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Sequence is from position (1) rifle 10 rounds, 1st pistol , shotgun, taking shotgun Move to position (2) use shotgun then finish with last pistol.

 

Shooter shoots rifle, goes to pistol gets 3 rounds off has malfunction hands pistol off, pulls second pistol hits last 2 targets. Reholsters pistol hammer down on spent case, does shotgun. moves to position 2 does shotgun, pulls pistol , shoots 3 live rounds he has left, goes to reload 2 more cartriges, at that point ro says no reloads go to unloading table.

 

Ok whats the call. Thanks HPH

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A pistol may not be returned to leather before it has been shot dry. If it happens by mistake you only get the misses for the unfired rounds. To do so on purpose is a procedural.

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Reloads in this instance are perfectly legal. Like Tell said, reloading will probably take more time, but maybe he wants to clean the stage.

 

RO interference, shooter gets reshoot.

 

 

 

"A pistol may not be returned to leather before it has been shot dry." - Goody, that's for a gunfighter only, IIRC. No procedural.

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Can't understand why TO did not let shooter reload two rounds. Many shooters can reload two and shoot them in under the 10 seconds-only one empty needs to be ejected. Since shooter handed off first pistol, when he got to last pistol shots his only choice was to reload 2nd pistol. Shooter should be offered a reshoot by TO. Don't know where folks came up with a Procedural penalty for holstering his loaded pistol with hammer down on a spent round. We holster our loaded pistols every stage at the loading table with no procedural penalty. Now if shooter were to holster his loaded or unloaded pistol with hammer cocked that would be a different matter. If shooter declines reshoot, two misses would be in order. This all assumes shooter was not shooting gunfighter category.

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No call, and a reshoot for RO interference. Another good reason to not use (with 1st pistol, holster.....with 2nd pistol, holster) when writing stages. Much easier to say "with 1st five round...with 2nd five rounds" if pistols are split. "Holster" is covered in the Stage Conventions. Pistol strings are considered 10 shot strings, or with split pistols two 5 shot strings, or, "as shots from one type of firearm prior to the next type of firearm engaged".

 

7. Revolvers are returned to leather after the shooting string.

6. Revolvers are returned to leather (re-holstered) with hammer down on a spent case or empty chamber at the conclusion of the shooting string, unless the stage description specifically directs otherwise; e.g., move to next position and set gun on table or prop. A shooting string is defined as shots from one type of firearm prior to the next type of firearm engaged.

 

• Revolver(s)

Safe for movement in hand, while holstering, and safe to leave the shooter’s hand.

• Hammer fully down on an empty chamber,

• Hammer fully down on an expended round (may not be originally staged in this condition but may be restaged in this condition)

 

Jefro :ph34r:

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Yup, offer a reshoot.

With an equipment failure on the pistol, the shooter may use the other pistol. Holstering on an empty is allowed (except gunfighter) and shooter may reload to make up misses.

 

R.O.I page 16 & 17:

9. If a firearm is shot out of sequence or from the wrong position or location, the shooter will be awarded a single procedural penalty. In this situation, if the shooter elects or is forced to miss an appropriate target due to unsafe angles or target availability, a round may be reloaded to avoid a miss penalty (the dreaded “Double Jeopardy” of a procedure and miss). This does not mean a shooter may reload a rifle or revolver at any other time to make up a miss.

Unfired ejected rifle rounds may be replaced.

10. Inadvertently leaving unfired rounds in a revolver is a miss unless the round is under the hammer, then it is a Stage Disqualification.

11. Safe conditions of firearms during a course of fire are as follows:

• Revolver(s)

Safe for movement in hand, while holstering, and safe to leave the shooter’s hand.

• Hammer fully down on an empty chamber,

• Hammer fully down on an expended round (may not be originally staged in this condition but may be restaged in this condition).

• While the above restrictions apply, there are additional considerations for the Gunfighter. When shooting “Gunfighter Style,” a gunfighter may not holster revolvers with the intent to engage another revolver sequence. Once cocked, all rounds are to be expended prior to holstering unless the revolvers were drawn at the wrong time or a revolver/ammunition malfunction has occurred. Physical stage design may allow a competitor shooting “Gunfighter Style” to stage or restage revolvers between firearm sequences.

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No call, in my opinion. Should have been allowed to reload and shoot. Re-shoot beacause of interference, I'd say. Less time taking the 2 misses, but if he wants to shoot the stage clean, why not.

Ditto that.

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LIB. I coulda sworn it use to say that no one could reholster with the intention of engaging targets later. My bad.

 

Reckon why it's so dangerous for a person signed up as Gunfighter to do so? :blink: Seems rather arbitrary to me. Lets see;

 

If I'm signed up for B Western, and am allowed to shoot GF style, I can reholster.

 

If I'm signed up in the duelist category I can reholster.

 

But if I sign up for GF I can NEVER reholster a partially fired gun with intent to engage targets later in the stage.

 

Yep, makes perfect sense to me. :wacko: Next shooter.

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Goody, the only time this applies to GF (includes BW shooting GF), is if the pistols are split, ie, pistol rifle pistol. the person shooting GF STYLE may not shoot 5 with both pistols, reholster with the intention of using pistols after shooting the rifle (or shotgun). they may stage them on a flat surface, IF one is available...

 

Cheyenne BW/GF Culpepper

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Goody,

 

If a B-Western shooter is shooting "gunfighter style", he must comply with the requirements of that style. Ergo, on stages requiring movement between pistol strings, {make that} shoot DOUBLE duelist.

