Silver Jack Hammer, SASS #56398 Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 This Sharps shooter tells me the Uberti '73 rifle does not have a block in the firing pin like the original Winchester and has taken shooters eye out. Has anybody actually seen or know of the firing pin of an Italian '73 rifle firing pin flying out and taking a shooter's eye out? I have an Italian '73 and love it, shoot it. There are a lot of these rifles at the clubs I shoot at and have never heard of such a problem with them. I asked my local gunsmith and he said he had never heard of such a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Three Foot Johnson Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 Oh absolutely. I know a guy who had a friend who knew someone in another state who used to shoot with a guy whose neighbor's former tenant had an uncle whose cousin's ex-girlfriend's nephew's former roommate's brother actually saw it happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wishbone Hooper #9310 Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 Oh absolutely. I know a guy who had a friend who knew someone in another state who used to shoot with a guy whose neighbor's former tenant had an uncle whose cousin's ex-girlfriend's nephew's former roommate's brother actually saw it happen. Hey J Bar, I think I knew that guy, the one that saw it happen... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Rick, SASS #49739L Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 Oh absolutely. I know a guy who had a friend who knew someone in another state who used to shoot with a guy whose neighbor's former tenant had an uncle whose cousin's ex-girlfriend's nephew's former roommate's brother actually saw it happen. I had an uncle who had a friend who knew a guy that knew your friend's cousin. How many 73s are shot how many rounds at how many matches? There really was a guy who had a meteorite crash through his roof. Next house I build - NO ROOF! They attract meteorites. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. Mark Flint #31954 LIFE Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 The bolt of a 1873 contains a firing pin retention cross pin. In the event of an out of battery discharge, this should contain the firing pin. I have experienced an out of battery discharge in an 1873 and the retention cross pin stopped the firing pin . . . but it was slightly bent in the process. The design might fail if the combination of events were that the gun fired out of battery with an excessive charge. I had a full load of BP in a .38-40. My gun fired out of battery due to a removed trigger block, a short stroke kit and user error. The bent pin was the only damage to the gun. The trigger block was replaced before the gun was ever used again. Some folk have modified firing pins and altered lock up on their guns with short stroke kits. At one time there was a aftermarket firing pin that used a set screw to accomplish the retention. The cross pin appears to be hardened steel. I would suggest not replacing it with a pin of unknown material as it could create a safety issue, though I believe the firing pin would be caught by the hammer, absent additional failures. I am not a gunsmith, but I've played doctor more than a few times Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 Uberti changed their design of the firing pin extension to provide a more secure attachment of the FPE to the bolt, about 2 years ago. There have been a few reports of failures of the old style FPE with extremely high pressure loads and perhaps out of battery discharges. If one is concerned, there are a couple of ways to strengthen or replace the FPE and bolt. VTI and Uberti carry parts to completely replace the old style FPE and bolt with a new style. May require headspace setting by selecting a new set of toggle links. As well, there is a conversion performed which adds a set screw in addition to the small cross pin in the old style FPE. If this were a major problem, as the Sharps (dull?) shooter was trying to convince you of, folks in SASS would be abandoning the Uberti old-style 73 rifle in droves. The trend is SLIGHTLY in the other direction . Good luck, GJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. Mark Flint #31954 LIFE Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 Garrison Joe is correct, Uberti offers a complete bolt and firing pin kit and I think it runs about 100 bucks. The cross pin is pretty small, .062 according to my research or 1/16th of an inch. I had considered enlarging the holes, pin and the corresponding slot in the firing pin extension for an additional margin of safety, however, having seen an Out of battery discharge up close and personal, I am not concerned enough to bother. Of course I could just be stupid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WOODFOX , sass#34179 Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 Oh absolutely. I know a guy who had a friend who knew someone in another state who used to shoot with a guy whose neighbor's former tenant had an uncle whose cousin's ex-girlfriend's nephew's former roommate's brother actually saw it happen. That wasn't the kid in Christmas Story was it? Or did he have a Red Ryder ? Woodfox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RICO, SASS #9760LIFE Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 