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A surprise from the younger generation


Blue Steel Duke

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Got a call from my son the other day, otherwise known as the Tactical-Practical Master, and it seems he and a few fellow Officers were heading down to Tennessee for a weeks worth of backwoods camping/hiking, and the area they had chosen was pretty active with Bears. He knew an attack was unlikely but he wanted to be prepared, but even with his arsenal of Glocks and AR's, he said "Can I borrow your .45 Vaquero and some of that hot ammo you have? Some things just never go out of style! ;)

 

BSD

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Got a call from my son the other day, otherwise known as the Tactical-Practical Master, and it seems he and a few fellow Officers were heading down to Tennessee for a weeks worth of backwoods camping/hiking, and the area they had chosen was pretty active with Bears. He knew an attack was unlikely but he wanted to be prepared, but even with his arsenal of Glocks and AR's, he said "Can I borrow your .45 Vaquero and some of that hot ammo you have? Some things just never go out of style! ;)

 

BSD

And watch out fer my banjo picking cuzins...they dun scared off most of the poor bears! :lol:

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And watch out fer my banjo picking cuzins...they dun scared off most of the poor bears! :lol:

I'll bet they have a purdy mouth! :lol:

 

BSD

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Met up wif a black bear just outside of Noxville Tn.

 

Started runnin' at me , drew my 1911 45 auto and pumped 3 rounds in da fore head...

 

 

All 3 bounded off and da bear ran off in da other dicertion. :blink:

 

Dats when I stopped and changed my pants !!! :lol:

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50 Beowulf in the AR platform is a nice piece.

 

Same ballistics as a 45/70 with a standard AR lower.

 

Matches well with either a Glock 21 (or 30 with 21 mag & mag sleeve) or a 1911.

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I guess I am puzzled at the whole practical/tactical phenomenon. I mean, I know that what the military has tends to carry over to the civilian market. But when I see ARs in .308, .338, .50, and however many other configurations, M1As in multiple platforms, more 1911 variants than you can shake a stick at. I read an article, and constantly read on forums about people carrying concealed who carry full size 1911s, and can't imagine going out with less than two extra magazines. Why? Because... You never know... To me, that strikes of paranoia that leads to dangerous situations instead of avoiding them.

 

At any rate, I'm glad my oldest daughter, the one who enjoys shooting, loves traditional firearms. Doesn't care for my Hogue stocked Mini-14, but loves my lever actions.

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I guess I am puzzled at the whole practical/tactical phenomenon. I mean, I know that what the military has tends to carry over to the civilian market. But when I see ARs in .308, .338, .50, and however many other configurations, M1As in multiple platforms, more 1911 variants than you can shake a stick at. I read an article, and constantly read on forums about people carrying concealed who carry full size 1911s, and can't imagine going out with less than two extra magazines. Why? Because... You never know... To me, that strikes of paranoia that leads to dangerous situations instead of avoiding them.

 

At any rate, I'm glad my oldest daughter, the one who enjoys shooting, loves traditional firearms. Doesn't care for my Hogue stocked Mini-14, but loves my lever actions.

The first AR's were chambered in .308 (7.62x51) - not 5.56.

 

As far as carrying concealed - you're the first to bring that up in this thread.

 

I'm just glad that I live in a State & Country that allow me to own and/or carry anything that I want.

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I guess I am puzzled at the whole practical/tactical phenomenon. I mean, I know that what the military has tends to carry over to the civilian market. But when I see ARs in .308, .338, .50, and however many other configurations, M1As in multiple platforms, more 1911 variants than you can shake a stick at. I read an article, and constantly read on forums about people carrying concealed who carry full size 1911s, and can't imagine going out with less than two extra magazines. Why? Because... You never know... To me, that strikes of paranoia that leads to dangerous situations instead of avoiding them.

 

At any rate, I'm glad my oldest daughter, the one who enjoys shooting, loves traditional firearms. Doesn't care for my Hogue stocked Mini-14, but loves my lever actions.

 

I guess I'm one of those people you speak of. I LIKE the 1911 frame and am comfortable and proficient with it. I sometimes travel and carry large amounts of cash, due to the nature of the business I'm in. I have seen the results of situations where the victim mistakenly thought he/she or their family was safe or protected. I am fairly large framed and can conceal my side arm well. Our state's carry law does not require concealment so there are times when I carry openly although it isn't often that I do. I sometimes carry one of my 1875 Remington replicas when I do and the ocasion calls for it.

 

What you chose to carry is a matter of YOUR personal preference, and judgements of machoism, (did I invent a word?) or paranoia are not proper.

 

'Sides, just 'cause you're paranoid doesn't mean there isn't real danger out there! :unsure::lol:

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Let me start out by saying that I was a little tired last night as I wrote that, as can probably be surmised by the typographic errors. I certainly wasn't meaning to step on toes or make any judgments. I was simply trying to comment on my lack of excitement about the whole tactical / practical / black gun craze. I am most definitely NOT trying to say there iesn't a place for them or that they are somehow bad things. I strongly believe gun owners of all stripes need to stick together and support one another, even if a particular shooting style, concept or event is not up one's particular alley.

