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Is this fanning?


Shooting Bull

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Derringer side match. At the beep the derringer comes up, held in the right hand. Trigger is held back by the trigger finger of the right hand while hammer is cocked by the thumb of the left hand and and released to fire. Then, with trigger still being held back, hammer is cocked the second time by the pinkey of the left hand and fired. I've heard it argued that fanning is when you use the pad under you pinkey of your off hand to repeatedly cock and fire whereas what I described is slip hammering and perfectly legal. What's the call?

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Somebody wants to WIN real bad. Most(not all) derringers can't be cocked with a pinky finger.

 

There used to be a group here called DGB (Dirty Gamey Bastards)of which I am one.

 

So.....I say your a Gamer.....want to join? Just sayin'

 

Big Jake

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Somebody wants to WIN real bad. Most(not all) derringers can't be cocked with a pinky finger.

 

There used to be a group here called DGB (Dirty Gamey Bastards)of which I am one.

 

So.....I say your a Gamer.....want to join? Just sayin'

 

Big Jake

 

 

Not me. I'm still trying to do it successfully twice with my thumb.

 

 

(Although my wife says I'd qualify since I'm all thumbs. :( )

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Given the hammer is cocked by two different fingers on a single pass of the hand, I would call it fanning.

 

Regards,

BJT

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Sounds like slip hammering to me. Fanning to me is taking the off hand and raking the hammer back sharply and repeatedly in a somewhat violent manner.

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If'n the off hand ain't touchin nothin but the hammer...fanning.

 

:FlagAm:

 

Never quite thought of it in those terms, but that makes sense to me.

 

Might as well hijack a little, brings up a thought, do any duelists sliphammer? I reckon some do, way more coordination than I got though.

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BJT seems to size it up very well with his discription of a single hand movement across the top of the derringer as fanning.

 

The art of fanning, although some think it not very accurate, can be mastered with practice with every shot hitting the target very quickly. The old three-shot: start with six gun cocked, with the off hand over the frame and barrel just in front of the hammer, pull and hold the trigger for the first round, sweeping the hand backward with the thumb cocking the hammer (the hammer releasing because the trigger is being held back), followed by the pinky re-cocking for the third shot. This can be done so quickly that it will appear and sound as if only one shot has been fired.

 

The act of doing this with a 2-shot derringer as described by the poster is another way to "game the game" by breaking the rules using a style of fanning the is prohibited. There is also a very large safety factor invovled with the shortness of a derringer barrel, watch out for the little pinky, ouch that hurt!

 

In a nutshell, fanning is the art of moving the hand or a portion of it (fingers or palm) and the movement of the arm across the hammer of a firearm.

 

With the traditional cocking of using the off hand thumb and trigger held down, with a quick thumb repeat (slip-hammering)no movement of the off hand and arm to perform a sweeping motion is used. This same principle applies to using the slip-hammer techique in the main match as a legal style.

 

It might also be noted that person who practices and uses this described motion can be so fast that the timer (if checked for individual shots) will not record two shots fired so a person can acutal "out shoot" themselves, lol.

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If'n the off hand ain't touchin nothin but the hammer...fanning.

 

:FlagAm:

 

Exactly.

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Hi Philly,

 

I didn't see the rule quoted. So, here it is, from page 24 of the SHB. "SASS matches are not fast draw competitions. Any unsafe gun handling in the course of a draw from the holster or any “fanning” will result in the shooter’s disqualification from that stage. 'Slip-hammering' is not the same as fanning and is legal."

 

I did not find where our booklets describe the practices. The following is from Wikipedia. "Fanning is a revolver shooting technique in which one hand holds the trigger and the other hits the revolver hammer repeatedly. This turns the cylinder and hits the firing pin in that order, allowing for 'automatic fire' of a revolver. This technique only works with single action revolvers, and, when performed very quickly, can be very damaging to the cylinder stop mechanism. This technique is used extensively in Fast Draw competitions, which generally use special lightweight aluminum or titanium blank firing cylinders, rather than the steel cylinders normally found on single action revolvers.

 

A similar rapid-fire method called "sliding", in which the thumb of the gun hand exerts just enough pressure on the hammer to pull it down, but not lock it into readiness for firing, is also known in many references."

 

Regards,

 

Allie Mo

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Okay Mrs. Mo, from the definition you provided, "This technique only works with single action revolvers". According to them it CAN'T be done with a derringer which means what I described must be slip hammering and thus, legal. :)

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Are Derringers single actions?

