What/how to clean guns

[boom pop]

bro if you have a black powder questiom pm fairshake and he will lead you right, he is not just a trigger puller but he is fanatical about the preservation of his weapons,

I've shot a few one matches using black powder substitutes. I've just clean the guns when I've gotten home using Hoppes.

 

Next month is my first 2-day (10 stage) match using the real heathen black powder.

 

Original Colt clones in 45 Colt.

 

Can I wait until Sunday afternoon to clean them?

 

Should I clean them after the first day?

 

Spray them down with something between stages?

 

What are y'all recommendations?

[Cemetery]

I have a pair of Ruger NV's that I go back and forth from smokeless and real black.

 

I use whatever lube I have on hand for the guts of the gun. Breakfree, Hoppe's, Gunbutter, etc etc....

 

Now, on the cylinder base pin, I use either Olive Oil, or Ballistol. Never have any binding issues since I've switched to either one.

 

The boolits I use are the 158grain Snakebit with a big wad of loob on it, so fouling is minimal.

 

Clean up is HOT water...dry patch...patch(es) with Windex w/Vingear...dry patch...patch damped with Ballistol.

 

Sometimes I feel stickiness on the hammer, so I use one or two drops of Gunzilla on each side near the hammer screw to unstick them.

 

That's been my dealin's for the past two years.

[Smithy]

I think that a lot of the disagreement comes from the manufacturers of the various products up to and including the guns themselves. If the fit and finish of one gun vs. the other was a bit rougher then one type of cleaning product may/may not work as well. Because I can't imagine something that's the bee's knees for most, being absolutely horatius for 40% of all others trying the very same thing. I mean, think about it. How could that be? I use Dawn soap and hot water because I heard long ago that that was the thing to do. I don't know what minority I'm in by doing so, but it works for me so I'm going to keep on doing it till something better comes along. I'm also a big fan of WD40 for all of my gun lubrication needs (I even have an air powered WD40 reclamation unit that filters used WD40 so it comes out good as new and ready to use again) and will continue to use WD40 until I see something better come along. Now I can suggest this plan to others or mearly state that that is what I personally do as they are free to do as they please, but do not tell me I'm going to cause grease balls (because I personally know better) or that it doesn't work on BP subs (because I personally know better). I kind of think that has been what has been going on. Personal preference should never become mandated, ordered suggestions to others because as I said earlier, ultimately it is up to the individual shooter to make his/her choice. Soap Box mode now off. Smithy.

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

The BP subs. all have one thing in common....They are sugar based

Cheers,

LG

 

OK folks, I WAS WRONG in that statement and I'm sorry

Respectfully,

LG

[ol poke SASS 57567]

Howdy Matthew,

 

On the second page of this topic! I am impressed!

 

IMO, more important than the type of gun is the type of LUBE! I shot the Ind. State 2-day match last year shootin' FCD (Goex). I shoot Big Lubes (PRS .45s and Mav Dutchman .44-40s) and believe I could shoot them for a week without cleaning. I did clean 'em Sat. night, more because my revolvers get slimey from all the lube. (For the purists...HOT water and Ballistol ONLY!) My rifle has a nice "lube-star" at the muzzle at the end of the day.

 

If'n I kin get a kitchen-pass for the three days, I'll meetcha at the "pass".

 

An' watcha mean by "2-day" shoot. Yer shootin' Friday's side matches aintcha? I kin almost picture a cleanin' party sitting around the campfire on Saturday night.

 

ol' poke

[Captain Woodrow Cahill, SASS # 54363]

Lumpy - in a scientific sense, your original statement is correct. Some of the subs use ascorbic acid in their formula, which is technically a reductone sugar acid. Cutting thru the technobabble, it's an oxidizer that provides oxygen to support combustion.

 

Oddly enough, it's also vitamin C.

[The Shoer 27979]

OK folks, I WAS WRONG in that statement and I'm sorry

Respectfully,

LG

Hey Lumpy I was hoping you would expand on the sugar part because I had never heard of it and I was just curious.

[Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283]

Howdy

 

Got enough answers yet? Yes, there are more ways than one to skin this cat.

 

Count me in with the Murphy's Mix crowd. Equal parts Murphy's Oil Soap, Rubbing Alcohol, and drugstore Hydrogen Peroxide. Yes, just plain water, or water with some soap in it will clan BP fouling, but with Murphy's Mix you don't have to worry about getting it out of the gun again. Just leave it in there, the oil soap will coat the mechanism nicely and prevent any rust from happening. Since you can just leave the M Mix in there, you can use it at room temperature, you do not need to heat anything to speed up evaporation. Makes it easier to clean the guns at the match away from a stove.

 

For lubrication, straight Ballistol for me. I leave a light coating in the bores and chambers, as well as a nice coating on the cylinder pin, and removable bushing if there is one. I shoot a squirt down into the mechanism when I am all done too.

 

As for cleaning during the match, your guns will let you know. I shoot Big Lube bullets that carry a huge amount of SPG in them. I can shoot an eight stage match without needing to give the guns any attention at all. If you use bullets with less lube on them, you may not fare as well. If they are starting to bind, wipe off the cylinder faces and relube the center pins.

 

No, you do not have to clean the guns right away. Black Powder is no where near as corrosive as it used to be when it was coupled with corrosive primers. If I shoot a two day match, I put the guns away dirty and shoot them the next day. You may not be comfortable with this, but it is what I do. I also seldom clean my guns the same day I shoot them. I try to get it done in the first week. But I have gone a lot longer without any rust.

 

Just got done with the torture test on my old Stevens hammer gun. Did not clean it once, all last season. Not once. Just pulled it out and shot it again. Friday night before the first match this year, I ended the torture test by giving it a thorough cleaning. NO RUST AT ALL! One year with out cleaning with real Schuetzen FFg. No rust.

 

Regarding opening your barrel/cylinder gaps...........please do not do this until you determine it is absolutely necessary. I shoot real Black Powder in Colts, clones, and Rugers. Not one of them has had the factory gap opened up. In my experience a gap of .005-.008 is plenty for shooting Black Powder out of a revolver as long as you use enough BP compatible bullet lube on your bullets. I actually believe that opening up the gap allows more fouling to escape and get blasted onto the front surface of the cylinder, causing more fouling to build up. Revolvers bind up with Black Powder for two reasons, just two.

 

1. Fouling blasted out of the barrel/cylinder gap gets blasted onto the cylinder pin and causes binding. This is the principle cause of binding. Most revolvers have some sort of raised bushing on the front of the cylinder. It does not matter if it is a separate bushing like in a Colt or clone, or an integral part of the cylinder. The purpose of the raised bushing is to deflect fouling away from the cylinder pin. The fouling gets blasted out of the gap pretty much as a flat disk shape. As long as there is a bushing in the same plane as the gap, it will shield the pin from getting fouling deposited on it. This is why the 1858 Remington design binds up so quickly, there is no raised bushing. This is also why the replica S&W break top revolvers bind up quickly with Black Powder fouling, the original gas collar design was modified when these guns were chambered for 45 Colt.

 

2. Some fouling may build up on the front face of the cylinder. If your bullets do not carry enough soft BP compatible lube, it is possible for this fouling to build into a hard crusty layer. If the layer builds up enough, it can cause the cylinder to bind as the crust tries to rotate through the barrel/cylinder gap. However, if there is enough lube on your bullets, the fouling will remain soft and gooey. It will not crust up, and any that builds up to any depth on the front face of the cylinder will be wiped off as it passes by the rear of the barrel.

 

If your gaps are in the .005-.008 range, and you use enough lube on your bullets, I strongly suggest not opening up the gap. However, if you have really tight gaps, down around .001 or .002, you may want to open them up to .005-.008. Just for fun last year I took my old Blackhawk to a match. I expected to have some binding because the gap is only about .003. Nope, it performed like a champ through a six stage match.

 

Lube is the answer.

[Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L]

My goodness - it's easy - so many make a mountain out of a mole hill. It's BP...not rocket science .

