Non CAS Question about 38 Super

[Peso Bill SR 54015]

My Katt just got me a brand new gun :.) Its a full size 1911 clone in 38 Super, I thought I had owned one of everything by now but this is a first for me. Is it a leagal gun for Wild Bunch shoots? Im not sure how long they have been around, I know they are about the only round legal in Mexico. I picked up two boxes of factory ammo today(for an arm and a leg!) and I want to start reloading for it. I was told I can shoot the same lead as a regular 38 or 9mm? also that I could use 380 auto dies?If so I have the dies and molds for some lead for it. Anyone know what is the best lead weight for this round? I know I cant ask you all for a good powder and how much, dang! Dont wanna break the rules. Also one of the local pawn shops had some ammo marked 38 auto, is that useable in the 38 super or is it for something else? Thanks for any help you can give.

[Kiowa Kid, SASS #69870L]

My Katt just got me a brand new gun :.) Its a full size 1911 clone in 38 Super, I thought I had owned one of everything by now but this is a first for me. Is it a leagal gun for Wild Bunch shoots? Im not sure how long they have been around, I know they are about the only round legal in Mexico. I picked up two boxes of factory ammo today(for an arm and a leg!) and I want to start reloading for it. I was told I can shoot the same lead as a regular 38 or 9mm? also that I could use 380 auto dies?If so I have the dies and molds for some lead for it. Anyone know what is the best lead weight for this round? I know I cant ask you all for a good powder and how much, dang! Dont wanna break the rules. Also one of the local pawn shops had some ammo marked 38 auto, is that useable in the 38 super or is it for something else? Thanks for any help you can give.

Not Legal in Wild Bunch only 45acp for the 1911. But check you local club rules they may let you use it but as far as WR and EOT 45acp only for 1911.

 

KK

[Mustang Gregg]

 

I have shot at a WB match where it WAS legal and so were DA revolvers of the period. So I reckon at a monthly match, you can make you own regs.

 

At our own club, we've talked about allowing it when we get started with WB (next season).

 

MG

[Elfego, SASS #50493]

In my 38 super, a Colt Govt Mdl, i have successfully used a variety of bullet weights.

 

My most used cast bullet comes from a Saeco mold and is sized .356" and weighes about 122 grains and is of the semiwadcutter variety. It functions reliably

 

My powder of choice is Unique.

 

38 auto and 38 super cases are the same.

 

At one time i found some 38 auto ammo and it functioned in my gun.

 

The dies i use are old 38 super Carbide ones from RCBS.

 

In my youth i figured a ten shot 38 super was better than a six-shot snub-nosed 357 magnum revolver.

 

The 38 super is a flatter shooting cartridge than the 45acp.

[Quick Will Lee]

My club let me last year and I double checked yesterday to make sure it was OK with them this year too.

 

I have not thought about trying to use 380 dies for 38 super.

 

The problem I found was finding a load that on paper was less than 1000fps that would cycle the slide. I had not even considered power factor for knockdowns. I spent weeks playing around with the powders and bullet (122 gr rn) that I had already and just buying light springs instead. When a 5 lb progressive rate spring would not reliably cycle I was ready to give up.

 

I did get some good advice on the wire to look into a heavier bullet with Unique and that would have been my next step. I got lucky though when I went through the bullets that came with the gun and found a whole bunch of 147 gr conical lead that were exactly what was needed. These shoot very well in it and are sub 900 fps on paper. I still run a 10# spring.

 

Mine will take 45 magazines and I am pretty sure that I would just need a new barrel and mags for the gun if I ever get too much grief. I was amused at all the guys at the shoot with 38 rifles though.

 

QWL

[Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933]

"Mine will take 45 magazines and I am pretty sure that I would just need a new barrel and mags for the gun if I ever get too much grief. I was amused at all the guys at the shoot with 38 rifles though."

 

Not quite. The slides are different.

