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Coalman

Is a hat required

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Four pages on hats. Damn. Must be raining all over the country.

 

The short answer is a pard doesn't have to wear a hat (except for 2 categories) but when in Rome he ought to wear a Roman hat.

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Four FIVE pages on hats. Damn. Must be raining all over the country.

 

The short answer is a pard doesn't have to wear a hat (except for 2 categories) but when in Rome he ought to wear a Roman hat.

 

shorter answer:

...a pard doesn't have to wear a hat (except for 2 categories) but when in Rome he ought to wear a Roman hat.

:P

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Oy...

 

Again, if you're playing an Indian...you'd still feel they should wear a hat...?????

 

And again, you are pushing your views onto others...that are playing the game the way they want...legally.

 

:FlagAm:

 

I pretty much agree with everything you are saying. But the sticker for me is that Coalman isn't "playing and Indian". He isn't playing anything at all. He is playing, 'what is the absolute minimum effort I have to put into an outfit'. Yup, that is legal. Just a personal thing with me. Something I would note in my head. Don't make him a bad person, don't make him a good person. Not something that is going to take away from my day shooting or something that is going to cause me to make comments to him. Just a piece of information about him I keep.

 

That being said, I think, left alone and not harassed and bullied, most shooters who start out for one reason (competition, period clothing, western fantasy...whatever) tend to grow to enjoy the other aspects of the game. We need to encourage that enjoyment of all the aspects and not beat people up over it.

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shorter answer:

...a pard doesn't have to wear a hat (except for 2 categories) but when in Rome he ought to wear a Roman hat.

:P

YEE HAW!!!!! pretty wordy there PW! I'm going to a cowboy shoot tomorrow... Think I'll forgo my straw hat, (in view of the weather, and space being at a premium, I don't carry TWO)... don't think I'll even shoot (since I've been in Jersey and they frown on immigrants with guns), but I'll bet next week's wages I'll have fun... and maybe even meet another heathen or two without a hat!

 

This subject's been beat to the condition of this buffler! Someone once sent me a picture to describe who he was talkin' to when trying to explain the rules to a certain individual... unfortunately, I had to agree. I see fit now to share that portrait with the rest of ya'll.

 

One thing I've learned about Americans... (having been one all my life), is that we're generally a fiercely independent bunch... but there are, scattered amongst us, those that would have us all conform to their ideaology, and that would be a sad state of affairs. There is absolutely, no good reason to foist our personal preferences on what consitutes enjoyment of this game off onto others. As to sunburn, brass burns and other rational for the wearing of a hat along with other offered advice... sometimes the lessons learnt of personal experience are those remembered longest. (And by the way... NOT ONE of you mentioned the best reason for wearin' a hat if you shoot a top-eject lever... I sometimes recover more of my brass from the brim that the brass collectors bother to bring to the unloading table)!

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I pretty much agree with everything you are saying. But the sticker for me is that Coalman isn't "playing and Indian". He isn't playing anything at all. He is playing, 'what is the absolute minimum effort I have to put into an outfit'. Yup, that is legal. Just a personal thing with me. Something I would note in my head. Don't make him a bad person, don't make him a good person. Not something that is going to take away from my day shooting or something that is going to cause me to make comments to him. Just a piece of information about him I keep.

 

That being said, I think, left alone and not harassed and bullied, most shooters who start out for one reason (competition, period clothing, western fantasy...whatever) tend to grow to enjoy the other aspects of the game. We need to encourage that enjoyment of all the aspects and not beat people up over it.

 

I agree with what you said. And in my head...I would make a note of those that make notes in their heads about someones choice of clothing...

 

Now just outta sick curiosity, exactly what would be that piece of information that you'd keep about him?

 

Cheers!

Phantom

:FlagAm:

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After reading five pages on this topic, the majority of the responders are saying pretty much the same thing, aren't they? Kinda like the Department of Redundancy Department. I mean, we could take all five pages of replies on this post and condense everything on a 3"x5" card. :wacko:

 

Bottom line...no one is making you wear a hat. Forget about it. Go shoot. Have fun.

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I agree with what you said. And in my head...I would make a note of those that make notes in their heads about someones choice of clothing...

 

Now just outta sick curiosity, exactly what would be that piece of information that you'd keep about him?

 

Cheers!