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Just to clarify the pistol targets were 2 completely different and clearly seperated set of targets. Shooting positions 20 feet apart. Thanks for the responses. Sometimes its hard to give a response without being there and knowing how the stage was written and the exact discription. I was a spotter or counter there was no table to lay pistol down on ro handed pistol off to me I took to unloading table, Generally most just take the misses and go to shotgun. I thought HUMMM. Well nothing really unsafe hammer down on spent case OK. Would shooter need to completely unload and show clear and then reload so RO knew shooter was letting hammer down on empty chamber or spent case? Not trying to keep this going just making sure its clear. Does seem odd gunfighters cant do it Goody.... Thanks HPH

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Just to clarify the pistol targets were 2 completely different and clearly seperated set of targets. Shooting positions 20 feet apart. Thanks for the responses. Sometimes its hard to give a response without being there and knowing how the stage was written and the exact discription. I was a spotter or counter there was no table to lay pistol down on ro handed pistol off to me I took to unloading table, Generally most just take the misses and go to shotgun. I thought HUMMM. Well nothing really unsafe hammer down on spent case OK. Would shooter need to completely unload and show clear and then reload so RO knew shooter was letting hammer down on empty chamber or spent case? Not trying to keep this going just making sure its clear. Does seem odd gunfighters cant do it Goody.... Thanks HPH

Shooter only need to unload one hole, load two rounds (then has two empty holes), does not have to show RO anything, and just shoot. Shooter could even put hammer down on live round accidently without penalty-that is just one of the risks of a reload. This would be true of this situation or any stage with a pistol reload, which are very common.

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Just to clarify the pistol targets were 2 completely different and clearly seperated set of targets. Shooting positions 20 feet apart. Thanks for the responses. Sometimes its hard to give a response without being there and knowing how the stage was written and the exact discription. I was a spotter or counter there was no table to lay pistol down on ro handed pistol off to me I took to unloading table, Generally most just take the misses and go to shotgun. I thought HUMMM. Well nothing really unsafe hammer down on spent case OK.

Would shooter need to completely unload and show clear and then reload so RO knew shooter was letting hammer down on empty chamber or spent case?

 

NO...if he did the reload before or during the second revolver string, why would he be lowering the hammer?

The shooter is allowed to replace UNFIRED rounds (same as any ejected from the rifle) to avoid the miss penalty(ies).

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• Both revolvers may be cocked at the same time, but must be shot one at a time to facilitate scoring. A Gunfighter may not holster revolvers with the intent to engage another revolver sequence. Once cocked, all rounds must be expended prior to holstering unless the revolvers were drawn at the wrong time or a revolver/ammunition malfunction has occurred.
SHB p.14

 

Something to consider:

Allowing a Gunfighter the same option as the 49er (in a similar scenario) could be justified under the above statement.

The prohibition regarding "...with the intent to engage another revolver sequence." was written to preclude drawing BOTH revolvers; shooting 3/2; holster; move/shoot another firearm; draw both revolvers; shoot 2/3.

 

In the OP, a GF could be considered to be shooting "double duelist" once he surrendered the malfunctioning revolver.

(Actually, a Gunfighter would have been shooting this one "DD" anyway due to the stage setup)

He would be required to fire 5 rounds with one hand; then 5 rounds with the other to remain in category.

IMO.

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Goody,

 

If a B-Western shooter is shooting "gunfighter style", he must comply with the requirements of that style. Ergo, on stages requiring movement between pistol strings, {make that} shoot DOUBLE duelist.

 

The BW shooter may shoot his pistols in any manner he desires, evun if he/she is shooting GF.

 

Cheyenne

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The BW shooter may shoot his pistols in any manner he desires, evun if he/she is shooting GF.

 

Cheyenne

 

 

True however, if the B Western shooter decides to shoot that stage Gunfighter, and shows such by drawing two loaded revolvers at the same time, the the Gunfighter rules must be followed. Just because the B Western shooter is not signed up Gunfighter doesn't mean anything. B Western, by definition, is signed up in all sytle categories at once, duelist, "traditional" and gunfighter.

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True however, if the B Western shooter decides to shoot that stage Gunfighter, and shows such by drawing two loaded revolvers at the same time, the the Gunfighter rules must be followed. Just because the B Western shooter is not signed up Gunfighter doesn't mean anything. B Western, by definition, is signed up in all sytle categories at once, duelist, "traditional" and gunfighter.

 

Well of course! for that stage. however, had he had a malfunction in one revolver, once he grounded it,,, as Fireball would say,,,,FREESTYLE!

 

 

cc

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Let's shoot the stage writer for not providing a place to re-stage revolvers. Forcing a Gunfighter to shoot double duelist is cruel and unusual punishment! :)

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Less time taking the 2 misses, but if he wants to shoot the stage clean, why not.

 

The question has been answered, so I guess it's okay to hijack it now. Regarding this statement, as a rule I would agree, but this is not true with everyone. I don't remember the details, but in January 2007 at Last Stand, I watched Badlands Drifter have a problem and end up putting everyone observing in awe.

 

Whatever had happened, everyone expected him to put down the pistol that I believe had more than a round in it that had failed to fire. Without skipping a beat, he flipped the loading gate open, ejected everything in the pistol, reloaded what he needed and shot the remaining targets in a fashion that would have impressed any NASCAR crew. Everyone including me just stood there unable to believe what we had just witnessed. I would later learn, and not be surprised, that he had practiced it.

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