didn't meter any better on my RCBS powder measure either. I have had misaligned primers, even put a couple in sideways but never (visulise me knocking on wood) had one go off. Did you ever have someone who has had one for a while come over and look at it? Crusty The little APP I have loaded convinced me that FFFg granulation will work best. The FFg seems to chunk and bridge. You WILL love your 650, and you WILL curse it again. CR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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