Phantom

:FlagAm:

 

 

I would note that he's not fond of punctuation. ;)

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I have always played this game my own way. Back when I started it was belts, zipper pants and shirts with collars that were frowned upon by some. I couldn't find a ban on these things in the rules. Plenty of westerns had people wearing belted pants and collars. The only way someone should even know if pants had buttons or zippers is if they were left open. I even had people comment on the fact that I would wear blue jeans with the hope I would "get with the program". I bought tan or black jeans.

 

Just because the handbook gave suggestions to cut off belt loops and sew on suspender buttons did not mean it was mandatory. It was like the costuming for CC was supposed to be the norm before there was a Classic category.

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I agree with what you said. And in my head...I would make a note of those that make notes in their heads about someones choice of clothing...

 

Now just outta sick curiosity, exactly what would be that piece of information that you'd keep about him?

 

Cheers!

Phantom

:FlagAm:

 

That he was the guy who never wore a hat. Like I said (or attempted to say in my own confusing way) just something I would notice that has no bearing on what kind of person he is. I tend to notice what people wear mostly because everybody is dressed up, so to speak. I notice things like that. What someone wears, the guns someone shoots, who is fast, who has a really good technique at this or that.

 

People who put a lot of time into their shooting show it. People who put a lot of time into their outfit show it. The same is true for people who don't.

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That he was the guy who never wore a hat. Like I said (or attempted to say in my own confusing way) just something I would notice that has no bearing on what kind of person he is. I tend to notice what people wear mostly because everybody is dressed up, so to speak. I notice things like that. What someone wears, the guns someone shoots, who is fast, who has a really good technique at this or that.

 

People who put a lot of time into their shooting show it. People who put a lot of time into their outfit show it. The same is true for people who don't.

 

Wish I had the spare brain cells to devote to what folks choose to wear...or not wear...not that I would devote these spare brain cells to remembering what folks...wore...

 

:FlagAm:

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Aunt Jen,

 

First, let me thank you for your kind words. Heinlein readers almost always find themselves on common ground. I just wish more people had discovered his books as youngsters.

 

Diamond Dave,

 

You sound like a gentleman of the old school. You are much appreciated. I'll pass along your sentiments to my mother too. She'll be glad to know that here efforts to turn a young savage into a grown man are sometimes recognized. For myself, I treasure a comment she made a few months ago when she was gravely ill and had been in intensive care for months. She pulled the respirator mask down and said the only words she had spoken all day...she said, "I'm so proud of you." Whatever else I do in my life, whatever I have done, it has all been worth it for that moment. She is doing much better now and has gone home, nearly as strong as she ever was, which is great because I don't think we can afford to lose anyone like her. I may be prejudiced on the subject. :)

 

For those of my friends here who think this thread has gone too long, I'd point out that you still keep coming back...

 

So you must be getting something out of the discussion. I know I'm enjoying the give an take of differing viewpoints, argued passionately at times. I'd point out too, that if a pard only wanted to know if hats are required, then he could just download the rulebook. Or if he didn't want to do that he could just accept the first post that said "no" and go back to dry firing practice. I don't think the literal answer to the question is really why we're here. We're exploring, each in our own way, the facets or permutations of the question. It's not a philosophical question such as "If you were a tree, what kind would you be?", but it does speak to each of our views of what SASS represents.

 

Here is an opinion:

 

Coming from a military (and a police) background, I would assert that individualism is good, but an "anything goes" mentality will ultimately lead to a collapse of an organization. People who believe there is only one way to do things are nearly as bad in my mind as those who think anything goes, but I'm a lot more comfortable with people who recognize unwritten rules and codes than those who think themselves the center of the universe.

 

I don't want to be in a SASS where someone is scolded because they wear zippered pants. But, I far less want to be in a SASS where tie-die shirts and giant sponge rubber novelty cowboy hats are acceptable. Either extreme isn't conducive to the health of the organization. Just because something is legal doesn't make it right. I could give you dozens of examples where people slide inside the law/rules/regulations just to see how far they can push the line. They are poison for an organization because you can't write a rule/law/regulation that covers every possible situation. If you did, you'd stifle the creativity and spirit thats necessary for the organization to endure.

 

Feel free to point out where I'm wrong/misguided/prophetic/incontrovertible.

 

 

Thanks to you all.

