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I'm not gonna go so far as to say, "I told you so".....................yes I am, I TOLD YOU SO!

 

Almost from the moment I joined this site I've heard the cliche that "The Wire ain't SASS". From the first time I heard that I've disagreed and said so. The Wire IS SASS because in today's world, the first thing people see of an organization is quite often their website. As some of you know, a thread was started on a different site asking people why they aren't Cowboy Action Shooters. Here's a reply:

 

They could START by NOT JUMPING DOWN PEOPLES THROATS when they sign up and ask a simple question about the rules.

 

A year or more ago, I had become very interested in joining, so I signed up for the SASS wire forum....

 

I had the NERVE to ask why the rules exclude many historical weapons from competition, and got a non answer ("because the rules say so" ).

 

I THEN had the GALL to politely point out that my question was blatantly ignored... and that invoked a 3 page "pile on the noob" retaliation.

 

In the end, one of the senior members came along and said something to the effect of "because we are not a historical shooting group, and we are only concerned with recreating inaccurate 1950's spaghetti westerns."

 

That sealed the deal for me. I will never be in ANY CAS group, let alone the SASS.

 

The No.1 problem for the SASS IS the SASS. The very members who are posting in that thread ARE THE ONES WHO DRIVE PEOPLE OFF.

 

And this person is NOT an isolated example. We've all seen it on here many times before. You don't have to be all sunshine and roses but good Lord, why on Earth would you treat a new person, who really wants to be part of our group, like dirt? That's disgusting. If you can't say anything nice, how 'bout you just keep your yap shut? Telling someone the truth is exactly what we're supposed to do but, you can tell the truth without acting like an ass. It's high time we started ACTING like the nice folks we all prance around CLAIMING to be.

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The SASS wire is no worse and better than some internet groups, there are bullies on it just like all other groups that wouldn't say to your face the things they do on the wire. While it is very unfortunate we drive some people away the majority of posters do try to help. If people are savy enough to find us on the WEB they should be aware of internet groups as a whole and take the good with the bad. Like a lot of others I found cowboy action shooting before I found SASS, I went to a match and was hooked. The people welcomed me like I was a long lost rich relative. That's what cowboy action shooting is, it's not SASS Wire. When newbies ask questions there are always several responses like "go to a local match and ask questions" that's the best advice anyone can give. We will never change the idiots than denigrate others, the only hope is that the Moderators will remove them from posting or edit their responses.

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BCB well said!

 

 

Not only do we alienate others but we don't treat each other very well.

Numerous rude and unnecessary comments are made during heated discussions.

These are often misinterpreted by newbies to the SASS Wire.

 

I wonder if some of these rule discussions, that get heated, shouldn't be moved to a members only wire area.

So the newbies can see only good.

"Censorship"

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I'm not gonna go so far as to say, "I told you so".....................yes I am, I TOLD YOU SO!

 

Almost from the moment I joined this site I've heard the cliche that "The Wire ain't SASS". From the first time I heard that I've disagreed and said so. The Wire IS SASS because in today's world, the first thing people see of an organization is quite often their website. As some of you know, a thread was started on a different site asking people why they aren't Cowboy Action Shooters. Here's a reply:

 

They could START by NOT JUMPING DOWN PEOPLES THROATS when they sign up and ask a simple question about the rules.

 

A year or more ago, I had become very interested in joining, so I signed up for the SASS wire forum....

 

I had the NERVE to ask why the rules exclude many historical weapons from competition, and got a non answer ("because the rules say so" ).

 

I THEN had the GALL to politely point out that my question was blatantly ignored... and that invoked a 3 page "pile on the noob" retaliation.

 

In the end, one of the senior members came along and said something to the effect of "because we are not a historical shooting group, and we are only concerned with recreating inaccurate 1950's spaghetti westerns."

 

That sealed the deal for me. I will never be in ANY CAS group, let alone the SASS.

 

The No.1 problem for the SASS IS the SASS. The very members who are posting in that thread ARE THE ONES WHO DRIVE PEOPLE OFF.

 

And this person is NOT an isolated example. We've all seen it on here many times before. You don't have to be all sunshine and roses but good Lord, why on Earth would you treat a new person, who really wants to be part of our group, like dirt? That's disgusting. If you can't say anything nice, how 'bout you just keep your yap shut? Telling someone the truth is exactly what we're supposed to do but, you can tell the truth without acting like an ass. It's high time we started ACTING like the nice folks we all prance around CLAIMING to be.

 

 

+++1 Couldn't have said this better!!

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Guest Dusty Feller, SASS #20010L

The WIRE is NOT SASS.

