Lone Dog, SASS #20401 Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 Stage 6 The Saloon. Shoot a pistol, re-holster, reach for the rifle staged on the bar. Grab it by the wrist and sweep it left into free space. The forearm snags and my left/off hand somehow fails to intercept it. For a micro-second the rifle twists in my right hand before I can re-acquire the master grip. Meanwhile the rifle muzzle swivels down to a point on the floor really really close to the 170. I get the left hand on it and get it back level. At this point I am totally freaked out. I have had a lot of train-wrecks in my CAS career but never this one. As I get the rifle trained on R1 I ask the TO "did I break it (meaning the 170)" and he says no. I cannot recall who was spotting or if any of them said anything or not. Finish the stage and slink off to the ULT without any debate or furthur discussion. Then we go to lunch and I didn't think about it because well y'all know how the witty repartee at bean time goes. Next stage. I go up to the LT and load up but the last stage has begun to prey upon my mind. Same TO. I approach the firing point and say "you know what, fellers I believe I MDQed on that last stage. TO says no you didn't. Everyone else on the posse agrees and I finish the match. 1. In the micro second between my right hand losing the master grip and imperceptively fast to the others re-acquiring it -- was that a match DQ or not? 2. If the muzzle came to the midpoint of the right boot is that a match DQ? How about if it came equal to the toe? To the heel -- no question that would be at or past the 180 much less the 170. I really can't say how far back the muzzle came or whether I was even looking down. Too busy. 3. Should I just chalk it up to my lucky day and accept the verdict of the stage officials and quit beating myself up about it? 4. Can the shooter over-rule a call in his favor if he believes the call is in error? After the match at the bull session the concensus among the older heads with mucho experience above the local level is that at the instant the right hand lost control even for such a short micro-second that no one else could have discerned it -- the MDQ was incurred. I tend to agree. Which means if you read this Floss, ya beat me agin. And that guy that hangs around with ya too. Daddurnit. Oh well. What do y'all think? Just a friendly little local match and all but still, right is right... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusty Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 You probably aren't the right person to make the call. If the RO/TO and spoters say you didn't, well then you porbably didn't. My $.02. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dubious Don #56333 Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 It's "dropped" or its not.. It "broke" the 170 or it didn't... TO says you didn't.... You didn't. NEXT SHOOTER! (And yes, the shooter can argue/call a penalty on himself/herself) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mustang Gregg Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 You're okay. The TO has spoken. If you wanna DQ yourself, I reckon that's all up to you. Mustang Gregg, TG PS--I have called myself on a P a few times, that the TO didn't catch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nasty Newt # 7365 Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 Let it gooooooooooooooooo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 You're thinkin' TOO much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Boots, # 20282 LTG-Regulator Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 I agree with others. If you indeed lost control of gun there was a violation but it happened so fast it was not caught by TO or spotters. Calling it on yourself is honorable but not particularly your place to do so. Take your free ride,give yourself BOD as you would another shooter. You'll probably get a call on you someday that you don't deserve so you can just figure it will balance out. I was PM one year at WR and I had some really good spotters and TOs in the group. I shot a stage, score was given and recorded when later I realized I shot it in the wrong order. I asked the scorekeeper to change my score, she told me it was not noticed by spotters or TO so it should not be done. I continued to ask for penalty to point I would not have it any other way. Scorekeeper told me sheet had already been picked up so I marched to stat house and ask for the P. Somewhere along the way I met another pretty dern good shooter telling him of my senerio and he told me about what I told you about it all balancing out. I still felt better about the deal, but have since learned that it indeed was not up to me as a shooter (perhaps more so since I ws PM). In fact we now have a rule in place saying that unless decision is put on hold by PM such a change is not to be made once another shooter has begun (or something on that line, not sure of exact wording). Your error was so brief, it was not caught by others, but bet you will remember it & learn from it, thats worth a lot. As someone else said, "Next Shooter". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Dog, SASS #20401 Posted March 13, 2011 Author Share Posted March 13, 2011 You're thinkin' TOO much. Yeah...workin' without tools agin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goody, SASS #26190 Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 From the RO1 course materials; "23. Any unloaded gun dropped during a stage will result in Stage Disqualification. Dropped unloaded guns away from the line will be a no call. A shooter is forbidden from picking up a dropped gun. The Range Officer will recover the gun, examine it, clear it (if necessary), return it to the shooter, and assess the penalty. A dropped loaded gun is a Match Disqualification. An open, empty long gun that slips and falls after being set down and does not break the 170° safety rule or sweep anyone will result in either a “Prop Failure” call or a 10-second Minor Safety Violation, depending upon the circumstance. As long as the shooter has contact with the firearm, it is considered as still in their control. No call should be made until the firearm comes to rest – wherever that may be. Then determine the condition of the firearm at rest and whether or not the 170° safety rule was ever broken on its way to its final resting point in order to assess the proper penalty (if any at all). The folks who's job it was said you didn't break the 170, and from your description I don't think you ever dropped the gun. Quit beating yourself up over this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steeldust Dan, SASS #2631Life Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 Hey, at least no one threw a cow pie at you. Your Pard, Steeldust Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Dave Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 Live and learn. Go clean the guns, reload some ammo and move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Dog, SASS #20401 Posted March 13, 2011 Author Share Posted March 13, 2011 Hey, at least no one threw a cow pie at you. Your Pard, Steeldust Dan Yes, she did. Several times today. But her aim was not so unerring as in the past. And I'm gettin' better at blockin' and duckin'... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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