 

Cole Hart

SASS #91420

aka

David Mullins

LTC, US Army

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Here is an opinion:

 

Coming from a military (and a police) background, I would assert that individualism is good, but an "anything goes" mentality will ultimately lead to a collapse of an organization. People who believe there is only one way to do things are nearly as bad in my mind as those who think anything goes, but I'm a lot more comfortable with people who recognize unwritten rules and codes than those who think themselves the center of the universe.

 

I don't want to be in a SASS where someone is scolded because they wear zippered pants. But, I far less want to be in a SASS where tie-die shirts and giant sponge rubber novelty cowboy hats are acceptable. Either extreme isn't conducive to the health of the organization. Just because something is legal doesn't make it right. I could give you dozens of examples where people slide inside the law/rules/regulations just to see how far they can push the line. They are poison for an organization because you can't write a rule/law/regulation that covers every possible situation. If you did, you'd stifle the creativity and spirit thats necessary for the organization to endure.

 

Feel free to point out where I'm wrong/misguided/prophetic/incontrovertible.

 

 

Thanks to you all.

 

Cole Hart

SASS #91420

aka

David Mullins

LTC, US Army

 

Well Said, Sir! In my opinion, of course!

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Aunt Jen,

 

First, let me thank you for your kind words. Heinlein readers almost always find themselves on common ground. I just wish more people had discovered his books as youngsters.

 

Diamond Dave,

 

You sound like a gentleman of the old school. You are much appreciated. I'll pass along your sentiments to my mother too. She'll be glad to know that here efforts to turn a young savage into a grown man are sometimes recognized. For myself, I treasure a comment she made a few months ago when she was gravely ill and had been in intensive care for months. She pulled the respirator mask down and said the only words she had spoken all day...she said, "I'm so proud of you." Whatever else I do in my life, whatever I have done, it has all been worth it for that moment. She is doing much better now and has gone home, nearly as strong as she ever was, which is great because I don't think we can afford to lose anyone like her. I may be prejudiced on the subject. :)

 

For those of my friends here who think this thread has gone too long, I'd point out that you still keep coming back...

 

So you must be getting something out of the discussion. I know I'm enjoying the give an take of differing viewpoints, argued passionately at times. I'd point out too, that if a pard only wanted to know if hats are required, then he could just download the rulebook. Or if he didn't want to do that he could just accept the first post that said "no" and go back to dry firing practice. I don't think the literal answer to the question is really why we're here. We're exploring, each in our own way, the facets or permutations of the question. It's not a philosophical question such as "If you were a tree, what kind would you be?", but it does speak to each of our views of what SASS represents.

 

Here is an opinion:

 

Coming from a military (and a police) background, I would assert that individualism is good, but an "anything goes" mentality will ultimately lead to a collapse of an organization. People who believe there is only one way to do things are nearly as bad in my mind as those who think anything goes, but I'm a lot more comfortable with people who recognize unwritten rules and codes than those who think themselves the center of the universe.

 

I don't want to be in a SASS where someone is scolded because they wear zippered pants. But, I far less want to be in a SASS where tie-die shirts and giant sponge rubber novelty cowboy hats are acceptable. Either extreme isn't conducive to the health of the organization. Just because something is legal doesn't make it right. I could give you dozens of examples where people slide inside the law/rules/regulations just to see how far they can push the line. They are poison for an organization because you can't write a rule/law/regulation that covers every possible situation. If you did, you'd stifle the creativity and spirit thats necessary for the organization to endure.

 

Feel free to point out where I'm wrong/misguided/prophetic/incontrovertible.

 

 

Thanks to you all.

 

Cole Hart

SASS #91420

aka

David Mullins

LTC, US Army

 

So is not wearing a hat at a shoot an example of where people slide inside the law/rules/regulations just to see how far they can push the line? I would have to disagree if you do.

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Wish I had the spare brain cells to devote to what folks choose to wear...or not wear...not that I would devote these spare brain cells to remembering what folks...wore...

 

:FlagAm:

 

Usually ends up taking the place of some other useful information like where I am in the shooting order, which gun do I shoot first, which sweep to shoot, where I put my car keys, whatever my wife asked me to to do before I left for the range. And I am really bad with names.

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Coalman

As has been said many times over the 5 pages "No you do not have to wear a hat unless it is specificly required for you catagory".

 

Cole Hart

Well said even if some folks still don't get your point.

