Celilo Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 I have been using Swiss 2f in my 45-90. Can't find any more locally so I'm looking at ordering online and paying the hazmat fees. Looking at GOEX and I'm already confused (again) as to what powder to get. They have 2f, Express 2f, Cartridge Rifle and Cowboy Action. What is the difference between them. I already looked at the GOEX web site and it didn't have much info as to different uses or recomendations. Any help is appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex M Rugers #6621 Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 I am cetainly no expert , but can relay what I have read on this and other BP websites. For what you are loading , 2f will work O.K. , Cartridge will also , but is discontinued by Goex , as is Cowboy. Dealers probably have some in stock , but thats it. Express 2f is a higher grade (supposedly) to compete with Swiss. Some shooters report very good results with it. Cowboy is a kinda mix of 2f and 3f , I use it in my CAS loads , never tried it in a rifle caliber. In your 45-90 you could also use Swiss 1 1/2f or Goex 1f if they are available. Good luck , Rex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 Although there's a picture of a can of Cowboy on their products page, it's the one that's discontinued. Cartridge is still available as of the last word I got. Cartridge is a mix between their FFg and FFFg, with some additional coatings to keep it from "powdering" in a cartridge case. Specifically for rifle cartridge calibers. I use quite a bit of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abilene Slim SASS 81783 Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 I have been using Swiss 2f in my 45-90. Can't find any more locally so I'm looking at ordering online and paying the hazmat fees. Not sure what online sources you're looking at, but you might want to check here. You can order in 5lb lots and the price includes hazmat fees. http://www.powderinc.com Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Boy Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 Looking at GOEX and I'm already confused (again) as to what powder to get. They have 2f, Express 2f, Cartridge Rifle and Cowboy Action. What is the difference between them. Celilo, the difference is ... different granulation mixes in the cans and prices. FFg 20 mesh - 79.2% retained 30 mesh - 20.8% retained Express FFg 12 mesh – Trace retained 14 mesh – 0.35% retained 20 mesh – 89.59% retained 30 mesh – 9.47% retained 40 mesh – 0.22% retained Through – 0.37% Is processed with more polishing time and is the $$$$ one. If folks don't start buying it, a candidate to be discontinued too... unless Goex wants to keep chasing Swiss thinking Express is a 'premium, moist burning' powder ... which it ain't! Plus if it was such a great powder, why don't the top ranked NRA Match shooters use it - which they don't Cartridge 12 mesh – 0.62% retained 14 mesh – 0.03% retained 20 mesh – 97.54% retained ... Griff, note. It's just a FFg powder 30 mesh – 01.70% retained Through – 0.11% Discontinued - I stocked up before it's all gone. CTG has a lower velocity than Swiss 1.5Fg but the only Goex powder I shoot in my BPC rifles, 38-55, 45-70, 45-90 and 50-70 Cowboy 20 mesh - 32.9% retained 30 mesh - 64.9% retained Through - 2.2% Discontinued - Never was a BPCR powder IMHO. The granulation mix was made specifically for the CAS crowd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Windshadow Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 let me plug http://www.mainepowderhouse.com/ If you are used to the clean burning Swiss then Goex will require adjustment in your 45-90 loading and shooting I still use Swiss in my long range paper patch 45-90 but for CAS loads I use Schuetzen fff and when I start loading shotgun shells I think Reenactor will do fine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jefro, SASS#69420 Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 Howdy Celilo, you can get Schuetzen for the same price as Goex. Made with German Alder Charcoal, burns much cleaner than Goex. Most suppliers offer free shipping and/or hazmat for 25-50 lbs. Graf and Son's house brand is Schuetzen. Deer Creek also carries it, but I can't find thier number. Good Luck Maine Powder House Graf and Sons Jefro Relax-Enjoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chancy Shot, SASS #67163 Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 Another good source for powder is Crater Fireworks. He is local for me and a nice fellow. He is supporting the St Judes Charity Shoot this year. http://addictedtoblackpowder.com/2.html Chancy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Pony Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 If you are used to shooting Swiss the Goex is going to be dirtier and wont pack as much punch. The Schutzen, or Grafs house brand, will be a better choice and it is now my one brand one grade powder for everything, shotgun, main match and long range. Maine Powder house covers hazmat and shipping when you order it by the case and will sell 5 lbs at a time IIRC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Boy Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 Let me pass on some information I heard 'on the street' ... KIK, a Slovenia powder manufacturer, sent 3 shipments of their powder into the US - 2004, 2007 and 2010 I've shot the 2004 and 2007 powder in my BPC rifles and still use it for my CAS shotgun shells. It has a real fast burn rate but is a dirty fouling powder. A test comparison was done and showed that KIK put Goex to shame in the velocity drag race. Now for the information. I was told ... the 2010 shipment of KIK is a much cleaner burning powder and still is a speed demon. Plus it is one of the less costlier black powders. So, it sounds like KIK has done some reformulation processing for their 2010 powder And KIK is one of the only 3 powders on the market that uses Alder Buckthorn wood for their charcoal. Good charcoal with a 65% fixed carbon content and a high glucose content makes for excellent powder ignition because it is the oxidizer. And charcoal is the 'engine' of black powder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Bob #35998 Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 Let me pass on some information I heard 'on the street' ... KIK, a Slovenia powder manufacturer, sent 3 shipments of their powder into the US - 2004, 2007 and 2010 I've shot the 2004 and 2007 powder in my BPC rifles and still use it for my CAS shotgun shells. It has a real fast burn rate but is a dirty fouling powder. A test comparison was done and showed that KIK put Goex to shame in the velocity drag race. Now for the information. I was told ... the 2010 shipment of KIK is a much cleaner burning powder and still is a speed demon. Plus it is one of the less costlier black powders. So, it sounds like KIK has done some reformulation processing for their 2010 powder And KIK is one of the only 3 powders on the market that uses Alder Buckthorn wood for their charcoal. Good charcoal with a 65% fixed carbon content and a high glucose content makes for excellent powder ignition because it is the oxidizer. And charcoal is the 'engine' of black powder KIK comparison Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irish ike, SASS #43615 Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 If you have been using Swiss Powder Inc. still gets it Ike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283 Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 Howdy +1 on Schuetzen. If you don't want to spend as much as for Swiss, but still want a superior powder to anything Goex makes, for about the same price as Goex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Boy Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 Postscript to Driftwood's post ... Wano reformulated their Schuetzen powder. The latest lots have a velocity increase between 8 to 10% Source: James Kirland, owner Schuetzen Powder LLC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283 Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 Hey John Boy. Any idea what those lot numbers are? I don't want to have to run everything through the chronograph again just to maintain my pinpoint accuracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairshake Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 Utah Bob, That article that you posted looks to be the same as one given to me a few years back from a gentleman who lives in Reading,PA. He is as far as I am concerned one of the most knowledgeable in the country on BP. Griff, You are the second or third person who I have seen post this info about the Express and Cartridge powders and it is false. this is shown by the screen results posted by John Boy. You will always find any other BP that is made outside of the USA to give different grain sizes. I feel that it is the difference between our decimal and the metric systems. The new Diamondback powder from Brazil has shown some good results with loadings for SASS matches. They had German BP makers show them how to make the powder. They are using the old Elephant Powder Company equipment but with all new personal. The Chemical company that made the purchase has a office in PA. with the main one in Canada. I have not had a chance to do any testing other than firing and using the powder in SASS matches. It does clean up faster than standard Goex. I have used both the 2 and 3F powders. Later Fairshake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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