Sorry to burst everybody's bubble but here goes............... "I SAW" a bolt from a '73 exit the rear of the rifle and impact the shooter just above his eye. It did not put out his eye but it did give him a pretty good cut just above his eye. The rifle in question was a .38/.357 cal. rifle and the shooter was an older gentleman but I can not remember his name. This happens at the old "77 Shooters" range in Oak Glen CA. It was at least 7-8 years ago but might have been more. There were several shooters, other than myself, that witnessed this but the only one that I can remember for sure was Capt. Fox. Now, Having seen this happen I have no clue to why/how. At the time the speculation was a double charged round. Whatever it was, It did happen............. Just for the record, I shoot a '73. I believe the problem was not the gun, or it's design, the fault lies elsewhere. RICO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal TKD, Sass # 36984L Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 I heard of a shooter who had his eye put out after a firing pin failure. Apparently it failed and hit the shooter in the forehead, at which point it ricocheted and hit another shooter in the eye who was one stage over. I will cowboy up and accept all of the now junk 73 rifles out there. Please send them to me and I will see that they are properly disposed of. Please only send working rifle with short stroke kits and action jobs already done. These are obviously the most dangerous ones out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SGT. ELI 35882 GUNFIGHTER Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 I do know a guy that took a firing pin extention to the forehead. He had taken his '73 apart, and when he was putting it back together turned the rifle over and the right side link fell out and being new to taking the gun down he did not notice it fall under the bench. He actually managed to shoot 2 or 3 stages before the lever link pin came out of the remaining link. Either the hammer slowed the travel down or it was his cement block forehead that limited the damage to a red mark on his noggin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudflat Mike, SASS #20904 Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 Hey Silver, I've got a real nice brass '92 I'd trade ya for that POS '73 ya got. My Mom always told me I'd put my eye out playing with guns! I'd say your chances of the bolt coming out are about the same as a lighting strike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutch Nichols, SASS #6461 Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 You can make all the jokes you want but I know for a fact that JW lost his eye to a 73 failure in the first True Grit. He THEN switched to a model 92. Jeff Bridges wouldn't listen to his gun handlers and the same thing happened to him last year!! So this is a pretty serious matter!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major 231 (Rider) Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 You can make all the jokes you want but I know for a fact that JW lost his eye to a 73 failure in the first True Grit. He THEN switched to a model 92. Jeff Bridges wouldn't listen to his gun handlers and the same thing happened to him last year!! So this is a pretty serious matter!! Sorry Dutch won't wash ....Roosrer lost the eye in the War, the battle of Lone Jack outside of Kansas City, or so he told Mattie Ross. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contingent Fee McGee, #71885 Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 I have seen the firing pin extension blow out of an 1866 (which does not have the 1873's built in safety that disables the trigger if the lever is not completely closed). The extension flew back over the shooter's shoulder with enough force to put a hole in something, but it missed everybody. I have asked, but no one has ever definitively told me whether the trigger was pulled with the gun out of battery or whether the shooter had a double-loaded cartridge. It was scary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lead Ringer Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 Why is this topic even posted in the classified forum? Isn't the classified forum is for selling stuff! This conversation should be on the SASS wire saloon or the SASS wire forum. oh ya, almost forgot to mention, I lost my right eye shooting my 73'. I had to start shooting left handed and wouldn't you know it, the firing pin extension blew out and lost my left eye! Dozens of cowboys are injured daily!Please stop shooting all 1873's!