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CAS Long rang shooting question


Cowboy45

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Howdy Pards,

I would like to get started at shooting some long range, sounds like fun. Need some good info on a suitable gun. I think that the 45-70 (smokeless) is the caliber of choice but need some guidance on the rifle. I have been reading about the Uberti highwall. What is your opinion about accuracy and quality.

This CAS is all I can think about lately. I'm sixty-six, retired and having a ball. Catch you later on the trail or by the watering hole.

Hey thanks for all the expertice in advance!

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Howdy Pards,

I would like to get started at shooting some long range, sounds like fun. Need some good info on a suitable gun. I think that the 45-70 (smokeless) is the caliber of choice but need some guidance on the rifle. I have been reading about the Uberti highwall. What is your opinion about accuracy and quality.

This CAS is all I can think about lately. I'm sixty-six, retired and having a ball. Catch you later on the trail or by the watering hole.

Hey thanks for all the expertice in advance!

 

 

Ifn you decide to go black powder inc sells the Goex Black Dawg cartridges in 45.70, they are good rounds. I shoot them from my trapdoor and they do fine.

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Howdy Pards,

I would like to get started at shooting some long range, sounds like fun. Need some good info on a suitable gun. I think that the 45-70 (smokeless) is the caliber of choice but need some guidance on the rifle. I have been reading about the Uberti highwall. What is your opinion about accuracy and quality.

This CAS is all I can think about lately. I'm sixty-six, retired and having a ball. Catch you later on the trail or by the watering hole.

Hey thanks for all the expertice in advance!

Advice is really dependent on the range that your club shoots "long range" at; and, just what "Long Range" game you're looking at playing. We don't do silhouette at our club, but... some do. It's another option for more serious long range shooters... or those whose idea of fun is defined by that type of competition. For our club' long range side matches, it's between 100 - 200 yards, maybe a tad longer. Others have longer ranges, some shorter. I shoot both levergun and single shot "long range" matches... We sometimes even specify that it's Pistol caliber Long Range, or rifle caliber. Mostly for the single shot, it's a rifle caliber, tho' some clubs even include pistol caliber single shots. But, frankly, we do have them all that often. Another serious factor to consider is whether you reload or not.

 

For truly accurate long range guns, most competitors like the Shiloh or C. Sharps, Remington Rolling Blocks, and the clones by Pedersoli. There are also quite a number of custom makers out there producing high quality reproductions of the Winchester HiWall.

 

Frankly, your budget is probably more of a determining factor than the gun or cartridge.

 

The .45-70 is as good a long range round as any of the others you might be steered toward. However, if you're only thinking of this as a competition gun, you might be better off considering one of the smaller .40 caliber guns... .40-70, .40-65 or .40-60. You can get a lighter bullet with the same length:diameter ratio for excellent accuracy... plus you get somewhat reduced recoil, and a smaller case for shooting smokeless.

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I shoot the the 1895 Marlin Cowboy in 45/70.. with a barrel mounted ladderr sight. With My current loads I can shoot a 405 cast bullet with it very well out to 300+ yards. Never went further, my current range doesn't go any further then that. But it is a great gun... and I recommend it very much. Then again I'm A MARLIN NUT B)

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It really depends on what you want to shoot. If you want to shoot single shot categories either BP or Smokeless you obviously need a single shot. The Hiwall has been a great gun, as are the other single shots mentioned above. To a great extent you get what you pay for in terms of absolute accuracy. If you are not going to shoot real long range 600 plus yards any of the above will work. If you want to shoot at the real long ranges go to some of the matches and talk to those involved. Buy Venturinos shooting buffalo rifles book and read that as well

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Cowboy, I own and shoot regularly Uberti HiWalls, a 38-55 and a 45-70. The 38 is a max 500yd caliber. I shoot silhouette and can hit the Rams at 500 meters using black powder. The 45 will get you out to 1000yds.

If it was my 1st HiWall, buy the 45-70. Brass is more available - bullets are heavier and the velocity is higher than the 38-55. You will have no problems hitting the CAS 'long range' targets out to 300 yds with the 45-70. Also if you get the itch to shoot real Long Range, you have the rifle caliber to do it with. Either caliber, buy the HiWall with double set triggers and a pistol grip

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I have several 45-70s and love the round. I have also shot a Pard's Marlin 38-55 and really liked it. Don't know how good it is at the 500+ yards but it is good at 100+ It doesn't beat on you as much as loaded up 45-70 with 405s or 500s. Trust me a stout/factory 405 45-70 in a Marlin will knock the crap out of you

Jim

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I shoot several different lever and single shot long range rifles in various calibers. A larger caliber will shoot short ranges just fine. But, a small caliber rifle will be at a disadvantage for the really long stuff. Remember this is target shooting and not hunting. Since SASS long range does not have weight limits, a long barrel heavy rifle is a big plus.

