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The Cowboy Chapel Cross / No Cross Crying Towel


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:FlagAm: Well all I can say is that four pages of mostly complaining about the proposed Chapel sans a cross has been somewhat entertaining. I, personally agree that a typical symbol, one that most of us grew up with, belongs at the top of the spire. However, that is where I part company with the majority of you.

I have never thought it in good taste to ask the membership at large to fund this project. The organization known as SASS is for profit. SASS bought the property in New Mexico and moved the headquarters of the organization and EOT there without the consent of the membership. It is the Wild Bunch that dictates what happens and it is their sandbox we all play in. It has been my personal opinion that with said move and buildup of the new location, it is the responsibility of the organization to fund the needed improvements from the funds generated by the paid membership. It was the decision of the owners to create the new venue, not the paying participants.

With that said, many of you that are now complaining have only yourselves to blame. You all embraced this chapel vision with the same wide eyed stare as a school boy looking at his first Playboy centerfold. You are to be commended for the outpouring of contributions and donations. However, this was all done apparently, without knowing or doing research, to find out what you were contributing to. If the vast majority of the membership here planned their retirement in such a manner, get in line for Obama to lend you a helping hand.

At this point, all I can suggest is start acting like the heros you profess to admire. Pull one boot on at a time and stand up for yourselves. It is unfortunate, according to your ideals, that you made a bad investment. But whose fault, as in the majority of cases, is it? Ask Bernie, he can tell you blood curdling tales. How many of you who invested in the construction of this building ever really researched what the final product would be. As investors in this project, did anyone ask for exact details or maybe a contract. Remember, you are giving monies to a for profit business. From the rather heated and disgruntled comments made on the rather lengthy post regarding this subject, I can only come to the conclusion that a whole pot full of assumptions were made and taken for granted.

There is an old saying that has been quoted many times in the history of this sport. Vote with your feet. This applies equally as well to this situation as it does to an improperly run match or club. It will prove interesting to see how many involved who are unhappy with the current situation regarding the Chapel, have the fortitude to do more than snivel here on the wire.

Respectfully,

Chas B. Wolfson

 

P.S. Before anyone here decides to flame me for what is expressed above, please have the maturity to realize that I, as well as everyone else who has aired their thoughts, have the right to do so.

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I really hope folks do not take your advice.

 

I think the concept is bigger than what adorns the outside of the building. Yeah political correctness is a pain in the rear. Much more impacting than the pain would be the loss of the tribute to pards we can't shoot with, for now anyway.

 

The other thread has allowed venting and examination but in the end, I would hold the concept more important than the adornments. As long as nothing denigrates the memory of those passed, are adornments really THAT important?

 

Very Best Regards,

BJT

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I really hope folks do not take your advice.

 

I think the concept is bigger than what adorns the outside of the building. Yeah political correctness is a pain in the rear. Much more impacting than the pain would be the loss of the tribute to pards we can't shoot with, for now anyway.

 

The other thread has allowed venting and examination but in the end, I would hold the concept more important than the adornments. As long as nothing denigrates the memory of those passed, are adornments really THAT important?

 

Very Best Regards,

BJT

 

I agree Black Jack, I am still on board on this.

I have lost some Very Dear Brothers and Sisters and I and Brother Whiney will continue

to do what we can to help in the fundraising efforts.

My mentioning the Cross that is all ready there was just to point out

that we all ready have a Cross at Founders Ranch and I didn't know

that anyone had been upset by it.

I'm gone, Wimpy

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Okie, your memory is better than mine.

 

I can't remember the last one I saw!

 

I'm still thinking about the first Playboy centerfold. :blush::blink:;)

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Okie, your memory is better than mine.

 

I can't remember the last one I saw!

 

 

WELL, I remember my first, or atleast one of the first.

 

Winter of 69, Playboy had a centerfold that had a slight oriental look to her eyes and she was wearing a green plaid skirt. SHORT skirt. Looked like a kilt.

 

Anyhow, I was in the Navy stationed at Norfolk and this particular model reminded me of my sweetheart back home in TN.

 

Thats my story and I'm stickin to it.

 

 

..........Widder

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WELL, I remember my first, or atleast one of the first.

 

Winter of 69, Playboy had a centerfold that had a slight oriental look to her eyes and she was wearing a green plaid skirt. SHORT skirt. Looked like a kilt.

 

Anyhow, I was in the Navy stationed at Norfolk and this particular model reminded me of my sweetheart back home in TN.

 

Thats my story and I'm stickin to it.

 

 

..........Widder

I remember that issue, however I can't recall a kilt??

 

 

RRR

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CBW, yours is a well thought out comment. HOWEVER, the history of the CUSTOMERS, aka "members" of SASS is replete with examples wherin they expect to act like equity partners, each major decision being voted on, and in fact it seems SASS (aka the WB) is complicit to the extent that they, as a company, do much to foster the ILLUSION among "members" that they have some equity rights in terms of decisions, where in fact the truth is SASS members only have ADVISORY voting rights on those items the WB approves for such a vote (in other words, in those cases where SASS itself doesn't really CARE what the outcome is. If the WB is unwilling to risk an outcome, the vote is simply not allowed as the item is not allowed on the TG summit agenda.)

