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44/40 Lead bullet question


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I'm new to reloading 44/40 and would like to know if the .427 bullet is the correct size for a modern Marlin 44/40. Don't have the rifle yet (awaiting delivery) so I can't slug the bore. Will be shooting big lube B/P bullets and BP. I need to order the sizing die. Thanks

 

DMJ

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Howdy

 

You cannot say until you slug the bore. I have three antique rifles that have .427 groove diameter, an Uberti '73 that has a .427 groove diameter, and an Uberti Henry that has a .429 groove diameter. You can look on the Uberti website (assuming your rifle will be one of theirs) to see what they claim the dimension is, but as you can see, it can vary with them.

 

Now, having said all that, I used to shoot .427 bullets in all my 44-40 rifles, but when I got the Henry I compromised and bumped everything up to .428. However I am shooting Black Powder with soft lead bullets, and they are probably bumping up in the .429 bore of the Henry.

 

(oops, didn't see you said Marlin, but my advice is the same)

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Dee Mak cant give specific guidance on the Marlin but we size the Mav D at .427 for the simple reason it fits in everything we have come across so far. Rifle, pistol, modern or antique with any brand of brass. We also cast all our main match bullets dead soft with plain pure lead and though I havent mic'ed any fired bullets to see how much they have been bumped up to bore diameter by the BP thump accuracy has never been a question.

 

Of the 8 different 44 handguns and 3 different rifles I have had the pleasure of shooting the Mav D in none has ever given me any worries. I havent even gone to the trouble of slugging the new RM 44Spec 1860s, after shooting a about a 2" hole out of the x ring at 7 yards with 20 rounds it doesnt seem necessary.

 

Sizing dies are inexpensive but being a cheap yankee I'd wait till you get the rifle and slugged the bore before buying one.

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Recent model Uberti rifle, and I size my soft lead slugs to .428. Shoots well with that, and never a chambering glitch.

 

Uberti claims they cut the grooves to .429, but of course each pass of a rifling cutter is a different story.

 

Good luck, GJ

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Howdy, Pard,

My understanding is that the Marlin .44-40's had .427" groove dia. barrels. But you won't really know until you slug the barrel. Even if the barrel is larger, IF you use RCBS dies (not necessarily the "Cowboy" versions, you can always order a .44 Magnum expander plug and extra locking rings so you can change to a larger dia. bullet. Since you are shooting BP, you can probably use softer lead alloy and the bullet will slug up to fit the barrel anyway. Even with a .427" barrel, you may want to use .428" bullets.

 

Ride easy, but stay alert! Godspeed to those still in harm's way in the defense of Freedom everwhere! God Bless America! :FlagAm:

 

Your Pard,

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DMJ, I have an Uberti 66, an Uberti Cattleman and a Great Western II, all in 44-40. I cast wheel weight bullets and size to .427 and although none of these mic the same (.427-.429) I get excellent accuracy in all of them out to about 200+ yds with the revolvers and 600 yds. with the rifle. Even with ww bullets at BH 12 they will bump enough with either BP or smokeless as long as you don't use mousephart loads. Besides, firearm smoke is not supposed to smell like whatever that mouse ate for lunch. It's supposed to smell good!

 

Go ahead and slug the barrel as it will be an interesting endeaver for a newbie and satisfy your curiousity. Just be very careful NOT to break the rod you use to force it through and don't use a metal rod of any kind as it has a tendancy to deform the bullet and/or scratch the barrel (yes, Martha, even brass can do this). One thing I have learned after 40+ years of casting and reloading is that if you keep your mind and ears open and your mouth shut, you can learn a heck of a lot of stuff that is worthwhile.

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I have two Marlins of recent manufacture in 44/40 both of them slugged out to .428, You most likely will need to shoot .429s in your's, Like Trailrider said a 44mag.(429)expander plug will make getting them in the cases much easier.

Hopes this helps

Willy B'

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My Uberti 1873, Uberti Henry, and Ruger OM Vaqueros all slug at .429, so I use Big Lube Bullets sized to .430. Use the .44 mag expansion plug as stated above. It took me awhile to get my ammo tweaked to my (and my guns) liking, but all is good now.

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Marlin has made a lot of the latest 44-40 rifles with barrels as large as .430 so that the 44 mag bullets will also fit. The original 44-40 had rifles made with some as small as .425 by Winchester. I have a ideal loading tool from the 1800's that also contains a single cavity mold with a sizing die cut into the handles. It is sized at .425 The .427 is what the industry settled on and my guns from Uberti both rifle and revolvers slug out at this. My USFA revolvers also slug at this.

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Marlin has made a lot of the latest 44-40 rifles with barrels as large as .430 so that the 44 mag bullets will also fit. The original 44-40 had rifles made with some as small as .425 by Winchester. I have a ideal loading tool from the 1800's that also contains a single cavity mold with a sizing die cut into the handles. It is sized at .425 The .427 is what the industry settled on and my guns from Uberti both rifle and revolvers slug out at this. My USFA revolvers also slug at this.

 

Howdy, Pards,

 

Got that right! It's too bad, but the .44-40 barrel and cylinder chamber throats are all over the map. I slugged an original '73 that had a groove diameter of .434"! It was NOT worn. Probably one of the first barrels cut with a new cutter in the rifling machine. It would shoot .429" jacketed bullets fine. Put .430" hard cast in there and it was "minute-of-foot" at 10 yards! :wacko: Soft cast bullets and BP would allow .428" bullets to "slug up" and accuracy was improved (maybe 6" at 50 yds).

 

OTOH, When Ruger first brought out the Old Model Vaqueros in .44-40, they used the SAAMI standard for bullet diameter, which is .424-.427", and though they used .429-.430" barrels, the chamber throats were .425"! :huh::blink::wacko: Once the chamber diameters were increased sufficiently for Winchester brass with .430" bullets to fit, and hard-cast (BHN 17-22) were used, accuracy, even with the tight throats was excellent (1-5/8" groups at 25 yds). The bullets would squeeze down going through the throats, but reexpanded to fit the barrel. Dwell time is too short for the residual internal stresses in the bullet metal to dissipate as heat.

 

Once you sort out what works, the .44-40 is easy to load, and I love it!

 

Ride easy, but stay alert! Godspeed to those still in harm's way in the defense of Freedom everywhere! God Bless America! :FlagAm:

 

Your Pard,

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I slugged all my 44/40 rifles and pistols awhile back, You might find the extreme spread of bore sizes interesting.

Uberti 1860 Henry -----429.0

Uberti 1866 Carbine----427.0

Uberti 1873------------429.25

AWA Lightning----------429.75

Pedersoli Lightning----428.0

Marlin Cowboy----------428.0

Marlin Short rifle-----428.0

 

Ruger Vaquero----------429.25

Ruger Vaquero----------429.25

Uberti 1875 Remington--430.0 Early Navy Arms

Uberti 1875 Remington--428.5

I use .430 slugs in everything except the 66 Carbine which has a tight chamber it gets .428s.

Hope this is of some use to somebody.

Willy B'

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