Deadeye Dallas, SASS #60249 Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 This all started when one of our local matches set up an ironman stage. This stage required 4 pistols, 2 rifles and a shotgun. My AWA is usually my second rifle, but it is waiting on replacement parts that were robbed to fix another. I selected the most tested Taurus I had in my shop. It always functioned flawlessly. So off to the match I went with full confidence. Stepped up to the firing line fired first shot and the second one went under the carrier, locking up the rifle. When I got back to my shop I took it apart and set the magtube into the frame. http://i775.photobucket.com/albums/yy37/DeadeyeDallas/Mag%20tube%20mod/IMG_2030em.jpg This photo shows what I believe to be the problem of a round slipping under the carrier. The top arrow shows way too much space above the rounds. I have been tapping down to slightly bend this, but that doesn't seem to be near enough. When the mag is full and under the most pressure, it is easy to see how the round could ride over the top of the cartridge stop. Bottom arrow pointing to the cartridge stop area. I would like to see this at the bottom of the primer. Next week my new Miller tig welder should arrive. It will allow more precise welding especially on thin metal. I came up with this a contraption to crimp a small downward ramp on the top of the tube to remove some of the extra space. http://i775.photobucket.com/albums/yy37/DeadeyeDallas/Mag%20tube%20mod/1.jpg http://i775.photobucket.com/albums/yy37/DeadeyeDallas/Mag%20tube%20mod/2.jpg http://i775.photobucket.com/albums/yy37/DeadeyeDallas/Mag%20tube%20mod/3.jpg http://i775.photobucket.com/albums/yy37/DeadeyeDallas/Mag%20tube%20mod/4-1.jpg as you can see in the next photo the space is less on top of the case. http://i775.photobucket.com/albums/yy37/DeadeyeDallas/Mag%20tube%20mod/5.jpg My next post will show a modified cartidge stop. Hopefully this will be last fix and they can all go out to play. Deadeye Dallas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deputy Dangit Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 Is this limited to a few or do you see this with all of them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadeye Dallas, SASS #60249 Posted April 14, 2011 Author Share Posted April 14, 2011 Is this limited to a few or do you see this with all of them? I think at any givin time it could happen to all. I sure didn't expect it to happen on the one I used. By taking out the extra play it will sure lessen the chance it could happen. I know I am going to do it on all of them. Dallas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 Posted April 17, 2011 Share Posted April 17, 2011 Silly question, mebbe, but.... which Taurus is this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manatee Posted April 17, 2011 Share Posted April 17, 2011 Dallas: I can see your problem right away. Your bench is way way too clean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grouchy Greg, SASS#71981 Posted April 17, 2011 Share Posted April 17, 2011 My Taurus T-bolt is one of those that Dallas is working on. Two trips back to Taurus couldn't totally cure the problem of rounds slipping out of the mag tube and under the carrier, but it would happen a lot less frequently than when I first got it. I could actually get it through a six stage match without it jamming up that way. The last time a round jammed under the carrier was at the range one day when I was practicing. Now the funny thing is, it would only do it with live ammo. I've sat in the garage and cycled dummy round duplicates of the live ammo I use through it till my arms were ready to fall off, and I couldn't make it jam. The only difference between the dummies and live rounds is the weight, i.e., absence of powder and primer. I am still mystified as to why, but hope Dallas's fix will be the end of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Boy Posted April 17, 2011 Share Posted April 17, 2011 Dallas, isn't it always the case: Runs like a mustang, then ya lift up the saddle blanket and there's another glitch that slows that speed demon down to a stand still! At least it now appears another possible issue with the Thunderbolts has been uncovered... Thanks Pardner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bustin Caps Posted April 17, 2011 Share Posted April 17, 2011 Deadeye, I have a chance to buy a Tarus Thunderbolt at a good price and I would like to sent it to you for your upgrades. How can I contact you? Please email me your phone number at abarth750@att.net Thanks, Bustin Caps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 Posted April 17, 2011 Share Posted April 17, 2011 Aren't Lightnings fun! Just when one thinks the "problem" is solved, another problem crops up and what works on one gun doesn't always work on another of the same make and model. Lots of Lightnings have the problem described. That particular problem can usually be fixed by machining a new cartridge adapter. These are from a Uberti. The first photo is the stock adapter, very sloppy and rounds can jump the stop finger. The second is a new adapter that traps the rim. The third shows the two adapters as they would sit in the gun. Upper is the stock adapter, lower the new one. Tigging the stock adapter and reshaping it also works well. http://i228.photobuc...r1/P1020842.jpg http://i228.photobuc...r1/P1020853.jpg http://i228.photobuc...r1/P1020789.