 

Like other internet communication "stuff" there are folks here who are not as pleasant as they should be!

 

On the internet, more people are "jerks" than in real life. Some real life nice guys turn into ogres when they are anonymous.

 

I don't like it, but that is what it is.

 

However, at a REAL SASS or CAS match you will hardly ever see a potential shooter come away with anything but awe at the way they were treated.

 

At matches we all want the new guy/gal feel good about our game!

 

CAS and SASS are one of the most welcoming groups I have ever been associated with.

 

That is my experience, and Ihave been playing our game for quite some time now and have been at dozens and dozens of local and major matches; it is alway the same----friendly (except, of course, for a few curmedgeons, and you know who you are. :rolleyes:

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:ph34r: Gee, Philly-- quit holdin' back, and let us know how you really feel! :lol:

 

You are correct in that we never get a second chance to make a good FIRST impression, and that some may dampen an inquiring prospect's enthusiasm with their

"take it or leave it, that's just the way it is" answers. The Wire is our Face to the World, and will be as sunny as we make it. Hopefully, an honest and PLEASANTLY welcoming face...

 

Looking forward to seeing you and your wife at Western Cup.

 

Bascombs--Goode and Bad

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I had a totally different experience with the SASS Wire when I was a newbie. I felt very welcomed. Same at all the CAS clubs I've been to; I've always felt very welcomed.

 

I do believe that those who have bad experiences with either the SASS Wire or CAS Clubs are rare anomalies.

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PS This is for the newbies who think it is always the Wire regulars' fault when they don't receive a warm welcome.

 

I'm not sure who you are quoting. However, I can remember several newbies who came here with an attitude. It seemed that the "tide turned" against them when they started criticizing the way we do things instead of just asking questions. He phrased things like he was innocent. Do you really believe that none of the responses to his questions were kind. :unsure: He makes it sound that way. :rolleyes: I just don't buy that.

 

One guy I thought was a real jerk, wanted to play after announcing he had clothes but would not consider buying appropriate guns. We have also had trolls under the guise of being a prospective new shooter. Recently, we had one sign up under two names just to stir.

 

Anyway, I think the good responses to newbies far outweigh the bad and I read all of those that I see.

 

That said, again, I thank you for the reminder. We need to give a newbie the benefit of the doubt until they start attacking our traditions after receiving polite replies.

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You don't have to be all sunshine and roses but good Lord, why on Earth would you treat a new person, who really wants to be part of our group, like dirt? That's disgusting. If you can't say anything nice, how 'bout you just keep your yap shut? Telling someone the truth is exactly what we're supposed to do but, you can tell the truth without acting like an ass. It's high time we started ACTING like the nice folks we all prance around CLAIMING to be.

 

Well said, Slim.

 

 

I do believe that those who have bad experiences with either the SASS Wire or CAS Clubs are rare anomalies.

 

Most of the regulars hereabouts are decent folks.

 

The rare anomalies are the one or two jackasses who feel their function on The Wire is to always chime in with something idiotic and insulting instead of something that's instructive or insightful.

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Ya know...while I understand what you're saying...ya can't make everyone happy.

 

I remember someone coming on here that fits the comments. Often times, and probably happen in this case, the question is answered and then the newbie argues about the answer. "Why can't I use these period firearms in CAS"...Because we are the SINGLE Action Shooting Society..."Well that's stupid 'cuz these guns were very popular during the cowboy era"...and so on.

 

After this type of debate, yes we can get pretty pissy...but a "Guest" should have SOME level of respect for the house they are entering.

 

Cheers!

:FlagAm:

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Ya know...while I understand what you're saying...ya can't make everyone happy.

 

I remember someone coming on here that fits the comments. Often times, and probably happen in this case, the question is answered and then the newbie argues about the answer. "Why can't I use these period firearms in CAS"...Because we are the SINGLE Action Shooting Society..."Well that's stupid 'cuz these guns were very popular during the cowboy era"...and so on.

 

After this type of debate, yes we can get pretty pissy...but a "Guest" should have SOME level of respect for the house they are entering.

 

Cheers!

:FlagAm:

 

So True!

 

I moderate on another forum, zzrbikes and I can say that many times our internet face is not our "in-person" attitude and policing our own ranks often smooths out the wrinkles.

I often post something to the effects of "Don't mind _________, thats just their pick up line." after a member jumped down a newbie's post.

 

As a newbie here ( and at one time I was a new guy at zzrbikes) I have to agree that a new member/guest needs to be open minded to the rules/traditions of the site they are posting on.

 

You think this site is tough? Try being a probationary firefighter. I went through that twice in my career. lol

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Should we be nice to folks that want information about SASS? You bet.