 

In regard to the AR platform, yes I am aware the first AR, the AR-10, was developed in 7.62mm NATO. It was, if I remember correctly, beat out by the M14 in U.S. military trials. However, that fact isn't really important to what I was discussing about the massive proliferation of makers, calibers, designs, accessories and what-not for the AR platform. It seems every time I pick up a gun magazine other than "Guns of the Old West" or one specifically geared towards handguns, the proliferation of tactical firearms jumps out and beats me over the head. Even in the handgun specific magazines, the tactical concept is pushed to the forefront. Again, I am not saying it is a bad thing. It reminds me of when I was more involved in the martial arts in the late 80s through the 90s, and if training wasn't "Ninja" or "Navy SEAL" it wasn't worth anything. I just wonder how much is consumer driven and how much is driving consumers.

 

As for the use of the 1911 as a concealed carry or a daily carry firearm. Again, I didn't mean to step on any toes. While I strongly believe that the 1911, as well as the Browning Hi-Power, are "expert's" weapons, best saved for those who practice to maintain proficiency, I am not against carrying either one. I have a Hi-Power in .40 S&W, and for years when I felt the need to carry in my job, that is what I turned to. My point wasn't that the 1911, or any semi-auto platform was or is inappropriate and I certainly support and advocate for the right of concealed carry, and open carry for that matter. In so doing, I want those who choose to carry to use the firearm they feel most comfortable with, and train with it to proficiency.

 

My observation on that subject was that, in reading various articles and in various forums, that there is a contingent that feels that virtually anytime they step out of the house they should be armed to the teeth. Major caliber tuned semi-auto with tritium sites? Check. Two extra magazines? Check. The latest greatest expanding hollow point bullets? Check. SureFire flashlight? Check. Back up snubby in ankle holster? Check. Tactical folding knife? Check. No, I am not exaggerating some of the things I have read. I need to know where these people go on a daily basis that they feel they need this much armament. I want to avoid those places completely.

 

So, no BD, I don't want you to give up your 1911 for something else, or stop carrying completely. Clearly, you need to go armed based on your description of your work. Heck, even then, I bristle at the use of the word "need." I don't care one wit if someone "needs" to go armed or not. If someone chooses to go armed and has completed the steps to do so, then, I say need be darned. My only question is when does prudence slip to paranoia?

 

In regards to having seen the results of mistakes made, I just have to ask, in how many of those instances would multiple magazines, etc... have made a difference, as opposed to, say, a 1911 with one mag or even a .357 wheel gun? I can recall few, if any, stories of civilians (non LEO) needing multiple magazines of ammunition to extract themselves from bad situations. I am not saying they aren't out there, but I am not aware of them.

 

At any rate, I apologize again for stepping on toes here. Even more for the tangent and thread hijack.

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Hey Doc,

No toes stepped on here. I'm one of those who samples many different varieties, guns included. My first love, gunwise, is the 1875 Remington revolver. I wish I had the money to own a pair of originals. My 1911 is actually a 13/45 Para which is the latest stopping point on my journey through daily carry weapons, ('N' yeah I do have a spare mag pouch. It rides in the cubby in my truck). I do have a couple of the "tactical/hi-tec" black rifles that are more exercises in personal design and ergonomics than statements on preparedness.

I'd love to be able to afford a Barrett Fifty of some sort and a full on large cal. automatic weapon, (machine gun). Some Day (sigh).

 

If I lived in some of the places that I go, or have gone, I'd probably go around just like the guy you described, and cary one of my black rifles too! :rolleyes::angry:

How some people live like that is beyond me. My dad was a LEO for five decades and I've seen more than my share.

 

So Doc, I did get your drift on the subject and was not offended in the least. Different strokes..... If you were to go through my safe you'd probably find something for nearly everybody, except for the fifty and the big M.G.

 

Back to the thread. I don't personaly know how well any carry handgun would fare as a first line defense weapon on a black bear. That is a BIG animal and is capable of absorbing a lot of punishment. Enraged or crazed it would be doubtful that any of the normal large cal. handguns would be even marginally reliable against those big fellers. It is neat that the younger people recognise the usefulness of a large wheelgun though.

 

p.s. Doc, have you managed to get out and shoot a match yet? I know you were plannin' on it.

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BD,

 

It sounds like we are actually pretty much on the page. I certainly wouldn't mind owning a Barrett, or any number of firearms you might care to think of, including some of the black rifles. However, they aren't my first interest in firearms.

 

No, I haven't gotten out to a shoot yet. The one I planned to attend was cancelled due to the heavy rains turning the new range into a quagmire. The past two weekends, the Army has had me. Next weekend is my last weekend before Annual Training, so I'm planning on spending it with the family. At this point, if I had to guess, I would say May, if all goes well. :unsure:

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Bear gun = 12 ga. pump shotgun with slugs or oo buckshot. Anything smaller is iffy. Easy enough to have a shotgun in camp. IF you need to carry something on your hip, bigger is definitely better, and .45 colt or .45 acp is not the biggest, or necessarily the best.