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadeye Dallas, SASS #60249 Posted April 18, 2011 Author Share Posted April 18, 2011 Aren't Lightnings fun! Just when one thinks the "problem" is solved, another problem crops up and what works on one gun doesn't always work on another of the same make and model. Lots of Lightnings have the problem described. That particular problem can usually be fixed by machining a new cartridge adapter. These are from a Uberti. The first photo is the stock adapter, very sloppy and rounds can jump the stop finger. The second is a new adapter that traps the rim. The third shows the two adapters as they would sit in the gun. Upper is the stock adapter, lower the new one. Tigging the stock adapter and reshaping it also works well. http://i228.photobuc...r1/P1020842.jpg http://i228.photobuc...r1/P1020853.jpg http://i228.photobuc...r1/P1020789.jpg It Looks like Uberti did their homework. I wish that part could be used in the Taurus and AWA rifles. Dallas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 It Looks like Uberti did their homework. I wish that part could be used in the Taurus and AWA rifles. Dallas Uberti??? I made the replacement parts along with several others in the gun. As the gun came from Uberti it wouldn't fire two rounds in a row out of the box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrangler Jones, SASS # 64178 Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 My Taurus T-bolt is one of those that Dallas is working on. Two trips back to Taurus couldn't totally cure the problem of rounds slipping out of the mag tube and under the carrier, but it would happen a lot less frequently than when I first got it. I could actually get it through a six stage match without it jamming up that way. The last time a round jammed under the carrier was at the range one day when I was practicing. Now the funny thing is, it would only do it with live ammo. I've sat in the garage and cycled dummy round duplicates of the live ammo I use through it till my arms were ready to fall off, and I couldn't make it jam. The only difference between the dummies and live rounds is the weight, i.e., absence of powder and primer. I am still mystified as to why, but hope Dallas's fix will be the end of it. Weight isn't the only consideration. Firing a live round will send a significant vibration through all the steel parts. That piece of metal at the opening of the mag tube looks pretty thin, and firing several rounds, on top of whatever pressure the mag spring is exerting, could be enough to deform it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadeye Dallas, SASS #60249 Posted April 19, 2011 Author Share Posted April 19, 2011 Uberti??? I made the replacement parts along with several others in the gun. As the gun came from Uberti it wouldn't fire two rounds in a row out of the box. I should have know better, great job. I thought maybe it was a part from their Lightning 2. Dallas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadeye Dallas, SASS #60249 Posted April 19, 2011 Author Share Posted April 19, 2011 Cartridge stop has had metal added. See photo. Crimp seems to take up the extra space, by the way crimp is about 3/4 inch long with a downward taper. This also strengthens the metal at that point. will post what happens when the timer goes off, that seems to bring out the worst possible outcome. http://i775.photobucket.com/albums/yy37/DeadeyeDallas/Mag%20tube%20mod/DSC_0900.jpg Dallas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 I should have know better, great job. I thought maybe it was a part from their Lightning 2. Dallas The factory part shown is from a Lightning 2. It is better than the original, but still has a few items that need attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadeye Dallas, SASS #60249 Posted April 19, 2011 Author Share Posted April 19, 2011 The factory part shown is from a Lightning 2. It is better than the original, but still has a few items that need attention. See the photo I posted while you were posting. I think it will work. It needs to be simple and reliable, so these guns can get done and out to PLAY. http://i775.photobucket.com/albums/yy37/DeadeyeDallas/Mag%20tube%20mod/DSC_0900.jpg Deadeye Dallas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shenny Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 Deadeye also has my Thunderbolt. I remember that someone posted 2 or 3 years ago, that he took a tubing shrinker and reduced the size of the magazine tube until it almost touched the rim. Then he centered it and filled the outside of the tube with an industrial filler called Delrin, I think, and this solved his problem. I am waiting for Deadeye to get to mine so I can play with the Schofield ammo that I use in my "spur" marlin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadeye Dallas, SASS #60249 Posted April 20, 2011 Author Share Posted April 20, 2011 Loaded the tube full to have max pressure on stop. It worked, a little too good about every 6 would not allow one on carrier. This is good , another stroke or two of the file and should be ready for a video. Dallas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Boy Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 ... another stroke or two of the file and should be ready for a video. Dallas, I got a front row seat, popcorn drenched in butter and an ice cold soda. Am going to like this video! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadeye Dallas, SASS #60249 Posted April 21, 2011 Author Share Posted April 21, 2011 Here is the video of the test firing after the cartridge stop and mag tube were modified. I know it looks a lot like some of the other videos, but there are twelve shots fired. Still no timer going off, but I believe I have got it to the point where it can be trusted at a match. One still has to remember this, rifle like all lightning rifles, need to have the pump pulled all the way back and pushed all the way forward. I know this sounds real basic, but watching people trying to go fast push the pump back forward without coming all the way back. The last 1/8 inch is when carrier lifts the round and aligns with the chamber. If it is not pointed at the hole it won't go in. Now back to all the rest of the guns I have left to finish, I took in quite a few because I needed a good sampling as to what was happening with this rifle. You sure can't judge them by one or two. I believe I have been able to take care of the major problems associated with this rifle. I am going to work as fast as I can to get them caught up. This means I will not be shooting until you guys are shooting. Hope you guys have enjoyed this endeavor. Deadeye Dallas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deputy Dangit Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 Thanks for all the work. I am like a kid waiting for Christmas morning to get mine back. It looks like you sure did a fine job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muleshoe Bill SASS #67022 Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 Since I do not have one of these beast.. I was wondering, if turning an insert that would press fit or heat press into the tube might cure the problem, OD to match the tube ID, and internally tapered (wide to narrow at the cart. stop)_with a winged extension to guide the cartridge from the tube? I could jump on the lathe and turn one if I had some measurements. I like a heat- cold fit as this would eliminate any welding and a drop or two of red locktite bolt sealant would lock it all up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widder, SASS #59054 Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 DD: it looks like you were individually pulling the trigger for some of the first few shots and then those last few appeared to be slam-fired. Looks like you got your timing REEEEEEEL GOOOOOD! Congrats. ..........Widder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadeye Dallas, SASS #60249 Posted April 21, 2011 Author Share Posted April 21, 2011 The Taurus and AWA rifles will not easily work with a tube like the one Larsen posted for the Uberti. It needs cut outs for the cartridge stop and for the bolt to hold round during firing. It might could be made to work, the crimp worked so well that I had to file down a lot of my weld on the stop. I will give this some thought. I am already doing about four different mods to them, the crinp seemed fast and simple. Thanks for your offer. Dallas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadeye Dallas, SASS #60249 Posted April 21, 2011 Author Share Posted April 21, 2011 DD: it looks like you were individually pulling the trigger for some of the first few shots and then those last few appeared to be slam-fired. Looks like you got your timing REEEEEEEL GOOOOOD! Congrats. ..........Widder You are right Widder, I mixed it up for demonstrating the mod works either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Boy Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 Dallas, sure is easier racking the forearm with the tang sight removed, isn't it? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Coast Ghost Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 Cartridge stop has had metal added. See photo. Crimp seems to take up the extra space, by the way crimp is about 3/4 inch long with a downward taper. This also strengthens the metal at that point. will post what happens when the timer goes off, that seems to bring out the worst possible outcome. http://i775.photobucket.com/albums/yy37/DeadeyeDallas/Mag%20tube%20mod/DSC_0900.jpg Dallas Can this part be added to the existing feed tube by modifying the end and tigging it on? Is the crimp method the only and best way to fix the under feed? Seems to me a new, improved style, mag tube may be the best overall fix for another one of the Taurus problemds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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