To the best of my knowledge, the chapel project was NEVER subject to a TG summit vote, and is in fact a "joint project" by a couple of members with their hearts in the right place and SASS (the WB) who agreed to host and OWN the resultant structure. To the extent that there is no such thing as "the SASS church" as a legal entity, this building members have provided for the use of their own when at FR is strictly a structure owned by the WB and they can put a "McDonalds" sign on it if they like and there ain't a darned thing the "members" (customers) can do about it except vote with their feet.

 

I suppose most folks who were asked to donate to the raffles and such thought "church, cool idea" and each had their own vision of what that would look like. I don't suppose anybody ever asked for or saw a drawing. If there is to be a chapel for use by members of SASS while at FR, ya got what ya paid for.

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For what it's worth, the Cowboy Memorial "Chapel" falls under the ownership of the SASS Western Heritage Museum which is a non profit corporation as I understand it. Run by the same folks as SASS I would think, but there is a distinction so as to facilitate accepting donations.

 

Cowboy Memorial "Chapel" page

 

Is that a cross at the top of that building? :D

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Okie, your memory is better than mine.

 

I can't remember the last one I saw!

Well I can remember... and her birthday was 1989 ...making her young enough to be my granddaughter. Best I could hope for is that she has poor math skills? B)

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Thanks for reminding me why I quit looking at the danged thing. When pictures of girls like that start getting to be the age of your daughter, well it just takes all the fun out of it.

 

Had any good cigars lately?

 

Very Best Regards,

BJT

 

Well I can remember... and her birthday was 1989 ...making her young enough to be my granddaughter. Best I could hope for is that she has poor math skills? B)

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For what it's worth, the Cowboy Memorial "Chapel" falls under the ownership of the SASS Western Heritage Museum which is a non profit corporation as I understand it. Run by the same folks as SASS I would think, but there is a distinction so as to facilitate accepting donations.

 

Cowboy Memorial "Chapel" page

 

Is that a cross at the top of that building? :D

 

That is indeed a Celtic Cross atop that structure. If you right click and "view image" you will find that it is called church.gif - http://www.sassnet.com/chapel/Images/Church.gif

 

And from that page:

 

We soon discovered our town was lacking a structure most dear to our hearts. Together we recognized our town was lacking a Chapel—a structure where we could worship our God and pay our respects to the many friends who have gone before us. We needed a center of gravity—we needed a Chapel! And now the work has begun. We are now working together to raise the funds necessary to build this noble edifice where we can pray together and rejoice in the memory of our beloved friends who have gone before us.

 

That description, to me, says this is a house of worship/prayer. Not a meeting hall, courthouse, or schoolhouse. Nor a general purpose building. If that description and that image have been used all along for the fund raising, then it is reasonable that those who donated because of that description and image will feel misled if the Cross is removed. It shouldn't take a 20 page contract assuring the donors that the structure shown is a reasonable representation of what will be built.

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Oh boy...another thread on the subject: Just contact the Wild Bunch and send 'em your views and let's see what happens..I wouldn't be surprised if they lurk here on the Wire at times...anyway...with all the attention bein' paid..maybe smarter and less PC oriented heads will prevail.

 

Cross or no cross - this project must happen for our departed amigos!

 

GG ~ :FlagAm:

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Cross or no cross - this project must happen for our departed amigos!

 

GG ~ :FlagAm:

 

Exactly!

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I don't have a dog in this fight and really don't care about the outcome. That said, I'll throw in my $0.02 anyway.

 

As far as I understand this chapel is for all SASS members and open to all faiths. If that is the case, it would be imapproprite for the structure to be permanently adorned with a symbol representing one faith only, even if the overwhelming majority of SASS members adhere to that faith. Services in the chapel on Sunday represent one group. Friday night services, another. Thursday evening, still another. And for atheists like me, a quiet place to get away from the hustle and bustle of major events for a little while.

 

Miltary chapels, most airport and hospital chapels, and school auditoriums (auditoria?) used as chapels in many small towns all get by without permanent symbols of one faith alone. The SASS chapel can do likewise.

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Up here the first "public" building was a Church 1876 ,,,, with a Cross and steeple (the bell came later)... It was also used for School,Dances and Public meetings....

 

 

Jabez Cowboy

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Guest Paniolo Cowboy SASS #75875

"We soon discovered our town was lacking a structure most dear to our hearts. Together we recognized our town was lacking a Chapel—a structure where we could worship our God and pay our respects to the many friends who have gone before us. We needed a center of gravity—we needed a Chapel! And now the work has begun. We are now working together to raise the funds necessary to build this noble edifice where we can pray together and rejoice in the memory of our beloved friends who have gone before us."