For other occasions concealed carry is a personal choice but any gun is better than no gun, and its better to have and not need than to need and not have. I have no problem with "paranoid" people carrying more weaponry than I might think they they "need." There's no evidence, even anecdotal, of this creating or exacerbating a problem. (Sorry about the cliches and big words. Normally I avoid both.)

 

The O'Meara, himself

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Bear gun = 12 ga. pump shotgun with slugs or oo buckshot. Anything smaller is iffy. Easy enough to have a shotgun in camp. IF you need to carry something on your hip, bigger is definitely better, and .45 colt or .45 acp is not the biggest, or necessarily the best.

For other occasions concealed carry is a personal choice but any gun is better than no gun, and its better to have and not need than to need and not have. I have no problem with "paranoid" people carrying more weaponry than I might think they they "need." There's no evidence, even anecdotal, of this creating or exacerbating a problem. (Sorry about the cliches and big words. Normally I avoid both.)

 

The O'Meara, himself

The area and trails they were on was pretty rugged and they didn't want to take any long guns. My OMV 7 1/2 inch was loaded with Buffalo Bore 320 grain SWC moving at a cool 1400 fps.

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"I guess I am puzzled at the whole practical/tactical phenomenon"

 

Doc, that's an honest question that many are asking right now. I can't speak for other areas of the country, but here in Indianapolis times are a changing. Suspects rarely carry .22's or revolvers anymore, and what we're seeing on a consistent basis are 13 and 14 year olds with high capacity semi auto's and/or SKS/AK clones. My son was on patrol one day and noticed a very suspicious acting teenager walking very unusually, after stopping to talk to the kid he bolted and a fully loaded SKS fell from his baggy shorts. He was later captured and found to have two spare 30 rounds magazines.........he was 15! A high percentage of our shootings, drive by's and homicides involve 15 to 20 rounds being fired, and as I've said in other threads (and drawn fire for saying) the days of "5 shots and it's over" are long gone. Officers quite frequently have contracts or kill orders put out on them from gangs, and one local Officer had his home firebombed shortly before Christmas, with his wife and 2 children inside. Even off duty an Officer is driving around in a marked billboard and can be an easy target, so a tactical mindset 24/7 is a necessity. ;)

 

BSD

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"I guess I am puzzled at the whole practical/tactical phenomenon"

 

Doc, that's an honest question that many are asking right now. I can't speak for other areas of the country, but here in Indianapolis times are a changing. Suspects rarely carry .22's or revolvers anymore, and what we're seeing on a consistent basis are 13 and 14 year olds with high capacity semi auto's and/or SKS/AK clones. My son was on patrol one day and noticed a very suspicious acting teenager walking very unusually, after stopping to talk to the kid he bolted and a fully loaded SKS fell from his baggy shorts. He was later captured and found to have two spare 30 rounds magazines.........he was 15! A high percentage of our shootings, drive by's and homicides involve 15 to 20 rounds being fired, and as I've said in other threads (and drawn fire for saying) the days of "5 shots and it's over" are long gone. Officers quite frequently have contracts or kill orders put out on them from gangs, and one local Officer had his home firebombed shortly before Christmas, with his wife and 2 children inside. Even off duty an Officer is driving around in a marked billboard and can be an easy target, so a tactical mindset 24/7 is a necessity. ;)

 

BSD

 

I am outside of Dayton, but wasn't aware that Indy had gotten that bad. Being as close to the I-70 and I-75 junction as we are, we get a fair amount of drug activity and have had gang activity as well. We are used to seeing high cap mags, but still haven't been seeing the semi-auto assault style rifles. I did try to be specific about Law Enforcement though, because I recognize that even off duty, they have their own unique needs. Still, in reading various accounts, I have not yet seen where a civilian CCW carrier has needed to resort to multiple mags or speed loaders. Again, not saying they aren't out there, but I haven't seen them.

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I am outside of Dayton, but wasn't aware that Indy had gotten that bad. Being as close to the I-70 and I-75 junction as we are, we get a fair amount of drug activity and have had gang activity as well. We are used to seeing high cap mags, but still haven't been seeing the semi-auto assault style rifles. I did try to be specific about Law Enforcement though, because I recognize that even off duty, they have their own unique needs. Still, in reading various accounts, I have not yet seen where a civilian CCW carrier has needed to resort to multiple mags or speed loaders. Again, not saying they aren't out there, but I haven't seen them.

 

Agreed. What civilians are seeing more frequently are multiple suspects in home invasions and robberies, all being armed, so the 5 shot revolver is an issue. My standard anymore is a Glock 19 with a spare magazine, plus I keep 2 in the car and 1 by the nightstand. Just last night we had a man gunned down while walking his dog, and 13 shell casings were found at the scene, but witnesses advised that double that amount were fired. Sadly, this IS the norm anymore :unsure:

 

BSD

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