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How does .38-55 compare to .45-70?


Muchacho Viejo

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Need some comments fron long range shooters. I have been watching for a good .45-70 so's I can enter the single shot long distance rifle side events...

 

Feller locally has a High-Wall in .38-55 at attractive price. Says it shoots like a .45-70 only with less kick.

 

Would it be suitable for long range CAS sides? :rolleyes:

 

Are brass & bullets readily available, or, should I keep watching for a .45-70?

 

Thanks,

 

 

Muchacho Viejo

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He's right about the recoil. For CAS long range either one will do, I think. Haven't had any experience with either beyond 300 yds or so but I understand that 45-70's have been used, successfully, up to 1,000 yds. I haven't bought any brass for either for quite a while. If brass can't be found at the regular sites, then you can always buy some loaded ammo from places like Black Hills and get some reloadable brass that way.

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You have to remember that SASS "long range" events are pretty much limited to 300 yards or less and the only objective is to hit a steel plate and not knock it over. With those being the conditions, the 38-55 is a fine cartridge for long range shooting at SASS events. It definitely has less recoil. Brass, bullets, and dies are readily available from several suppliers. My favorite is Buffalo Arms Company.

 

If you're thinking about hunting with the gun then you have to consider that the 45-70 carries substantially more knockdown power. Knockdown power is also relevant if you're going to try blackpowder silhouette shooting.

 

My second rifle in 38-55 is on order from Shiloh. I've owned several 45-70s through the years. I have a Shiloh in 45-110. They're all great guns and a lot of fun within the parameters that each offers.

 

P.S. If I found a a High-Wall in 38-55 at an "attractive price", I'd pounce on it in a heartbeat. You won't be disappointed.

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Have quite a bit of experience with both. For my money, the 38-55 works best in levergun matches, typically out to 3-400 yds, but prefer the 45-70 for single shot matches out to 700 yds plus. There is a noticeable difference in wind drift at distance between a 280 grain pill from a 38-55 and a 530 grain slug from a 45-70. Of course out here in the open country of northern NV we have legitimate long range shooting - if your club range is restricted to short range (300 yds or less), either works well, but far more components typically available for a 45-70 than 38-55.

 

Best Regards,

Kid Colter

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Shoot a 300+ grain bullet and start it out at 1,300 Fps. and it (.38-55) will both shoot flater and have less wind drift than a normal 45-70 load ..... Won't hit as hard though ,,,,,,, but we isn't trying ta kill things ...

Several top longrange shooters up here use the .38-55 at 1,100 yards and less .... I have two levers in .38-55 and one in .45-70 ,,,, But my longrange gun of choice is a Highwall in .40-65 shooting either 370 or 410 gr. bullets ...

 

Hope this helps ....

 

Jabez Cowboy

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I've got both and I would have to say I get better accuracy out of my 45-70 however, this isn't a slam on the 38-55. I shoot just as well with it, just that it was "easier" working up a load wit hthe 45-70.

 

One issue you will find with the 38-55 is in some rifles, chambers are cut for 375-376 bullets but the bore is 379-380 (H&R) and this can not only make chambering a cartridge a problem if you try to cram a big bullet into a small chamber but if you use a smaller bullet that is .001 or .002 smaller than the bore, accuracy might not be what you want. My H&R has a .380 bore. Any bullet bigger than .377 won't chamber reliably. I use a 250gr .377 bullet that chambers just a little tight but it slightly undersize for the bore. Shoots "ok" to 300 but I suspect that it would do better if the bullet fit the bore better. Even though this rifle doesn't perform as well as I know it could, that load works just fine for CAS. Six inches at 300 yards. My 45-70 on the other hand will do four inches or better easily. I use a 405 bullet in that.

 

Where the 45-70 really shines is windy conditions. With a solid full value cross wind above 10mph, those 405's hardly notice. The 38-55 250's on the other hand don't buck the wind as well but if you know how much the wind moves the bullet you can still calculate it. No big deal. I find it's easier wit hthe 45-70 because I know how much a crosswind will move the bullet at a given range and up to a certain point, I know I can still hold center and get hits on a typical plate (provided I do my part and don't jerk,flinch.sneeze) :blink:

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Would it be suitable for long range CAS sides?

Absolutely Yes for CAS 'long range' which usually are distances less than the NRA LR matches.

 

Example, I have a couple of 325gr bullet recipes for the 38-55 using black powder that produce stellar groups on the Rams at 500 meters. Even after many sighters, I've put a bullet on a 1000yd target using this same recipe in the 38-55

 

38-55 brass is available but it is a seasonal production

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Howdy MV!

+1 to what DD said re: H&R 38-55. I bought one last year to use at Fort Parker long range. Took it to my local club and was lucky to have hit the dirt with it. Found the barrell sluged out to .380 and the factory ammo I had was .376. A fellow shooter rented a .400 reamer from MidWay and asked if I wanted him to hand ream mine when he did his (opened up the throat I think it was). Wow--what a difference. She takes my re-loads slick as you please where before they wouldn't seat completely in the chamber. I get cast lead 265gr .381 from Montana Swaged with the SPG lube. I have a peach of a long range rifle for about $400 and change (includes $25 for half rent fee for reamer). Sounds like a win-win to me. The only thing is that H&R no longer offers the 1871 Buffalo Target model in 38-55. They still have the 45-70 version. You want low price to get into the long range game. Man it's all that and a bag of chips! :D

 

Snaps to all--S.G.

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Thanks all! I bought the rifle! It came with some new, unfired - unprimed brass that mic's out to 2.075" overall. I see brass of different lengths available, some as long as 2.130". What's that all about?

 

It also came with a box of cast bullets, 250 gr round nose, that mic out to .378 I believe. Haven't had a chance to slug/mic the bore, or chamber, but hope I'll be able to deal with what issues those measurements might dictate.

 

Its a beautiful rifle and I look forward to shooting it learning more about it! :)

 

 

Muchacho Viejo

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Pard ;

 

The short brass is the "New" lenght and will work in all chambers ,,, The longer stuff mostly is restricted to older guns,, though some manufactures cut the chambers to the "Original" lenght ...

 

Have fun with it .... As stated above opening up the chamber to accept "Fatter" bullets isn't hard to do nor expensive ...

 

 

 

Jabez Cowboy

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stick a bullet in a fired case so it's 'long", and feed it gently into your action, closing the action on it, forcing the bullet down into the brass. Carefully remove the round and note the length. That is your OAL MAX for your gun. The closer you get to that the better. If it means using long cases, do so.

 

A reallly competitive feller who generally wins the 300 yard event uses a .38-55 loaded this way. He uses fired cases, reprimed but not sized, and enough BP so that when he compresses the BP with a .030 wad on top, a bullet seated by hand will JUST touch the lands when it is loaded into his gun. This feller can put 10 rounds into a fist-sized group at 300 yards easily.

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I have a Browning High Wall in .38-55 but have not worked up a good load for it. I'm using load data that I got of John Boy but will tweak it a little when the range dries out. I like the round a lot better than the .45-70 under about 500 yards. I have several rifles in .45-70 but find the 38-55 easier to shoot on the shoulder. I find the females likes it hands down better than the .45-70.

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