 

As someone who reads the wire often, I would say the biggest problem a new person asking a question has is sorting the wheat from the chaff in the answer and not in the willingness of wire folks to provide an answer.

 

My perception is if someone comes on politely, asks a question, even one that has been done scores of times, and does not argue with the answers, he gets loads of info. Some is worth what he paid and some very helpful. In commerce, it is buyer beware, on the internet, it is browser bucket the bull.

 

And folks, SASS is the wire. You do not have to peel the onion very far at all to see anything you see on the wire at the range. The SASS wire is a very polite web site. Wander around a bit and see what flaming is really all about. The Wire never gets more than a spark or two.

 

Very Best Regards,

BJT

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Ya know...while I understand what you're saying...ya can't make everyone happy.

 

I remember someone coming on here that fits the comments. Often times, and probably happen in this case, the question is answered and then the newbie argues about the answer. "Why can't I use these period firearms in CAS"...Because we are the SINGLE Action Shooting Society..."Well that's stupid 'cuz these guns were very popular during the cowboy era"...and so on.

 

After this type of debate, yes we can get pretty pissy...but a "Guest" should have SOME level of respect for the house they are entering.

 

Cheers!

:FlagAm:

 

Yup.

And as Boulder Canyon Bob said..

The SASS wire is no worse and better than some internet groups

 

I belong to one where the rules are strictly enforced and anyone who shows up with an attitude is slammed and bounced pretty quick.

 

You need a reasonably thick skin to participate in discussion boards on the Intergoogle. ;)

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Slim, there are 30,781 folks registered for the SASS Forums. Most are lurkers.

If even 1% of the members have ill feelings about the negativity of the Wire that dissuaded them from being SASS members, that would be 307 individuals. I highly doubt that there are such a number of 307!

 

As for information transfer to questions posted for all topics, including Off Topic, the responses are abundant. Believe there is a classic case of the current version of Abraham Lincoln's original quote - "You can please all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot please all the people all the time."

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Alright, now that I've calmed down a bit I'll start off by appologizing. After going back and reading my own post it looks like I'm guilty of the very thing I was fussing at everybody else for. I'm sorry for that.

 

My whole purpose for this thread is to make folks aware that others really are watching us. Those people are forming opinions about us as an entire group based on what they see from a very small percentage. That's not fair to the rest of us but, that's the way of the Interwebs.

 

I understand and 100% agree that the SASS Wire is by far one of the most welcoming and informative sites on the net BUT, that doesn't mean we can't get better. Madd Mike probably said it best, "Before hitting "Add Reply", you might want to go back and read your own words. Remember, the "Delete" key is your friend."

 

Newbies do come in here and sometimes they don't have the best attitude. I've learned from those other sites how to deal with that. Don't feed the trolls. No sense fighting them. If you just ignore them, they'll go away. An old boss of mine used to say, "If you get down into the mud and wrestle a pig you're both gonna get dirty, but only one of you is gonna enjoy it."

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I hear what you're saying Slim and you have a valid point... but so does Phantom.

 

I participate in a few other shooting/firearms forums too, and I've seen the posts just like you included in the OP, and I've traced them back to this camp. More often than not the "offended" party came here telling us that were were doing it wrong or needed to change the rules to accommodate them.

 

Generally we're a pretty good bunch... until you try to ride over us roughshod.

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Ya know...while I understand what you're saying...ya can't make everyone happy.

 

I remember someone coming on here that fits the comments. Often times, and probably happen in this case, the question is answered and then the newbie argues about the answer. "Why can't I use these period firearms in CAS"...Because we are the SINGLE Action Shooting Society..."Well that's stupid 'cuz these guns were very popular during the cowboy era"...and so on.

 

After this type of debate, yes we can get pretty pissy...but a "Guest" should have SOME level of respect for the house they are entering.

 

Cheers!

:FlagAm:

 

Absolutely..

 

GG ~ :FlagAm:

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"Alright, now that I've calmed down a bit I'll start off by appologizing."

 

 

No reason to, your post was spot on and needed to be said. I've noticed lately it's the same 2 or 3 people that get a thread pulled by their name calling and childlike behaviour, and this is the first thing someone see's when they're researching SASS. A few plugs need to be pulled for a while in my opinion. Thanks again for your input.

 

BSD

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Ya know...while I understand what you're saying...ya can't make everyone happy.

 

I remember someone coming on here that fits the comments. Often times, and probably happen in this case, the question is answered and then the newbie argues about the answer. "Why can't I use these period firearms in CAS"...Because we are the SINGLE Action Shooting Society..."Well that's stupid 'cuz these guns were very popular during the cowboy era"...and so on.