 

For those of you that have tried to make this a safty issue, you do have a point but as it concens this specific question it has no bearing. There are established safty guidlines and when violated, those violating them should be delt with. Hot brass in an uncomfortble location well "You pays your money and you take your chances" don't break any safty rules and the reaction just might make a good video for AFV.

 

If someone wants to change the rules to require or not require a particular item of clothing, catagory, empty case left on carrier, just name a few then do the work to change the rule that you feel needs to be changed, added or deleated. Anything else is just hot air.

 

One last thought and I will get down off my soap box. If we all play be the rules and act like adults in person and on the wire we would have a more harmonus outcome.

 

TC

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<SNIP>

I don't want to be in a SASS where someone is scolded because they wear zippered pants. But, I far less want to be in a SASS where tie-die shirts and giant sponge rubber novelty cowboy hats are acceptable. Either extreme isn't conducive to the health of the organization. Just because something is legal doesn't make it right.

<SNIP>

Cole Hart

SASS #91420

aka

David Mullins

LTC, US Army

Well said sir, and for the most part I agree with you . . . especially the Heinlein aspects . .

 

However - I think your argument is stating two opposing and extreme positions, and not part of the OP. The

question asked was whether it is REQUIRED to wear a hat, and I think we all have seen that it is NOT required,

although many believe it should be.

 

There is no logical reason to think that complying with the rules and not wearing a hat is in any way leading

to the decline in "rightness" of cowboy shooting, but I do think that pressuring people to comply with unwritten

rules will.

 

Making a moral argument out of complying with unwritten rules is not appropriate, any more than saying that

a shooter is shooting loads at the minimum power factor, and any real cowboy would shun such things - even

if it is allowed by the rules, because it's not right.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm a hat maniac, I already own six, and am always shopping for another. I also will take mine off

on a hot day - if it makes me sweat too much or interferes with my shooting . . . because I am here to shoot,

not just to profile my manly figure and fancy clothes.

 

I think the OP is long since answered, most of us are just picking over the bones now . . . .

 

Shadow Catcher

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Gold Canyon Kid,

 

By itself I see nothing wrong with going hatless. I can think of a dozen examples of hatless styles that would be actually supporting the obvious intent of the rules stated in the rulebook. I can also think of a few examples of clothing that would slide inside the rules and be obviously outside the intent. I'll give a couple of examples...

 

Within the Spirit of the Game: #1 white peon pants(looks like karate pants), moccassins, a calico shirt and a red bandanna (vaguely southwestern indian look)or #2 plain white shirt with arm garters and pin strip dress pants from JCPenny or Goodwill with low quarter shoes and red suspenders (vaguely storekeeper/bartenderish. No hat in either example and either one would indicate to me that the individual was playing the same game as 99% of the people around him.

 

Not within the Spirit of the Game: #3 jeans with the legs pegged as in the 1980s (jeans are legal), a white button down shirt (white shirts are legal) worn over a red polo shirt (no rule against it and are we going to check peoples underwear?), topsiders with no socks (nowhere in the rules does it state that this is illegal and cowboys often went sockless) and finally no hat. The entire set is individually legal. Now if this is the individuals first shoot and they don't know any better, I think we'd welcome this reject from the frathouse as a fellow traveller and expect some effort from him on his next shoot. If after six months he is still styling the 1980s and not the 1880s, I'm pretty sure some of his SASS friends might make some wardrobe suggestions.

 

It is all a matter of degree. You don't have to spend a fortune to play the game, but I do think you have to play the game. Otherwise, there are plenty of places you can go to if you just want to shoot single action guns. Eventually you will know a members intent. Sadly, there are always a few people in any large group who think they are the center of the universe and everyone else should accommodate them. They are pretty rare and luckily the scolders are pretty rare in my experience as well. I don't know which group the OP falls into, (the fellow traveller or the center of the universe) just as I don't know the people he shoots with. He may have fallen into a nest of professional scolders for all I know.

 

The literal answer to his question is "no, hats aren't required". I just think the truest and best answer for the organization would be, "no, hats aren't required, but whatever you wear needs to be in the Spirit of the Game".

 

Cole

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Hello Cole,

 

I like the way you look at things.

 

It is unfortunate that there are some folks, who I believe, push the intent of our costuming just to pust other folks buttons.

 

Remember this, from page 3 of the shooter's handbook, "all clothing must be typical of the late 19th century, a B-western movie, or Western television series."