 

Or are we looking at the word 'revolver' as a unique particular in this definition?

 

 

..........Widder

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Wait a second! Since when would a deringer NOT be considered a "Single Action?" Since the label is defined by what happens when you pull the trigger, hence "single action" revolvers, semi-autos... and in this case any deringer I can think of. It ain't by gawd any stretch of the imagination a "double action!"

 

One shouldn't believe EVERYTHING one reads in Wikipedia... I sure seem to recall being able to sliphammer my S&W mdl 19 'n 65! I could be wrong... but just sayin'. Anyone can post and edit "facts" there.

 

YES, in answer to the OP, that's fannin'. But... {with my devil's advocate hat on}, does that rule apply to a side match?

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...One shouldn't believe EVERYTHING one reads in Wikipedia... I sure seem to recall being able to sliphammer my S&W mdl 19 'n 65! I could be wrong... but just sayin'. Anyone can post and edit "facts" there....

Hi Griff,

 

True about Wikipedia. If it is not correct, you should edit it.

 

Regards,

 

Allie Mo

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Yes...it IS "fanning".

 

The following would also apply to sidematches:

 

STAGE DISQUALIFICATION

• ...

Unsafe firearm handling, such as fanning.

...

RO1 "Penalty Overview"
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Derringer side match. At the beep the derringer comes up, held in the right hand. Trigger is held back by the trigger finger of the right hand while hammer is cocked by the thumb of the left hand and and released to fire. Then, with trigger still being held back, hammer is cocked the second time by the pinkey of the left hand and fired. I've heard it argued that fanning is when you use the pad under you pinkey of your off hand to repeatedly cock and fire whereas what I described is slip hammering and perfectly legal. What's the call?

 

You will poke yer eye out..................geeeeeeeeeeez ...........some people's KIDS!!!!!!!!!!!

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If'n the off hand ain't touchin nothin but the hammer...fanning.

 

:FlagAm:

Help me understand . . I draw and point my pistol at a target, and my support hand comes up to the gun,

but without wrapping any fingers of that hand around the gun, I just use my thumb or index finger of that hand

to cock the hammer. Since I've held the trigger back in the fire position - this is slip hammering . . nicht wahr?

 

Then I use a different finger to cock the hammer again - is it now fanning because it was different finger, or

because the hand wasn't wrapped around the grip - or why - what makes it fanning versus slip hammering?

 

I've always used the term fanning to mean that the off hand was making a fanning motion across the gun to fire it,

in other words it was hand slapping the hammer to cock the pistol. Slip hammering was always using fingers to cock

the pistol hammer, while the trigger was held back . . . it never made no difference as to whether the off hand

was wrapped around the gun or waving in the breeze - it was how you cocked the hammer . . .

 

So now I'm curious - is this defined somewhere?

 

Shadow Catcher

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I've always used the term fanning to mean that the off hand was making a fanning motion across the gun to fire it,

in other words it was hand slapping the hammer to cock the pistol. Slip hammering was always using fingers to cock

the pistol hammer, while the trigger was held back . . . it never made no difference as to whether the off hand

was wrapped around the gun or waving in the breeze - it was how you cocked the hammer . . .

 

So now I'm curious - is this defined somewhere?

 

Shadow Catcher

 

IMO...it sounds like you defined it:

The hand "making a fanning motion"

...doesn't matter whether the thumb/finger(s) or the palm of the hand contacts the hammer to cock it.

The only "rulebook" definition refers to it as an example of "UNSAFE FIREARM HANDLING".

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Help me understand . . I draw and point my pistol at a target, and my support hand comes up to the gun,

but without wrapping any fingers of that hand around the gun, I just use my thumb or index finger of that hand

to cock the hammer. Since I've held the trigger back in the fire position - this is slip hammering . . nicht wahr?

 

Then I use a different finger to cock the hammer again - is it now fanning because it was different finger, or

because the hand wasn't wrapped around the grip - or why - what makes it fanning versus slip hammering?

 

I've always used the term fanning to mean that the off hand was making a fanning motion across the gun to fire it,

in other words it was hand slapping the hammer to cock the pistol. Slip hammering was always using fingers to cock

the pistol hammer, while the trigger was held back . . . it never made no difference as to whether the off hand

was wrapped around the gun or waving in the breeze - it was how you cocked the hammer . . .