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boss Hoss Fly #63711 Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 Why is this topic even posted in the classified forum? Isn't the classified forum is for selling stuff!This conversation should be on the SASS wire saloon or the SASS wire forum. oh ya, almost forgot to mention, I lost my right eye shooting my 73'. I had to start shooting left handed and wouldn't you know it, the firing pin extension blew out and lost my left eye! Dozens of cowboys are injured daily!Please stop shooting all 1873's!!! Cause we'll talk guns ANYWHERE- Jest tha way we roll--------------------------------- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Nichols 5118 Life Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 I was there around the time it happened and i personally talked to the guy who thought he saw it happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Bullweed Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 Does this mean that I can stop watching my firing pin extension when I am shooting so that I can occasionally look at my sights and them things that we are supposed to be shooting at??? Sounds like I been worrying and worrying over nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quick Draw Granpaw #48525 Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 How many of you folks are selling your 73'? Let's see 7-8 years ago, right? Has it ever happened again? Human error I'ma thinkin. Happy trails QDG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Tooth Zach Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 Sounds like the classic 'mother BB gun block'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seamus McPistol Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 That was an American Classic Christmas Movie. However I personally know three young boys who shot their eyes out with b.b. guns. Two have glass eyes and one had a retina operation to save his eye, but alas not his vision in that eye. None of the three knew each other. It was not some king of cult. Although God knows there probably is a cult like that out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Blackjack, SASS #58441 Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 sunday, 06MAR11 (9 days ago), san juan range, montrose colorado. first stage. shooter was shooting a uberti '66 in 45LC with all safeties in place. fires the 10th rd, flinches, then lays the rifle on the table, i say to another spotter "look how the smoke is rolling out of the bottom of that rifle". the shooter wipes his forehead with his hand and pulls back a palm full of blood. what happened? the extension left his rifle and impacted his forehead 1/4" above his right eyebrow with enough force to do damage. the cross pin had failed. the hammer did not stop rearward travel of the extension. i shoot a '73 in .38... cbj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Long Branch Louie Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 I heard of a shooter who had his eye put out after a firing pin failure. Apparently it failed and hit the shooter in the forehead, at which point it ricocheted and hit another shooter in the eye who was one stage over. I will cowboy up and accept all of the now junk 73 rifles out there. Please send them to me and I will see that they are properly disposed of. Please only send working rifle with short stroke kits and action jobs already done. These are obviously the most dangerous ones out there. In fact, ALL guns are dangerous and should NOT be used. In an effort to assist Marshall TKD, when sending your rifles to him, I will accept and dispose of all shotguns, Colt, Ruger and Italian revolvers. Your safety is my PRIMARY concern. Anyone with PAIRS of Colts are even more likely to get hurt, so I will pay the shipping on these.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoken D Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 Yep, happen ta me. Firing pin rolled off the bench while I had it appart ta clean. Sucker fell onto my boot then hit the floor. Picked it up and cleaned it off. Then put it back together. Sucker still fired so them 73's a dangerous gun. Ifen ya around Missouri, I'll take em off your hands fer free, no charge even. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Tooth Zach Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 Anyone with PAIRS of Colts are even more likely to get hurt, so I will pay the shipping on these.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bart Solo Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 Sorry Dutch won't wash ....Roosrer lost the eye in the War, the battle of Lone Jack outside of Kansas City, or so he told Mattie Ross. Lone Jack is just down the road. My mother knew a woman whose best friend was the hair dresser of a woman who lived in Lone Jack. Mom told me that she was told that the Lone Jack woman's husband searched their back yard with a war surplus medal dectector. He found the very Red Ryder Ol' Rooster was shooting when he put his eye out. At least that is what my mother told me back when I was a kid growing up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Woodrow Cahill, SASS # 54363 Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 Sorry Dutch won't wash ....Roosrer lost the eye in the War, the battle of Lone Jack outside of Kansas City, or so he told Mattie Ross. Maybe it was the battle of Lone Jack Daniels. I'm not too worried about flying firing pins. Probably have a better chance of getting creamed in a car wreck on the way to the range than anything happening at the range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad Hand Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 I just wear a good pair of shooting (safety) glasses and not worry about it. Doesn't everyone wear eye and hearing protection when shooting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mean Matt McCord, SASS #24683 Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 The bolt of a 1873 contains a firing pin retention cross pin. In the event of an