 

Hot water, swab the bore till clean, wipe down, spray Ballistol, wipe excess - done! .

 

Of course, if using subs - it just might be rocket science.

 

Too funny -

 

GG ~

[Crazy Mingo]

Heee Haaa Gunner..I told him ta tie a long rope on them and toss them in the pond in front of the cabin..

 

Heee Haaa Crazy Mingo

[Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L]

Heee Haaa Gunner..I told him ta tie a long rope on them and toss them in the pond in front of the cabin..

 

Heee Haaa Crazy Mingo

 

Hmmm - not a bad idea

 

GG ~

[Blood Washed SASS #79269]

Heee Haaa Gunner..I told him ta tie a long rope on them and toss them in the pond in front of the cabin..

 

Heee Haaa Crazy Mingo

But what about the slime from the moss in the lake? I know throw them in the deep end of the lake. right???

Blood Washed (who is takin in all the cleanin tips. and so far understands.........nothin)

[Cowboy Rick, SASS #49739L]

Matthew -

 

Yew dun went and started a war, a WAR ah tell ya. Whut fer wud ya do such a thang?

[Cypress Sam, SASS #10915]

Driftwood nailed it as usual. Just remember that the salts generated by black powder and the substitutes are soluble in water, NOT oil. You need to wash out the salts with hot water. Cold water will work too, but it takes longer.

 

After you clean out the salts, you need to dry the parts. Water displacing oils like Ballistol or WD 40 work for this, but so does heat and time. Make sure that the parts are dry and then lubricated, in that order.

 

All the other stuff just makes it quicker.

[John Boy]

Hey Matthew, well what are you going to do? You start a thread about a week ago and then leave town, except to peek in the window

Last Active:

User is offline Today, 05:26 PM

 

As a so called professing Southern Gentleman, the least you can do is Thank all the folks that replied to your post

[Bear Creek Reverend]

Howdy

 

Got enough answers yet? Yes, there are more ways than one to skin this cat.

 

Count me in with the Murphy's Mix crowd. Equal parts Murphy's Oil Soap, Rubbing Alcohol, and drugstore Hydrogen Peroxide. Yes, just plain water, or water with some soap in it will clan BP fouling, but with Murphy's Mix you don't have to worry about getting it out of the gun again. Just leave it in there, the oil soap will coat the mechanism nicely and prevent any rust from happening. Since you can just leave the M Mix in there, you can use it at room temperature, you do not need to heat anything to speed up evaporation. Makes it easier to clean the guns at the match away from a stove.

 

For lubrication, straight Ballistol for me. I leave a light coating in the bores and chambers, as well as a nice coating on the cylinder pin, and removable bushing if there is one. I shoot a squirt down into the mechanism when I am all done too.

 

As for cleaning during the match, your guns will let you know. I shoot Big Lube bullets that carry a huge amount of SPG in them. I can shoot an eight stage match without needing to give the guns any attention at all. If you use bullets with less lube on them, you may not fare as well. If they are starting to bind, wipe off the cylinder faces and relube the center pins.

 

No, you do not have to clean the guns right away. Black Powder is no where near as corrosive as it used to be when it was coupled with corrosive primers. If I shoot a two day match, I put the guns away dirty and shoot them the next day. You may not be comfortable with this, but it is what I do. I also seldom clean my guns the same day I shoot them. I try to get it done in the first week. But I have gone a lot longer without any rust.

 

Just got done with the torture test on my old Stevens hammer gun. Did not clean it once, all last season. Not once. Just pulled it out and shot it again. Friday night before the first match this year, I ended the torture test by giving it a thorough cleaning. NO RUST AT ALL! One year with out cleaning with real Schuetzen FFg. No rust.

 

Regarding opening your barrel/cylinder gaps...........please do not do this until you determine it is absolutely necessary. I shoot real Black Powder in Colts, clones, and Rugers. Not one of them has had the factory gap opened up. In my experience a gap of .005-.008 is plenty for shooting Black Powder out of a revolver as long as you use enough BP compatible bullet lube on your bullets. I actually believe that opening up the gap allows more fouling to escape and get blasted onto the front surface of the cylinder, causing more fouling to build up. Revolvers bind up with Black Powder for two reasons, just two.

