Jump to content
SASS Wire Forum

Questions on California FFL rules


The Camarillo Kid

Recommended Posts

I know there are other posts on this topic, and a lot of links on the web, but I'm still a little confused by the whole FFL restrictions. I'm in California and looking to buy the full Cowboy 3-gun set (pistols, rifle, sxs) and have been combing the SASSWire Classifieds, and Gunbroker, and anywhere else I can think of, but I'm still confused about the rules for selling/buying firearms within California and across state lines.

 

Here's what I think the rules are - please correct me if I get anything wrong:

 

1) For the pistols - whether the seller is here in California or another state, I must go through an FFL, and can only buy 1 pistol every 30 days, however the good news is Single Action Revolvers, regardles of date of manufacture, are exempt from having to be on the California DOJ import list (http://certguns.doj.ca.gov/ ).

 

2) For the Long Guns (Lever Action Rifle and SXS Shotgun), if I find a seller here in California, and the firearm is more than 50 years old (1959 or older) I don't need an FFL (I think). But if the Long Gun is less than 50 years old, or the seller is from out of state (at any date of manufacture), then I must go through an FFL.

 

Am I close?

Link to post
Share on other sites

I can't answer question #2 but question # 1 sounds correct to me. If you purchase a SA revolver from out of state it must be sent FFL to FFL. At least that is the way my dealers have explained it to me.

You will find that some sellers on GB won't sell to California (and on the Wire) since it is a bit more of a hassle.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Howdy

 

You need to separate the requirements of your state of residence and the requirements of the Federal Government. No matter what the Federal laws say, you must also meet the requirements of your state of residence, and California is much stricter than most.

 

Some states do allow face to face transactions of handguns. I cannot tell you if California is one. Otherwise, Federal requirement is that all handgun transactions must take place in your state of residence. If you find a handgun in another state, it must be transferred to a FFL in your home state, AND you must meet any state requirements.

 

You are incorrect on the 50 year rule. This pertains to holders of a valid Curio and Relic License, which is a Federally issued license. Otherwise, 1899 is the cut off year for antique long guns that require no federal paperwork.

Link to post
Share on other sites

+1 on Buck D. Law's post. You would do best by not taking anyone's opinion about current gun laws in California except a current FFL in that state.

 

Driftwood, I think what Pecos is asking in question #2 is concerning a face-to-face transfer within the state. In our state of Nevada, that can be done no matter what the age of the gun. I, not living in California, will not give an opinion on what the rules are in that state. I would state that the supposed "complications" due to California's transfer laws from an ffl or individual from outside the state tend to be much less of a problem than most people make out.

 

Bystander

Link to post
Share on other sites

1) For the pistols - whether the seller is here in California or another state, I must go through an FFL, and can only buy 1 pistol every 30 days, however the good news is Single Action Revolvers, regardles of date of manufacture, are exempt from having to be on the California DOJ import list (http://certguns.doj.ca.gov/ ).

 

Correct on both FFL and exemption. The California code on Single Action Revolvers is:

 

12133. (a) The provisions of this chapter shall not apply to a single-action revolver that has at least a 5-cartridge capacity with a barrel length of not less than three inches, and meets any of the following specifications:

(1) Was originally manufactured prior to 1900 and is a curio or relic, as defined in Section 478.11 of Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations.

(2) Has an overall length measured parallel to the barrel of at least 7 1/2 inches when the handle, frame or receiver, and barrel are assembled.

(3) Has an overall length measured parallel to the barrel of at least 7 1/2 inches when the handle, frame or receiver, and barrel are assembled and that is currently approved for importation into the United States pursuant to the provisions of paragraph (3) of subsection (d) of Section 925 of Title 18 of the United States Code.

 

2) For the Long Guns (Lever Action Rifle and SXS Shotgun), if I find a seller here in California, and the firearm is more than 50 years old (1959 or older) I don't need an FFL (I think). But if the Long Gun is less than 50 years old, or the seller is from out of state (at any date of manufacture), then I must go through an FFL.

 

 

In California, all firearms must go thru a FFL(there are exceptions for really old guns). If you have a C&R FFL(they are available to the general public by application), you can buy guns in or out of state directly that are more than 50 years old.

 

FFL's in CA are known to be on the expensive side($75-100 per transfer not including the DROS fees are not uncommon). It would behoove you to contact a couple of local ones and see if you can work out a deal on 4 transfers, however it may be cheaper to shop locally.

Link to post
Share on other sites

You can also call the Ca. DOJ/Firearms unit and ask them.

Cheers,

LG

Not meaning to hijack the thread, but what are the current restrictions on buying ammunition in CA? I am getting back into shooting from a layoff of two years and do not know how it now affects me.

Thanks in advance.

