Guest ninjandrew Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 Howdy! So I'd just like to make it clear Im not talking about "fast drawing" with real ammunition, just shooting from the hip. Ive watched a lot of videos of people fast drawing and shooting from the hip using wax bullets and primers. My question is, would it be feasible to hip shoot with .44 mag, .44 special or .45 LC, or would the recoil be too much on the wrist/hand in that position? Thanks!!\ Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nichols Creek, SASS #77627 Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 Called shooting Outlaw. lotta folks doing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subdeacon Joe Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 Called shooting Outlaw. lotta folks doing it. Yep, and you can see the holes from it in the benches at most any range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ninjandrew Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 Oops. Sorry, I always thought outlaw was wax... I guess Ill need to pause the videos and do some more reading. What are the common calibers? 44. special I imagine? Probably in the 250 grain range? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex M Rugers #6621 Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 44 special will not be common in any CAS disipline. Nor 44 mag. Most common is 38/357 and 45 Colt. More research might be in order. Rex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BJT Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 I am kinda partial to .44Special. I have enjoyed the matches I shot with a pair of super blackhawks. Outlaw is not everybody's cup of tea, like gunfighter, it is great for those who know how and like duelist, not the best idea for trying the first time at a match. Hip shooting, by those who are practiced and know how, is fun to watch and very safe. Kinda like almost any gun shooting. Cheers, BJT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fast Harley,SASS#34953 Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 Hello from East Tennessee, the home of the Smoky Mountain Outlaw! Outlaw-style means shooting revolvers and shotgun from the hip, rifle can be shouldered or shot from the hip. Pistols are shot duelist or gunfighter style-no traditional in Outlaw! Yes, Outlaw shooters use real bullets, shoot the same SASS-approved ammo and use the same SASS-approved firearms as all the rest of us shooters. Most Outlaws in our area shoot .38's, 45's, 44-40's. There are even Lady Outlaws in this part of the country! Clubs throughout TN, NC, GA, KY, and AL recognize Outlaw as a shooting category in monthly matches-we have several of the best Outlaw shooters in this area. As well as being recognized at monthly matches, the following matches recognize Outlaw as a category- Mid West Regional Comin' at Cha U.S. Open Tn State NC State KY State GA State AL State Check out the website-outlawshooters.com-for more info on this style of shooting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squint Westwood SASS#2165 Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 I have been shooting double duelist from the hip for years. I hold each gun waist high in front of me. Last match I shot, I only missed two pistol targets out of 60. Didn't shoot any tables or benches. I'm not the fastest guy, but I try not to miss. BTW, I use factory equivalent .45 Colt loads. I have fun challenging myself this way. Happy trails, Squint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady T Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 Howdy! You might also check out the Smoky Mountain Shoot-Out coming up this April, 7 thru 9. That shoot also recognizes and awards the Outlaw category! Go to: www.smssgazette.com Click on the Smoky Mountain Outlaw for more info. It's a GREAT shoot!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283 Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 Howdy I have done a little hip shooting with my Black Powder rounds. I actually cheat a little bit and hold the gun far enough in front so that I can see the barrel and make sure the round is going to impact the berm. Remember, it is not a SASS rule, but a lot of local clubs, in more populous areas, have very strict rules against a round going over the berm. It rates a Match DQ just about every place I shoot. Not for the novice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madd Mike #8595 Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 its knot for every-1 but like anything else practice it safely its a blast, and you can git gud at it 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Dave Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 And check with the match director before ya do it at a match, there are some clubs and ranges that do not allow it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Boy Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 I'm a point and aim shooter with revolvers from the hip and thoroughly enjoy doing it when they allow me at matches. There are days that I have less misses than FC Duelist or Traditional. A few yeas back, we had a scenario that the revolvers - rifle and shotgun were all point and aim from hip to plaster board targets. That day - shot the scenario clean! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Bob #35998 Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 Some local rules and ranges prohibit hip shooting. Always check first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Houston # 35508 Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 The absolute Best Outlaw Shooter is T-Bone Dooley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tucson Jim Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 Some people can shoot from the hip naturally. Most people can't. The people who can't can be trained to do so under range conditions and possibly even match conditions, but in a real fight it will all fall apart in spectacular fashion unless they were in fact a natural. Jelly Bryce was a natural. He was quite possibly the single most deadly handgun fighter in US history. He signed on with the FBI after a short career in local law enforcement and used to do fugitive felon takedowns solo - today, in the same situation they'd send in an entire SWAT team. They tried to clone Jelly's shooting technique on a mass scale. This 16 minute video from 1961 shows the resulting FBI doctrines that have now been abandoned for the sort of thing Jack Weaver came up with in the 1950s. If you're going to try and shoot an SA from the hip, the old-school FBI method first taught by Bryce would be a good place to start: ViX9D9TJ8k8 Here's Jelly Bryce and Bill Jordan - Bill is taller . Jordan used a more upright stance, Bryce more of a crouch. Note that both have their shooting eye over the sight, which is probably useful. http://www.bobtuley.com/jelly_jordan.jpg Personally, I can't shoot from the hip worth a dang so it's not for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Junky Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 You can shoot from the hip or shoot it like it came out of the box......but nothin' beats using the sights.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Rick, SASS #49739L Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 You can shoot from the hip or shoot it like it came out of the box......but nothin' beats using the sights.... T-Bone won Midwest Classic overall as Outlaw - Clean match to go with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tn Tombstone Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 I have to agree, T-Bone is the best Outlaw shooter I have ever gotten to see. (He does have a tendency to Double Discharge which is a P according to PWB), but He could spot me a P on every stage and would still beat me. He has also won CC, GF, duelist and double duelist and several other categories. I have heard a rumor he is going back to CC so he can have a little competition. All that being said Practice, Practice, Practice before you try this in a match. It is fun, I have shot hundreds of matches Outlaw, no holes in any bench or table due to Outlaw shooting, no holes in my deck at my range due to Outlaw shooting. Much like GF, we strong suggest that shooter start with what they know and go from there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noz Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 The absolute Best Outlaw Shooter is T-Bone Dooley We had the privilege of watching TBone shoot a few stages "Outlaw" at the Bayou Blast. Awesome! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tucson Jim Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 T-bone is very likely wired mentally a lot like Jelly Bryce. People like that are damned dangerous foes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Possum Skinner, SASS#60697 Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 I don't think it would be very pleasant to shoot full-power 44 mags one-handed from the hip. Hot 45's wouldn't meet my definition of fun either. Possum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buck D. Law, SASS #62183 Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 T-bone is very likely wired mentally a lot like Jelly Bryce. People like that are damned dangerous foes. "Wired" is an excellent word to describe T-Bone's shooting. Yes, he has practiced a lot, but he is the most instinctive shooter that I have ever seen in CAS. While I have been fortunate to stand in the winners circle with the many of the finest gunfighters in this game (you don't have to be super fast, just fast enough), I have yet to finish in front of T-Bone even when he was shooting outlaw. His shooting ability is only exceeded by his understanding of the game and tendency to think outside the box that leads him to put on matches that people love to attend. If T-Bone's involved, you're gonna have a good time. Yes, he does it with a team, but that is yet another example of his abilities...he puts together a phenomenal team. My hat is always off to him. There is one thing he does even faster than he shoots...talk. As if I can say anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Houston # 35508 Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 I have to agree, T-Bone is the best Outlaw shooter I have ever gotten to see. (He does have a tendency to Double Discharge which is a P according to PWB) Not True!! Check the timer after he shoots...all shots are recorded! It just sounds like they are shot at the same time because it's SO FAST!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adirondack Jack, SASS #53440 Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 Several of us tried it at the last shoot of the fall, and a couple of us agreed to shoot Outlaw all year this year. LIKE AHY TYPE OF SHOOTING, yer best off starting out SLOW, get yer fundamentals down before ya turn up the speed. You will NOT shoot faster than ya can shoot clean still applies...... As to shooting anything yer not supposed to, yer still allowed to look AT the guns, just not to use the sights, so if ya look at where they are pointed, yer unlikely to put a round over the berm or into a prop. PS, several of us had more trouble with the SG than the pistols...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Junky Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 I've seen T-bone do it a few years ago and it was ssssweeet.....but that said it's true a good shooter can hit SASS targets at SASS distances but you still can't beat using the sights when the the targets get smaller. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ninjandrew Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 Thanks for all the replies guys. Awesome video Tucson Jim, very practical. With luck Ill be getting a new Vaquero soon. I was thinking of starting off using the sights, gradually trying to shoot faster as my accuracy improves, and eventually hip shooting. I suppose once I decide to work on my speed, Ill probably need to get the gun tweaked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forty Rod SASS 3935 Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 There was a time right after gunpowder was invented (early '60s) when I was very proficient shooting from the hip with a .45 SAA with a 5 1/2" barrel. Dad taught me how at the same time he taught me one-handed slip thumbing. Out to about 20-25yards I was almost as good as I was aiming it. These days I couldn't stand in boxcar and hit the walls with or without sights. Lack of practice and age, y'know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waimea Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 When shooting Outlaw for the first time, you must remember one thing.... ...Bring at least two boxes of shotgun shells. Cuz you're gonna need em. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Houston # 35508 Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 When shooting Outlaw for the first time, you must remember one thing.... :lol: :lol: :lol: ...Bring at least two boxes of shotgun shells. Cuz you're gonna need em. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Mingo Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 Heee Haaa .. Check out Duece Stevens, Gunner Gattling, and me Shooting a PaleRider Outlaw Match.. What a Hoot..Go to Youtube.com search Crazy Mingo.. Heeee Haaa Lots of FUN.. with plenty of grinns.. Heee Haaa Crazy Mingo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ninjandrew Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 Looking for an opinion: When I get my Vaquero, should I get it adjusted for fast draw/CAS type action right away, or wait until Im proficient first? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smuteye John SASS#24774 Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 CAS and Fastdraw are two completely different animals unless you are doing the Cowboy fast draw thing and it's not as widespread as you think. If I remember correctly, it pretty much requires a CAS legal gun without all of the fast draw mods. Don't worry about action work out of the box. To tell the truth, it is very doubtful that you will be good enough initially to reap any benefit from them and some of the things done to Rugers are more about personal preference anyhow. You best bet would be shoot them enough to get familiar with the manual of arms and to establish a basic level of proficiency, then show up at a match and learn to compete with them. After a few matches, you'll have a far better grasp on what works and don't work for YOU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowhand Bob, 24229 Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 Personally I think it will go away. We allow to many new shooters or old timers who are legends in their own mind try unpracticed skills under match conditions. Only a small few in our sport are truely as disciplined as they think they are and will tend to slip into bad habits under the pressures at the shooting line. The super bad one for hip shooting is a finger on the trigger of a pistol with a cocked hammer and this will eventually catch up with us. I have tried it a few times under dry fire conditions and accept that it is not for me and would personally like to see some slow-mo film of many of our guys who have the 'got it covered' teenager attitude. There is a sport for fast draw hip shooting out there and it has safety requirements built in that partially offset the hazards of this type shooting style. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tn Tombstone Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 Like I have always said Bob, it aint for everyone but for those of us who do enjoy it, it is the only way to go. If I shoot a stage clean in 20 seconds and you shoot it clean in 20 seconds what is the differance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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