 

That sort of cuts to the chase in their own words. Doesn't sound like a bunch of Druids and other heathens. ;)

 

Now seeing that that is what their sales pitch is, then they should live up to it.

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Good Morning,

 

Being a Chritian, the Cross is a symbol many of us respect. Although the image of a fish was the first image early Christians used as an identifier. I could not find a reference where Jesus instructed us to use a cross as a symbol of his love. I would like the Memorial Chapel to be just that. A memorial to those who we've lost & respect as well as a place we all may take pause to meditate, reflect or pray.

 

Vaya con Dios,

Keystone

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Guest Texas Jack Black

"We soon discovered our town was lacking a structure most dear to our hearts. Together we recognized our town was lacking a Chapel—a structure where we could worship our God and pay our respects to the many friends who have gone before us. We needed a center of gravity—we needed a Chapel! And now the work has begun. We are now working together to raise the funds necessary to build this noble edifice where we can pray together and rejoice in the memory of our beloved friends who have gone before us."

 

That sort of cuts to the chase in their own words. Doesn't sound like a bunch of Druids and other heathens. ;)

 

Now seeing that that is what their sales pitch is, then they should live up to it.

 

Quite right you are A chapel to worship as EACH of us feels. not any one religion.

I would ask, was all of our deceased fellow shooters only Christians? or were they of many faiths? Leave this one aone and move on. It is ony showing the continuing intolerance of the SASS wire.

T J B

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And from that page:

 

"We soon discovered our town was lacking a structure most dear to our hearts. Together we recognized our town was lacking a Chapela structure where we could worship our God and pay our respects to the many friends who have gone before us. We needed a center of gravitywe needed a Chapel! And now the work has begun. We are now working together to raise the funds necessary to build this noble edifice where we can pray together and rejoice in the memory of our beloved friends who have gone before us."

 

 

That description, to me, says this is a house of worship/prayer. Not a meeting hall, courthouse, or schoolhouse. Nor a general purpose building. If that description and that image have been used all along for the fund raising, then it is reasonable that those who donated because of that description and image will feel misled if the Cross is removed. It shouldn't take a 20 page contract assuring the donors that the structure shown is a reasonable representation of what will be built.

 

I am not following your logic. The quote does not say "Christian" once. At most, it is exclusive to atheists (fair all things considered), agnostics (maybe, always hard to tell with them) and polytheists. It says nothing to exclude 90%+ of the world's religions nor does it say anything requiring a specific religion much less a symbol of it.

 

Again, I grow weary of political correctness but I think the project is much more important than a Quixodic and marginally supported last stand against political correctness.

 

Very Best Regards,

BJT

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Bottom line is that a chapel on Founder's Ranch is a good idea and it is good that some pards stood up to get 'er done. The cross issue is one to consider, and as a Christian I'd prefer to see one. That said, it is more hospitable to omit it under the circumstances and I support the decision.

It aint about being "PC", it is about being welcoming to all our pards in the sport.

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And I thought advocating SASS approval of a Baptist Category is a silly, hopeless cause. :( But it's a worthy cause. Don't you agree?? ;)

 

Now being serious:

Folks, the owners of SASS will have the title on this building. It is real estate. The owners are having this built for their members/customers use. How the building is funded and built is the decision of the owners. What the building consists of is the decision of the owners. How the building will be used is the decision of the owners. I would have thought that was obvious to all SASS members. :blush:

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I am not following your logic. The quote does not say "Christian" once. At most, it is exclusive to atheists (fair all things considered), agnostics (maybe, always hard to tell with them) and polytheists. It says nothing to exclude 90%+ of the world's religions nor does it say anything requiring a specific religion much less a symbol of it.

 

Again, I grow weary of political correctness but I think the project is much more important than a Quixodic and marginally supported last stand against political correctness.

 

Very Best Regards,

BJT

 

If yer lookin' fer a plurality against PC, this is a good place to find it.

 

Where's my lance?

 

CR

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Artist's conception of final structure?

 

Wait a minute. Is that a cross on it?

Dang this is complicated!

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Artist's conception of final structure?

 

Wait a minute. Is that a cross on it?

Dang this is complicated!

 

Cute one, Bob. But this Church gif is what is being presented to the public as the concept.

 

If you thought you were chipping in for a Colt and got told that it was really an RG, what would you think?

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Cute one, Bob. But this Church gif is what is being presented to the public as the concept.

 

If you thought you were chipping in for a Colt and got told that it was really an RG, what would you think?

 

I wouldn't be too hard on old UB. He's been known to put his finger in the dike.

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Artist's conception of final structure?

 

Wait a minute. Is that a cross on it?

Dang this is complicated!

 

 

Blowin' more wind are ya UB? :P

 

GG `

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Must....

 

 

 

resist....

 

 

:lol:

 

 

Careful..... :lol:

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