Two Feathers

Link to post
Share on other sites

Not meaning to hijack the thread, but what are the current restrictions on buying ammunition in CA? I am getting back into shooting from a layoff of two years and do not know how it now affects me.

Thanks in advance.

Two Feathers

None, that bill was thrown out. And you cannot buy guns with JUST a C&R, you must also have a COE. I wish people would stop giving EXPERT advise on matters they arent EXPERT IN. Also, a "REALLY OLD GUN", is not an exemption, it must be a PRE 1898. And, if dealers in Ca are charging to much for you, maybe its because 1. if they recieve a gun from out of state without the correct letter, its a misdameaner (sp?)2. MANY people buy magazines like "Shotgun News" and feel they have every right to purchase firearms at those (being DEALER) COSTS. I dont know bout you, but I dont like to work for free.

hud

Link to post
Share on other sites

And you cannot buy guns with JUST a C&R, you must also have a COE. I wish people would stop giving EXPERT advise on matters they arent EXPERT IN. Also, a "REALLY OLD GUN", is not an exemption, it must be a PRE 1898. And, if dealers in Ca are charging to much for you, maybe its because 1. if they recieve a gun from out of state without the correct letter, its a misdameaner (sp?)2. MANY people buy magazines like "Shotgun News" and feel they have every right to purchase firearms at those (being DEALER) COSTS. I dont know bout you, but I dont like to work for free.

hud

 

Since this seems to be aimed at me I feel compelled to respond. You are incorrect, you do not need a COE to purchase with a C&R in CA. All a COE gets you is:

 

[PC 12078(t)(1)] The same C&R FFL holder with a COE is also exempt from the one handgun a month law for both C&R and modern handguns. [PC 12072(a)(9)(B)] You also would not need a handgun safety certificate when purchasing C&R handguns. [PC 12807(a)(6)]

 

My response was directly under the OP's question about Long Guns more than 50 years old, but I realize my post may be ambiguous: all Handguns(even C&R) in California need to go thru a Dealer('01 FFL).

 

Thank you for definition of "really old", it was defined earlier in the thread but I should have been more specific.

 

As to fees, I just didn't want the OP or anyone else to be surprised that they need to pony up more funds on the back end.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Although Hud seems like a curmudgeonly cuss, mainly because he is, when I lived in California, he was great to me.

 

If you're not too far away, his shop is more like a cowboy star museum.

 

Even after I moved from California, I bought items from him via his online auctions.

 

FWJ

Link to post
Share on other sites

Since this seems to be aimed at me I feel compelled to respond. You are incorrect, you do not need a COE to purchase with a C&R in CA. All a COE gets you is:

 

[PC 12078(t)(1)] The same C&R FFL holder with a COE is also exempt from the one handgun a month law for both C&R and modern handguns. [PC 12072(a)(9)(B)] You also would not need a handgun safety certificate when purchasing C&R handguns. [PC 12807(a)(6)]

 

My response was directly under the OP's question about Long Guns more than 50 years old, but I realize my post may be ambiguous: all Handguns(even C&R) in California need to go thru a Dealer('01 FFL).

 

Thank you for definition of "really old", it was defined earlier in the thread but I should have been more specific.

 

As to fees, I just didn't want the OP or anyone else to be surprised that they need to pony up more funds on the back end.

Are you actually a dealer or just play one on the wire? If you want to use a C&R in CA you MUST have a COE, or you will have to wait the 10 days like everyone else. Unless you know better then DOJ who is the body in charge of all this, and thats what they say. Course I've only been in business for 14 years, so what do I know?

hud (sorry if this sounds unfriendly, but I do get tired of all the misinformation put out on the wire)

Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh, and PM, I know someone with a pair of Vaqueros, action worked, consecutive #rd, but being a DEALER, I cant tell you about them. Call me, and I'll put you in touch with him

hud

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hud I am dumb what is a "COE"

Link to post
Share on other sites

and now back to our scheduled programming;

mike you didnt say where you are. ca is a pretty big state.

CC

Charlie - I'm in Ventura County.

 

Buck D. - thank you, I think I know where his shop is in Simi Valley, but it will be much easier to PM him now that I know he's registered here on the SASSWire.

 

Driftwood J. and igofast - thank you for setting me straight on the C&R rules for Long Guns.

 

All: Sorry for starting a small holy war in this thread, just trying to get educated before I make a costly mistake. I appreciate all the feedback and it seems the best thing to do is work closely with my local FFL and try for an in-state private party transfer to limit the transfer fees. Thanks again!