 

Enforce it folks! I believe a progressive penalty could be applied. After all appropriate clothing is required for all categories and failure to comply with category requirements earns you a penalty.

 

Regards,

 

Allie Mo

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Hello Cole,

 

I like the way you look at things.

 

It is unfortunate that there are some folks, who I believe, push the intent of our costuming just to pust other folks buttons.

 

Remember this, from page 3 of the shooter's handbook, "all clothing must be typical of the late 19th century, a B-western movie, or Western television series."

 

Enforce it folks! I believe a progressive penalty could be applied. After all appropriate clothing is required for all categories and failure to comply with category requirements earns you a penalty.

 

Regards,

 

Allie Mo

When SASS opened the B Western or Western television can of worms, the ability to properly control costuming went out the window. Remember, there is nothing that ties B Western or Western television attire to shooting B Western category. A whole lot of B western stars wore jeans, some kind of shirt and no hat just for example. Very few wore what our B Western category calls for. Almost anything a shooter wears can be shown to be identical to what someone wore in a TV western or B Western. So how do you propose enforcing the rule you quote unless you are planning to become Queen of the Clothing Police?? Hats are not required, it is not a big deal, probably less than 0.1% of male shooters and maybe 25% of lady shooters do not wear a hat. I always wear a hat and appropriate attire but if someone ops to not wear a hat, what is the big deal? I think all the clothing zealots should just chill for a while.

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Rules dont say you have to wear a hat in all categorys. And I do not wear one. I shoot frontiersman . Have shot this game since 2000.

 

These types of discussions makes it lots easer to move away from the sport.

 

Safety CRAP , wearing a hat aint got nothing to do with safety. Remember do gooders you can safety your self right out of a sport or job or what ever you are doing.

 

Mason

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Thank you Cole and Allie Mo,

 

It seems there is a group here that understands the spirit of the game, what SASS is and why it was formed, the importance of getting with it, and there are others who just don't want to be told what to wear.

 

It makes me wonder why they joined, knowing that period/western attire is a big part of what it's all about, but...

 

My feeling is that if someone is a habitual repeat offender, if he over time does not begin to wear attire that is a stated part of what SASS is all about, that if he detracts from the other 99% of members who are trying to get into the spirit of the 1880s/Western/Heritage aspect of SASS.......that the individual should be told by personnel at the club/match that it is important....graduating toward a bequest he wear SASS-appropriate attire.....graduating toward eventual refusal to allow him to participate until he can approximate the attire.

 

I think to state that it is an important part of SASS, as the Handbook does, in an society that was formed to connect with the old west, is inappropriate, unless it is enforced, somehow.

 

If there is no standard, even a vague one, if we don't draw a line somewhere, if we won't speak up, if we let individuals draw their own line in an extreme, which this thread keeps branching out to---and I'm not talking about whether or not to wear a hat or not---then we will have an idiosyncratic bunch of costumes running around with various shooting irons, and only a few apparent die-hards in actual old-west-ish clothes.

 

What would that be?

 

It would be a group I used to belong to when it meant something.

 

Aunt Jen

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When SASS opened the B Western or Western television can of worms, the ability to properly control costuming went out the window. Remember, there is nothing that ties B Western or Western television attire to shooting B Western category. A whole lot of B western stars wore jeans, some kind of shirt and no hat just for example. Very few wore what our B Western category calls for. Almost anything a shooter wears can be shown to be identical to what someone wore in a TV western or B Western. So how do you propose enforcing the rule you quote unless you are planning to become Queen of the Clothing Police?? Hats are not required, it is not a big deal, probably less than 0.1% of male shooters and maybe 25% of lady shooters do not wear a hat. I always wear a hat and appropriate attire but if someone ops to not wear a hat, what is the big deal? I think all the clothing zealots should just chill for a while.

What a contradictory bunch of... I do not find it a "can of worms." I love B-W stuff. I have no problem with minimal clothing. I do have a problem with outlawed clothing and accomodations when there are other alternatives within the rules.

 

I am getting sick of your digs. You just look for opportunities to criticize me. Please stick to what I have to say not me. "Queen of the Clothing Police" my... :rolleyes:

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Male shooters who want to remain hatless should start a new game.

 

Call it the We Don't Need No Steenking Hats Shooting Society.

 

Lady shooters may remain as hatless as they please.