[Iron Pony]

Bill the 38Super is one of my favorites, loaded with a 125 grain JHP its pretty much a 357 auto and you can use the 147 grain "subsonic" bullets designed for the 9mm as well. A couple of things to watch for, you will see lots of loads that were developed for major power factor in IPSC. Unless your gun has a fully supported chamber dont use these loads, it will bulge or blow out brass in regular bbls. The only super I've had with one of these bbls was a commander size gun wth a full length govt bbl that looked goofy but shot like mad. It was also the second loudest pistol I've ever shot on an indoor range, when using major power handloads, ear plugs AND muffs are a good idea. Second most if not all of the brass you see will be headstamped +P which is another attempt at getting folks NOT to put Supers into 38ACP guns, bad things happen.

 

For lead bullets the range goes from about 90 to 158 grains, you can find loading data for all of them and about the only limiting factor is proper sizing and if they work in your gun. I have loaded everything from 90 grain JHPs to lead 158 grain SWCs. I stick pretty much with 125 and 147 grain truncated cones now. I like AA#7 and AA#9 as they both meter real well though right now I'm working with Power Pistol and 125 grain JHPs and lead hard cast bullets. The Super is one of those pistols you may have to tailor your recoil spring to different types of loads, kind of like the 1911 in 45ACP, because the range of stuff you can load for it is so varied. Not sure what weight spring is std with your gun but if you want to load it way down, or up, you may need a selection of springs. If you buy the 38ACP ammo it may not have enough power to operate the gun; plus I was taught NOT to have ACP brass for a Super as its an invitation for disaster.

 

IIRC dies for the 38ACP will not work for the Super, much the same way 38Spec dies wont size 357Mag brass fully but you can go the opposite way. Get a good set of carbide Super dies and be done with it. I know from personal experience a Square Deal shell plate for 9mm wont work with the Super, way different rim dimensions and have another #5 shell plate on order right now. Somehow, I got the two mixed up and sent the #5 shell plate with the 9mm setup when a previous SDB went to a pard.

 

Reference conversions…. I know a series 80 Colt in 38Super can be turned into a 10mm with a bbl, extractor, magazines, recoil and firing pin springs. Brad Lewis did this for me on a stainless pistol a couple years before anything else in that finish came out. Never tried the super cartridge in a 45ACP magazine, can imagine loads of problems there. The gun also shoots 40SW with a new bbl, recoil spring and magazines. Some day Ill make this one gun shoot 4 cartridges by getting it setup for 9mm as well.

[Dubious Don #56333]

Using youe 38 super 1911 depends on what rules your club is going to use. If they follow SASS rules a 1911 must be 45 ACP and full size. Local clubs often allow a broader selection of guns so check it out.

 

The 38 super and 38 auto are identical in dimension BUT are loaded to entirely different specs. Think of the super as +P. Don't use it in any gun chambered for the 38 auto. 38 auto should work just fine in your super. Dies marked 38 auto will work for super and vice-versa. I don't think 9mm or 380ACP dies will work because the dimensions are different. Any .355 9mm bullet will work just fine for super. You shouldn't have any problem with ammo but it's common for older guns chambered for 38 auto to get broke shooting super ammo. This is why they put the +P on super headstamps and also why you should have a care shooting other people's reloads. People like to hop this cartridge way up and a load that is "safe" in one gun might not be for another due to dimensional differences in the barrel/chamber. Likewise a load that is hot that works fine in a fully supported chamber might blow at the feed ramp in a barrel withoutaa supported chamber.

 

38 super/auto as originally designed headspace on a rather stingy rim and not the case mouth like other auto cartridges. This is why accuracy is somewhat lackluster. This has been corected in newer pistols depending on the manufacturer; they headspace on the case mouth and accuracy is much improved.

 

IPSC shooters use this cartridge and a variety of custom stuff like the 9X23 and such. There's lots of information out there, not all of it is correct. You cannot convert a 38 super to a 45 or another cartridge unless you change the slide, ejector, barrel, magazine and associated parts to match the correct caliber. 38 super and 9mm are close enough that you can do this with just a barrel and magazine. Recoil spring, mainspring and firing pin spring may also have to be changed. May.