 

After this type of debate, yes we can get pretty pissy...but a "Guest" should have SOME level of respect for the house they are entering.

 

Cheers!

:FlagAm:

+1

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Sometimes certain things need to be said. Most of the time, there's a good way to say it and a bad way. When possible, we should choose the good way.

 

Occasionally Sylvester Syndrome just takes over. :D

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7bF9lxl9N6I&feature=related

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"Alright, now that I've calmed down a bit I'll start off by appologizing."

 

 

No reason to, your post was spot on and needed to be said. I've noticed lately it's the same 2 or 3 people that get a thread pulled by their name calling and childlike behaviour, and this is the first thing someone see's when they're researching SASS. A few plugs need to be pulled for a while in my opinion. Thanks again for your input.

 

BSD

 

Why you low down scally wag commie pinko ....oh, ooops...did I say that...no no wasn't me :lol:

 

:P

 

GG ~ :FlagAm:

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While I agree that civility is the goal.

I do tire of the idea that to be a "Good Person" you have to suffer fools gladly... Stupidity should be painful.

 

If a person comes on the wire and kicks a hornets nest - they should expect to be stung.

And if you make a habit out of it, sooner or later you will either develop a thick skin, learn to avoid hornets nest or simply leave the area.

And this holds true for wire veterans, newbies and all persons in between.

 

I have found that folks that are so easily moved from a course or an action, usually had little interest in following that course or action.

The ones who came to our forum and were "Chased away" or "Got their feelings hurt" and decided that CAS was not for them, were likely never going to shoot anyways.

The same as the ones that state they would enjoy CAS except for...

They have no interest in our game and look for excuses to not play by placing the blame for their non participation on anything, (clothing, alias', cost of guns, targets are too easy or the WIRE is too mean), other than their personal lack of incentive or desire to play.

 

The Wire has not chased anyone away that actually wanted to play this game, all it may have ever done is cull wheat from chaff.

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While I agree that civility is the goal.

I do tire of the idea that to be a "Good Person" you have to suffer fools gladly... Stupidity should be painful.

 

 

The fact that you and I agree on these points so heartily is probably why we get along so well. ;)

 

 

The Wire has not chased anyone away that actually wanted to play this game, all it may have ever done is cull wheat from chaff.

 

Not gonna argue that point except to say, we still need to keep sight of that civility goal. If we do that, let the chips fall where they may.

 

See you Saturday AND Sunday. :)

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Madd Mike probably said it best, "Before hitting "Add Reply", you might want to go back and read your own words. Remember, the "Delete" key is your friend."

Adding on, you might ask yourself if you would say what you did, face to face. If not, don't post it or find another way to write it.

 

Two essential elements of communication are missing with email, internet forums, etc. -- body language and tone of voice. You can say "who cares what you think?" to a friend with a wink and the right tone of voice in the course ribbing one another, and the remark is harmless. But put those words in writing, they take on whole different meaning without the visual and audio cues.

 

My 2 cents.

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Why you low down scally wag commie pinko ....oh, ooops...did I say that...no no wasn't me :lol:

 

:P

 

GG ~ :FlagAm:

I resemble that remark! :D

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The SASS wire played an important role getting me to join this game back when I was starting. I had heard about SASS, but didn't know much more than what I had read in a magazine article or two. I lurked without even signing up for over a year. I just read the information and browsed the classified. Then one day I saw a post where I guy was selling a pair of birdshead Rugers in .45 and I wanted them. I signed up then! He was interested in a trade and I had a gun he wanted so the deal was done.

 

So you see, the Wire can work both ways.

 

To this I will add, the Wire has changed since then. It has a harder edge now.

 

Your point is well taken. We do need to represent our game the best we can, on the range as well as here.

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Ya know...while I understand what you're saying...ya can't make everyone happy.

 

I remember someone coming on here that fits the comments. Often times, and probably happen in this case, the question is answered and then the newbie argues about the answer. "Why can't I use these period firearms in CAS"...Because we are the SINGLE Action Shooting Society..."Well that's stupid 'cuz these guns were very popular during the cowboy era"...and so on.

 

After this type of debate, yes we can get pretty pissy...but a "Guest" should have SOME level of respect for the house they are entering.

 

Cheers!