 

I have a coupla dozen cowboy hats and if I owned SASS any male shooter who wanted to participate would have to own at least one. Just the narrow-minded view from my fat saddle...

 

Usually, I am pretty tolerant of others views. On this issue, not so much. I cannot understand why the refusal to conform to the image of the sport and just wear a dang hat.

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Male shooters who want to remain hatless should start a new game.

 

Call it the We Don't Need No Steenking Hats Shooting Society.

 

Lady shooters may remain as hatless as they please.

 

I have a coupla dozen cowboy hats and if I owned SASS any male shooter who wanted to participate would have to own at least one. Just the narrow-minded view from my fat saddle...

 

Usually, I am pretty tolerant of others views. On this issue, not so much. I cannot understand why the refusal to conform to the image of the sport and just wear a dang hat.

Let's see if I have this right. You want to ban some folks from our sport because they do not meet your ideas of what they should wear even if what they wear is perfectly legal?

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No, I want to add a rule that male participants must wear headgear, just like all males did in the 19th century. If a man won't wear a cowboy hat then wear a kepi, RR conductor's cap, derby, whatever. Wear a headband if ye are portraying an Amerindian. Just something. Bareheaded was seldom seen back then. So should it be in this game.

 

Just saying I would require it, if I had the power, but I never will so it's a moot point. Let's shoot. I will overlook your shameless bareheadedness if you will overlook my morbid obesity bulging over the gunbelt, also seldom seen back in them days.

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Male shooters who want to remain hatless should start a new game.

 

Call it the We Don't Need No Steenking Hats Shooting Society.

 

Lady shooters may remain as hatless as they please.

 

I have a coupla dozen cowboy hats and if I owned SASS any male shooter who wanted to participate would have to own at least one. Just the narrow-minded view from my fat saddle...

 

Usually, I am pretty tolerant of others views. On this issue, not so much. I cannot understand why the refusal to conform to the image of the sport and just wear a dang hat.

 

 

I will not even argue the historical. If you believe tha EVERYONE in the 19th century wore a hat EVERYDAY, bless you. Blind faith without a shred of evidence is amazing and I hesitate to question such blind devotion. But are you saying that EVERY SCENE in EVERY western has a hat on EVERY male actor? At some point, you have to ask the unconcious to wake up and talk reality.

 

Cheers,

BJT

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Five. I hear five pages. Do I hear six?

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These five pages, and perhaps six, are not about whether or not someone must wear a hat or not. The argument, really, I think, is much more general than that.

 

People keep taking us back to the topic of a hat or not (which is clearly not required), but the argument keeps drifting back to whether or not 19th century period attire, or B-western, or such, is actually required, or whether it should be required.....drifting back to more of a can-I-wear-whatever-I-want-or-not control issue vs. a comply with SASS attire as it's written in the handbook.

 

Some people are obviously concerned about having to wear cowboy clothes or not, and I find it quite surprising, actually, that anyone in SASS would worry over it, because they knew when they joined, and also on an on-going basis, that the clothing is as much a part of SASS as any shooting.

 

It's historical in nature. A connection to that era, a large part of our nation's history.

 

Aunt Jen

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These five pages, and perhaps six, are not about whether or not someone must wear a hat or not. The argument, really, I think, is much more general than that.

 

People keep taking us back to the topic of a hat or not (which is clearly not required), but the argument keeps drifting back to whether or not 19th century period attire, or B-western, or such, is actually required, or whether it should be required.....drifting back to more of a can-I-wear-whatever-I-want-or-not control issue vs. a comply with SASS attire as it's written in the handbook.

 

Some people are obviously concerned about having to wear cowboy clothes or not, and I find it quite surprising, actually, that anyone in SASS would worry over it, because they knew when they joined, and also on an on-going basis, that the clothing is as much a part of SASS as any shooting.

 

It's historical in nature. A connection to that era, a large part of our nation's history.

 

Aunt Jen

The only posters that keep going back to overall attire are the clothing zealots. This thread is about hats. If we kept to that issue, this thread would be less than a page long.

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I think a lot of you have a certain idea of what the actual dress was during the later part of the 19th century. These same folks like to focus on a particular segment of 19th century society.

 

Well folks...I'd sure like to hear from real experts..on what the norms where...in different segments.

 

Or are we just to present the image of a specific segment...

 

Yeah...that's what I thought...