 

A used Browning BPCR is a great buy for the money. They came in 45-70 and 40-65.

 

Once you have your rifle, buy the best Soule sight you can afford. Whatever you do, do not buy a cheap sight. I would rather have a great sight and so-so rifle than the other way around.

 

And then, most important, shoot your gun a lot. Learn how to shoot in the wind. I see a lot of Cowboys that shoot their guns once a year at their annual mach. And, then complain that they can’t hit anything and blame it on either the rifle or complain that the targets are too small.

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Be careful about the loaded so called "black powder" 45-70 rounds. A lot of them are loaded with Pyrodex and will rust up your gun fast after use. I shoot 100% real black and none of the subs even come close to it in performance. The 45-70 is shot in the 1000 yard matches all the time and takes a back seat to anyone. Most SASS clubs rarely shoot past 300 yards. Any rifle from a trapdoor up to the 1874 Sharps model will handle this range with ease. To be competitive you must load your rounds for your rifle. The most common powder at Raton NM Nationals is Swiss but the Goex Cartridge and Express will shoot the 500 grain bullets well enough to win. The Goex powders are discontinued but a check with Powder INC a few weeks back showed they still had a good stock of each.

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45-70 is the round. Brass and any number of bullet types, weights, and lube grooves is are out there.

 

The vast majority of SASS long range matches are in the 50 to 200 yd range. The shorter distances become speed rifle contests. The guy who wins hits all the rounds in the fastest time.

 

I have both the Pedersoli 45-70 Billy Dixon Sharps repro. and the Uberti 45-70 Highwall. Both guns are very accurate in both smokeless and BP. We shoot 300,400, and 500 yds and both rifles clang the steel if I do my job. If you start to shoot anything over 200 yds. you're going to want to buy a long range Soule site and a hooded front site with a spirit level and exchangeable site inserts.

 

If you by one get the 100 yd version just in case. You will pay almost as much for the sites as the hiwall.

 

The single shot guns out at long distances like bullets over 500 grains for stability.

 

Getting the right bullet and powder combo is the true secrete to success.

 

For SASS be ready to shoot both offhand and with shooting sticks.

I hope this helps.

Ike

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There's great advice given above.

 

Dont buy cheap sights!

 

Load your own rounds, so you know exactly how it will perform.

 

If you shoot black powder, you CAN download a 45-70 to 45-60, as long as you use a thicker wad and a compression die and your bullet still compresses it all as you seat it.

 

 

and finally...BUY GOOD SIGHTS!

 

 

FWIW...YMMV..SOso

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Howdy

 

Lots and lots of good advice here.

 

It is very hard to generalize for CAS long range events because they can vary so much from club to club. Around these parts we seldom shoot over 300 yards. Other areas of the country may have access to ranges with targets much farther out. Some events are timed, some are not. You need to find out how the shoots in your area are run in order to make an informed choice.

 

For shooting single shot rifles, I heartily endorse the suggestion to get Mike Venturino's book Shooting Buffalo Rifles of the Old West. It is the most authoritative book on the subject. It gives a rundown of all the old single shot rifles, Trap Door, Rolling Block, Sharps, Winchester 1885 (Highwall). It also gives a rundown on all the cartridges. Be aware though, the Venturino book is specifically about shooting Black Powder in these rifles, there is no smokeless information. However, the information in it is very useful, even to the Smokeless shooter.

 

Buffalo Rifle Book

 

As for cartridges, I will give you a thought right out of Mike's book. Start with the 45-70. There are many other cartridges that existed in the old days, but most of them are a bit esoteric. The 45-70 simply has more variety of components easily available than any of the other old cartridges. Cases are readily available, the variety of bullets is better, and there is much more information available on the 45-70 than any other cartridge. A reasonable second choice is the 38-55, but even there, rifling groove diameters tend to vary more than with 45-70, and the beginner sometimes has to do more work to run down a combination that will work well in his rifle than with the venerable old 45-70. And there is no such thing as too much recoil with 45-70; it can always be loaded down for the task at hand.

 

As stated, there are often events for pistol caliber rifles. Most guys just use their regular Main Match rifle and Main Match ammo. There are also events for lever action 'rifle' cartridges like 30-30 and 45-70. Just depends on what you want to do.

 

Best to find out what is available in your area.

 

If it matters at all, I chose a Pedersoli replica Sharps, 45-70. I only shoot Black Powder out of mine.

 

I will recommend that if you are going to be shooting anything with substantial recoil, like 45-70, you stay away from crescent shaped butt plates and go for a shotgun style butt plate.

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