 

1. Fouling blasted out of the barrel/cylinder gap gets blasted onto the cylinder pin and causes binding. This is the principle cause of binding. Most revolvers have some sort of raised bushing on the front of the cylinder. It does not matter if it is a separate bushing like in a Colt or clone, or an integral part of the cylinder. The purpose of the raised bushing is to deflect fouling away from the cylinder pin. The fouling gets blasted out of the gap pretty much as a flat disk shape. As long as there is a bushing in the same plane as the gap, it will shield the pin from getting fouling deposited on it. This is why the 1858 Remington design binds up so quickly, there is no raised bushing. This is also why the replica S&W break top revolvers bind up quickly with Black Powder fouling, the original gas collar design was modified when these guns were chambered for 45 Colt.

 

2. Some fouling may build up on the front face of the cylinder. If your bullets do not carry enough soft BP compatible lube, it is possible for this fouling to build into a hard crusty layer. If the layer builds up enough, it can cause the cylinder to bind as the crust tries to rotate through the barrel/cylinder gap. However, if there is enough lube on your bullets, the fouling will remain soft and gooey. It will not crust up, and any that builds up to any depth on the front face of the cylinder will be wiped off as it passes by the rear of the barrel.

 

If your gaps are in the .005-.008 range, and you use enough lube on your bullets, I strongly suggest not opening up the gap. However, if you have really tight gaps, down around .001 or .002, you may want to open them up to .005-.008. Just for fun last year I took my old Blackhawk to a match. I expected to have some binding because the gap is only about .003. Nope, it performed like a champ through a six stage match.

 

Lube is the answer.

Yep,,,lube is the answer,,,I use lubed wads in the 45 LC,,,,never have a problem with base pin or rust,,,,73 rifle,,,no problem,,,I use Thompson Natural Lube 1000 Plus on the guns,,,seems to keep it soft and never binds up,,,,use regular 200gr. blue lube boolets with lubed wads from Circle Fly,,,Clean up is easy,,,I use beer,,,works great,,,,have shot 10 stages,,,2 days,,,no cleaning,,,no problem,,,,have also neglected to clean them for a week between shoots,,,still, no problem,,,LUBE IS THE ANSWER,,,Bear Creek Reverend

[Smithy]

I agree that LUBE is the answer. I shoot 45 LC and use to shoot 300 grain thumpers (big lube of course) and had no problems out of my cylinder converted Ruger Old Armies. But, when I sold the ROA's in lieu of Ruger Bisley Vaquero's I realized (as I should have all along) that 300 grains is too much lead to be pounding my pistols and me with. I then purchased a Lee 200 grain, similar (or so I thought) build mold. What I ended up with was a smokeless grooved mold. What I then did was to purchase a Corbin knurling tool http://www.corbins.com/hct-2.htm It put a diamond pattern over the entire bearing surface of the bullet that I then pan lubed and sized so each bullet now has more lube than I ever could previously put in any lube groove. They work like a champ and fouling is at a bare minimum. It's more work than before, but since I love to reload and do so via single stage press I don't really mind too much. Smithy.

[Matthew Duncan]

Hey Matthew, well what are you going to do?

 

Thank y'all for the advise.

 

Butter bore the pins, no lube on the carrier

 

WD40 for any binding problems

 

Sonic clean (water base) when I get back home

 

Next problem ...

[Sgt. Hochbauer, SASS #64409]

Well here is another 2 cents worth......I shoot only Goex 2f for all of my guns..38 cal for my pistols and 44-40 for the rifle and 12ga shotgun.I can run an entire match and not have to touch the guns.I keep a can of Ballistol spray in my cart just in case I also use the Murphy's mix for cleaning.Generally I clean the guns when I get home or the next morning.I have tried all of the lubes mentioned but have now switched to a new lube. Frog lube........works like a charm.The Frog lube is BP compatible and also works great in my 1911,

 

 

 

 

 

Sgt H