:FlagAm:

 

+1 to this and what Allie Moe said, I was a newbie and was more than welcomed, had members PM me with all sorts of WELCOME advice...but I too have seen some"NEW" people come on here and start bashing our guidelines or saying we should do this or do that.....or they would join if they could not wear this or I want to use this gun.....I took the time to read the handbook and do some research on SASS and CAS before I joined and before I posted on the wire.....from my experience, the wire is not a hostile place, it can get a little heated at times.....but it is full of great people that have went out of their way to welcome most of the new shooters I have seen post on here........go search any post that starts with "Hi I am a new shooter ect.." and see how fast someone said welcome to the fire......just my 2 cents from being a newbie last year

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Guest Paniolo Cowboy SASS #75875

Ya know...while I understand what you're saying...ya can't make everyone happy.

 

I remember someone coming on here that fits the comments. Often times, and probably happen in this case, the question is answered and then the newbie argues about the answer. "Why can't I use these period firearms in CAS"...Because we are the SINGLE Action Shooting Society..."Well that's stupid 'cuz these guns were very popular during the cowboy era"...and so on.

 

After this type of debate, yes we can get pretty pissy...but a "Guest" should have SOME level of respect for the house they are entering.

 

Cheers!

:FlagAm:

 

+1

 

Absolutely right!

 

There are a few things that irritate me about the Wire.

 

First it's some guy, especially a Newbie who joins an organization knowing what they are joining and then once they are in ... they want to CHANGE things to suit their idea of what they think the game is.

 

Second it's the other is a Guest who comes on here and talks as if he knows all about SASS and has never even been to a match ... even if it's just to check it out.

 

Then there's the guy who is a member but does not respect how others shoot. It's always the SOS about so-called light loads, two hand grips, out of the box guns, and on and on and on. It gets old, and honestly the only thing that happens when I read their posts is the feeling that that person has absolutely no respect for other members.

 

:FlagAm:

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Alright, now that I've calmed down a bit I'll start off by appologizing.

 

Captain Nathan Brittles: Never apologize. It's a sign of weakness.

 

Don't show any weakness around here or they'll gut ya like a tuna. ;)

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I'm new to the sass family joined in January. I've been reading and learning as I go. I've read all the good and the bad, but I like shooting and I've been in quick draw and also with a motorcycle group. I can tell you there is always bad with the good. I just take the good and work with it I take the other with a grain of salt and don't worry about it. There is a lot of good out here and I look for it. I understand how sass works I except it for what it is. Before I would ever try to change something I would talk with my club members first get their feed back and work from there. I feel you need to be in sass for awhile before you even have the right to say it needs changes. my thing is anything that gets the family out and keeps guns in a good light is a good thing all around. I haven't had a chance to shoot with a club yet due to weather but I will. I also have a good friend that joined few days after I did. It's nice to join with someone you to get if on the fun. Just a few words from someone that just enjoys shooting anykind.

 

RANGEr DODO #90909

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Fhilly slim is correct

 

the wire is sponsored by SASS

complete strangers may wonder upon the wire

to some degree

it reflects SASS,

due to what SASS folks say

Butt the truth of the matter is

 

we are much friendlier on the SASS shooting ranges

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Sometimes certain things need to be said. Most of the time, there's a good way to say it and a bad way. When possible, we should choose the good way.

 

Occasionally Sylvester Syndrome just takes over. :D

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7bF9lxl9N6I&feature=related

 

GREAT POST SAID IT ALL!!!!

 

Now I have been a new member for 2 years now. I still ask questions. Sometimes a search just don't cut it.

THose that know the answer jump right in, those that are offended by the question should just move on!!

However other forums are all the same!!!! Ask a question & get pounced on.

REMEMBER this is the internet!!!!!

 

I would be lost without the SASS wire forum!!!

It is my daily read ...better than watching the news on TV!!!

 

KK

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I'm a new guy to SASS, but certainly not new to online forums. IMHO, SASS is THE most welcoming forum I've ever encountered. I went to my first match just over four weeks ago and was blown away (pun intended) by how welcoming and nice everyone was. One thing that really impressed me, and was pointed out by a close friend I've made here, was that the better the shooter, the more humble and helpful they've been. Since then I've been to four matches, all at different clubs and I've met a grand total of one person that rubbed me wrong. Great game, great people, I'm hooked!

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I am very new to this site in respect to many others... I have posted a couple questions and have read a majority of posts that have come along in the past several months.

 

I will say I have been treated very good here. Many have taken the time to contact me directly and let me know what works for them and thier experiences, both good and bad. And I got to say that is awesome and I really appreciate thier time and effort.

 

But I do agree to some extent with what Philly is saying - I have also read some replies to others that really were dis-tasteful and plain rude.

 

Be respectful, be helpful, be part of the solution... Or just pass and bite your lip.

 

Thanks, Bridog

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