 

:FlagAm:

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Phantom,

 

I'm not clear who you're talking about or what specific segment you're referring to. Help me out here. Specific charges or specific examples would make it clearer to me.

 

Cole

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BJT,

 

Respectfully, straw man arguments don't prove anything one way or the other. Other than the incontrovertible statement that anyone can go hatless, I don't really see what you're arguing for or against. Is it that you don't think someone should have a preference for hat vs. hatless? I'm really trying to see more than one side here, but pronouncements aren't arguments. This isn't a vote, the current rules are in place and the discussion I thought had moved on from the original question to how each of us sees the organization. Is it just a shooting organization or is there more to it, embodied in the way we look, play the game and treat each other?

 

I value a friend with strong opinions, he isn't apt to scoot when the world gets rough. But, I don't see the difference in the extreme that Lone Dog proposed and the rejection you fired off. I wouldn't vote for a hat required rule in general, becasue you're right, there were people who didn't wear hats and lived their entire lives in the old west. But, I don't think that is the point some others like Jen and Allie have tried to make. Lone Dog may have a crusty viewpoint, but if you read his profile, he has probably earned the right to a certain amount of crust (4th ID and 69-70 Cambodia). I've made a lot of "If I were king" statements in my life with the certain knowledge that it would never come to pass and well, lets just say that there are a lot of people walking around free who would be making small ones out of big ones.

 

I know you were trying to make a point, you weren't just name-calling like one (benefit of the doubt) gentleman has begun to do. But I'm not sure exactly what your point was. What is your view of SASS rules?

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I guess I'm in the "for the hat club" which only makes me in the minority here and that's ok, I've always been different. Maybe he or any others could shoot in shorts and tennis too, I see you are welcoming any option in. It would be really simple, put it in the match rules, enforce it. If you want to allow bare heads go for it. It won't happen on my range, rant over.

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These five pages, and perhaps six, are not about whether or not someone must wear a hat or not. The argument, really, I think, is much more general than that.

 

People keep taking us back to the topic of a hat or not (which is clearly not required), but the argument keeps drifting back to whether or not 19th century period attire, or B-western, or such, is actually required, or whether it should be required.....drifting back to more of a can-I-wear-whatever-I-want-or-not control issue vs. a comply with SASS attire as it's written in the handbook.

 

Some people are obviously concerned about having to wear cowboy clothes or not, and I find it quite surprising, actually, that anyone in SASS would worry over it, because they knew when they joined, and also on an on-going basis, that the clothing is as much a part of SASS as any shooting.

 

It's historical in nature. A connection to that era, a large part of our nation's history.

 

Aunt Jen

 

Aunt Jen, the sense that I got from most of the responses was "No, you don't have to wear a hat, other than for two specific styles of shooting. No one will force you to do that. But it somewhat spoils the Old West feel of events for us." It seems to be a matter of courtesy and helping set the feel and look.

 

 

 

 

I don't think anyone is making the argument that all men at all times wore a hat outdoors. But the customs of the day was that men wore hats outdoors. And the vast majority of the existing photos (see below for a few examples) support that. Yes, you can find photos to document that there were some men who sometimes didn't wear hats outdoors, but do you base your cowboy impression on the exceptions? Or on what would have been seen 99 44/100s of the time?

 

Chuckwagon, 1887

 

Look at the Deadwood townies on the sidewalk

 

 

Dodge City Cowboy Band, 1895

 

Just a curiosity, note the stripped pull-over shirts? sweaters? footballers jersys? the two on the right are wearing in this photo

 

Group of cowboys, 1905

 

I ran across a photo from 1864 or 1865, taken in a studio, of a group of 4 or 5 men wearing womens slat bonnets. Does that mean, since there is at least one photo of men wearing them, slat bonnets are appropriate attire for men? Or would men wearing them spoil the overall old western look? (I think Grizz would be cute as the dickens in one! :lol: )

 

All that said, there is a point in the historic/fantasy games where history and authenticity do end up taking away from the enjoyment of the game. I'm not sure that hoping that people dress as the vast majority of people did in the Old West is such a point. (obviously health or religious issues would trump the clothing guidelines, say if wearing a hat triggered migranes or seizures, or there was a specific type of hat required for religious reasons). I've heard other verses of this song sung in several other history/fantasy role play games. They always raise a lot of emotion, and sometimes bad blood.

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