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hud I am dumb what is a "COE"

 

A COE is a California CERTIFICATE OF EXEMPTION which means the DOJ has taken your finger prints and done a back ground check on you. You must renew it every year for it to remain valid.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Diamond Fred, what is the process to get a COE just curious

Link to post
Share on other sites

Not to turn this political, but this kind of confusion, and misinformation, and conflict among "gun nuts" is exactly what the antis hope will happen with these laws. And that a lot of people will just say, "To heck with it! It isn't worth the hassle." and not by a gun. It is also why we need to not throw in the sponge and cede the State to the antis, but stay and fight the good fight.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Not to turn this political, but this kind of confusion, and misinformation, and conflict among "gun nuts" is exactly what the antis hope will happen with these laws. And that a lot of people will just say, "To heck with it! It isn't worth the hassle." and not by a gun. It is also why we need to not throw in the sponge and cede the State to the antis, but stay and fight the good fight.

that was kinda my point, being a gun dealer, I hear more stories from people on what you can and cannot do in Ca, I get a little wary from it. So again, sorry if I sounded raw, just tryin to set the record straight.

hud (I DID take the comment that Ca dealers charge to much a bit personal)

Link to post
Share on other sites

that was kinda my point, being a gun dealer, I hear more stories from people on what you can and cannot do in Ca, I get a little wary from it. So again, sorry if I sounded raw, just tryin to set the record straight.

hud (I DID take the comment that Ca dealers charge to much a bit personal)

 

Just as a word for the future, most of us that are curious about FFL fees don't blame the expense with the FFL holders/dealers, we're ticked at the politics involved that have driven them higher than other parts of the country.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey Hud, how about a face to face civilian transfer of a curio/relic rifle? I thought that, a while back at least, was legal, as long as the seller kept a record of the transfer?

 

Fillmore

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey Hud, how about a face to face civilian transfer of a curio/relic rifle? I thought that, a while back at least, was legal, as long as the seller kept a record of the transfer?

 

Fillmore

that falls into a grey area, in theory yea. but if ya ask DOJ they would tell ya to take it to a gunshop n do a private party transfer.

hud

Link to post
Share on other sites

I know there are other posts on this topic, and a lot of links on the web, but I'm still a little confused by the whole FFL restrictions. I'm in California and looking to buy the full Cowboy 3-gun set (pistols, rifle, sxs) and have been combing the SASSWire Classifieds, and Gunbroker, and anywhere else I can think of, but I'm still confused about the rules for selling/buying firearms within California and across state lines.

 

Here's what I think the rules are - please correct me if I get anything wrong:

 

1) For the pistols - whether the seller is here in California or another state, I must go through an FFL, and can only buy 1 pistol every 30 days, however the good news is Single Action Revolvers, regardles of date of manufacture, are exempt from having to be on the California DOJ import list (http://certguns.doj.ca.gov/ ).

 

2) For the Long Guns (Lever Action Rifle and SXS Shotgun), if I find a seller here in California, and the firearm is more than 50 years old (1959 or older) I don't need an FFL (I think). But if the Long Gun is less than 50 years old, or the seller is from out of state (at any date of manufacture), then I must go through an FFL.

 

Am I close?

Mike,

1) If you find someone close enough to you to meet up with at a gunshop and they own two pistols that you wish to buy, you can purchase and register both as Private-Party Transfers. If the pistols are sent into a gun shop from out of area (that would include in-state but far away...think from San Francisco to LA...in addition to out-of-state), then you are restricted to one gun every thirty days. And yes, most single-action revolvers are exempt from the CA eligibility roster. Just for the record, Private Party Transfer in CA is both parties showing up at the gun shop in person at the same time affecting the transfer and signing the registration documents.

 

2) You are correct on all counts here. Remember though that most lever guns older than 50 years (1961 is the cutoff date BTW) are probably not suitable for what we do to them. This does not apply to Winchester 1897 shotguns. I have on mfg'd in 1923 and it works great.

 

Hope that helps.

Link to post
Share on other sites

that falls into a grey area, in theory yea. but if ya ask DOJ they would tell ya to take it to a gunshop n do a private party transfer.

hud

They can tell you that but that doesn't make their answer correct. I've called the DOJ before and gotten wrong answers on several occassions. Pretty sad when the agency that is supposed to enforce the law doesn't even know the law.

 

If the firearm is a long gun and it was manufactured more than 50 years ago, CA law says it can be transfered without using an FFL. So if you want to sell a rifle or shotgun made before 1961, you can do so without involving your local gun shop.

Link to post
Share on other sites

They can tell you that but that doesn't make their answer correct. I've called the DOJ before and gotten wrong answers on several occassions. Pretty sad when the agency that is supposed to enforce the law doesn't even know the law.

 

If the firearm is a long gun and it was manufactured more than 50 years ago, CA law says it can be transfered without using an FFL. So if you want to sell a rifle or shotgun made before 1961, you can do so without involving your local gun shop.

 

 

Good information. I never new this about older long guns.

 

Thanks!

Link to post
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.