 

So now I'm curious - is this defined somewhere?

 

Shadow Catcher

 

Are you saying when Bob Munden cranks off 5 shots almost simultanously using his thumb and four fingers across the hammer, that is not fanning????

I believe he would say it was. I do too.

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Are you saying when Bob Munden cranks off 5 shots almost simultanously using his thumb and four fingers across the hammer, that is not fanning????

I believe he would say it was. I do too.

No - never made any declaration . .although others have.

 

All I asked was - Assume I hold the gun in my strong hand, and keep the trigger pulled back. Then I reach over with my support hand, and

using only one fingertip, say my thumb, I pull back the trigger and let fly - is that process of the finger stoking the hammer back fanning the gun?

If the other fingers are wrapped around the gun - it's not - it's two handed shooting. If the fingers are wrapped around the gun but NOT touching

the gun or other hand - is it still two handed shooting? How far from the gun may the hands be before the two handed shooting becomes fanning.

If the hand that is cocking the gun is not moving relative to the gun - that is - NOT moving in a fanning motion - is it fanning?

 

If I follow it up with a second finger pull on the trigger a second or two later also fanning?

 

Here's my point - Taking the hand and sweeping the firearm in a fanning motion is obviously fanning - it's the definition of the term -

"to move the hand in a fanning motion across the gun to pull back the hammer."

 

My point was - if I use the finger tips in deliberate slow motion to cock the gun - is that also fanning?

 

It's called Ruductio ad absurdum . . . at what point does the reference to self-defining terms result in a ridiculous set of conclusions?

 

I can see calling it fanning when I am moving my hand in a manner to fan the gun, but if my hand is perfectly still, and only my fingers twitch,

and in each twitch they stroke the hammer back, how is that different from holding the gun with both hands and the thumb of the support hand stroking

the hammer?

 

It's just like playing the keyboards . . . . . fingers making music . . . .

 

It's not important - but it's one of those things where we get all wrapped around the rules as we interpret them - without thinking about the meaning of words . . . . .

 

YMMV . . .

 

Shadow Catcher

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No - never made any declaration . .although others have.

 

All I asked was - Assume I hold the gun in my strong hand, and keep the trigger pulled back. Then I reach over with my support hand, and

using only one fingertip, say my thumb, I pull back the trigger and let fly - is that process of the finger stoking the hammer back fanning the gun?

If the other fingers are wrapped around the gun - it's not - it's two handed shooting. If the fingers are wrapped around the gun but NOT touching

the gun or other hand - is it still two handed shooting? How far from the gun may the hands be before the two handed shooting becomes fanning.

If the hand that is cocking the gun is not moving relative to the gun - that is - NOT moving in a fanning motion - is it fanning?

 

If I follow it up with a second finger pull on the trigger a second or two later also fanning?

 

Here's my point - Taking the hand and sweeping the firearm in a fanning motion is obviously fanning - it's the definition of the term -

"to move the hand in a fanning motion across the gun to pull back the hammer."

 

My point was - if I use the finger tips in deliberate slow motion to cock the gun - is that also fanning?

 

It's called Ruductio ad absurdum . . . at what point does the reference to self-defining terms result in a ridiculous set of conclusions?

 

I can see calling it fanning when I am moving my hand in a manner to fan the gun, but if my hand is perfectly still, and only my fingers twitch,

and in each twitch they stroke the hammer back, how is that different from holding the gun with both hands and the thumb of the support hand stroking

the hammer?

 

It's just like playing the keyboards . . . . . fingers making music . . . .

 

It's not important - but it's one of those things where we get all wrapped around the rules as we interpret them - without thinking about the meaning of words . . . . .

 

YMMV . . .

 

Shadow Catcher

 

Same digit cocking hammer...cool

 

Different digit cocking same hammer...not cool.

 

Sorry I don't have any fancy latin words for ya.

 

:FlagAm:

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Same digit cocking hammer...cool

 

Different digit cocking same hammer...not cool.

 

Sorry I don't have any fancy latin words for ya.

 

:FlagAm:

Ya know - sometimes the simplest answer is the most helpful . . even if it isn't in Latin.

 

Now if only they'd hire you to revise the dang rule tome and get it down to six pages, with no polysyllabic terms . . . .

 

Good work man . . .

 

SC

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