out of battery discharge, this should contain the firing pin. I have experienced an out of battery discharge in an 1873 and the retention cross pin stopped the firing pin . . . but it was slightly bent in the process. The design might fail if the combination of events were that the gun fired out of battery with an excessive charge. I had a full load of BP in a .38-40. My gun fired out of battery due to a removed trigger block, a short stroke kit and user error. The bent pin was the only damage to the gun. The trigger block was replaced before the gun was ever used again. Some folk have modified firing pins and altered lock up on their guns with short stroke kits. At one time there was a aftermarket firing pin that used a set screw to accomplish the retention. The cross pin appears to be hardened steel. I would suggest not replacing it with a pin of unknown material as it could create a safety issue, though I believe the firing pin would be caught by the hammer, absent additional failures. I am not a gunsmith, but I've played doctor more than a few times I remember that. How have you been, by the way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Concho Billy Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 Someone needs to start making rubber firing pins for these fer-un rifles......I told ya'll that this was a dangerous sport.......I'm just gonna watch B-Westerns from now on........I hope that big screen doesn't turn over on my easy chair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283 Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 Howdy Boys I don't think it is at all funny to make jokes about this. There is a significant safety issue and too many are making light of it. Yes, the retaining pin on the Uberti toggle links is very thin and it would not take too much to shear it. Yes, if you remove the trigger safety interlock, it is possible to have an out of battery discharge if the trigger finger brushes the trigger when the lever is closing. Yes, I have seen a '73 lever broken in half because of an out of battery discharge. The shooter had removed said safety device. The bolt flew back with enough force to break the loop off the lever when its backward motion was arrested by his hand. The lever was broken and the shooter had a sore hand. Yes, shooters have been struck by firing pin extensions exiting the gun. No, none appear to have been struck in the eye, the hammer seems to deflect the firing pin extension upwards and most strikes appear to be to the forehead. Yes, Uberti changed the design of the firing pin extension a few years ago because of this safety defect. The original Winchester design did not use an Uberti style pin, the retaining device on the original was more substantial. Recent Uberti toggle link rifles are now more like the original Winchester design. I own an older '73 and an Uberti Henry. My '73 has the same thin retaining pin as any other, I would not dream of removing the trigger safety interlock because of these issues. I did lighten the spring so it is easier to use. My Henry does not have a trigger safety interlock, no Henry or '66 does. Happy Trails installed a socket head screw that rides in a slot milled in the firing pin extension. If the firing pin extension should try to leave the gun, the head of the socket head screw should stop it. I hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Coffinmaker Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 The original cross pin to retain the Firing Pin Extension in Uberti Henry, '66 & '73 rifles was quite thin. It was not hardened. After a spate of Out of Battery Discharges, Uberti changed to a much larger pin. Many of us who build competition rifles were boring out the Breach Block for a larger pin and installing them when we built up guns. The last change was to a Firing Pin Extension retained by a "rocker plate" similar to the original Winchester design. This plate is retained by the link pivot pin. There was also a dimensional change to the frame/hammer that prevented the Firing Pin Extension from exiting the frame without removal of the hammer. This was a change was done because of the lack of a trigger block safety in the '66 and Henry. I haven't personally seen nor heard of anyone being hit in the eye by a Firing Pin Extension Rod. Hit in the cheek and forehead ..... yes. All were caused by the shooter doing something stupid. The new build guns are as safe as any mechanical device can be. The end user on the other hand ............ Coffinmaker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 well....that's why we wear safety glasses - in case of a failure that no one would have expected.. otherwise - I have no expertise with a '73, but would hate for that to happen on my Henry (Uberti). GG ~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manatee Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 I haven't heard of anyone losing an eye, because the hammer deflected the firing pin extension so that it vectored to an area above the eye. For all of the reasons noted above, it's not a good idea to remove the trigger interlock device. Having seen what can happen to 73's and 66's in out of battery discharges, I'd probably not be one to "jon stewart" the issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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