Quick Will Lee Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 I just picked up a pair of 44 spl vaqueros and had some loading gate problems. I have one that is stiff but smooth now after some time with some 800 grit sand paper. The other one starts out smooth but binds up real bad after about 5 or 6 times. - have even tried swapping springs and the problem stays with the one gun. I think there is a burr in the frame opening but can't tell. Has anyone else had this happen? Looking for some advice before I call Ruger. Thanks QWL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August West, SASS #45079 Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 I just picked up a pair of 44 spl vaqueros and had some loading gate problems. I have one that is stiff but smooth now after some time with some 800 grit sand paper. The other one starts out smooth but binds up real bad after about 5 or 6 times. - have even tried swapping springs and the problem stays with the one gun. I think there is a burr in the frame opening but can't tell. Has anyone else had this happen? Looking for some advice before I call Ruger. Thanks QWL Is the gate galling on the bottom where the spring contacts it? The trigger pivot pin has a reduced section that accommodates the gate spring when the pistol is assembled. If that pin is in backwards (or otherwise mis-indexed), the gate will bind in the way you describe. (stranger things have happened) When you disassemble, polish the top of the spring, where it contacts the gate cam, with 600 grit paper to smooth it out (don't take any significant amount of material off the spring, just polish). Lubricate generously. Please report back so the rest of us can learn along with you. While Roooogers run forever (seemingly) once you get them working, they don't always come that way from the factory -- unfortunately. Hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quick Will Lee Posted February 28, 2011 Author Share Posted February 28, 2011 The pin is in correctly. That was my original though for both. I polished up one of them untill I was happy with how it was working. It is stiff but smooth and I am ok with that. The other one the face of the spring was ground different from the get go. But I would polish the top where it contacts the gate and put it back together. After a few times the gate would bind and the only way to open is to take it apart. The high side of the spring gets scuffed up like there is a burr on the frame too. It looks like the gate forces the spring tip into the frame and it gets hung up there. It did this with the other spring too. Also, whichever revolver the spring is in the bolt does not drop down all the way. But that may be due the amount of grinding I have in the the last two days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August West, SASS #45079 Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 The pin is in correctly. Notch on right side of frame ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rube Burrows Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 The two SASS Rugers I just got have pretty tight (hard to open) loading gates. I think they will get better with use though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quick Will Lee Posted March 1, 2011 Author Share Posted March 1, 2011 Notch on right side of frame ? Yes the notch is on the right side of the frame. It took me a while to confirm and I had to look up the assy pic because I have spent more time with them upside down and dis-assembled than I care to admit. The spring rides in the notch. I can live with the force needed to open when it works, just not when it gets to the point where it will not open at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I. M. Crossdraw, SASS# 8321 Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 Need to shorten the leg that cams on the loading gate. That leg on that gate detent spring is a little bit too long. You need to file it down just a little bit at a time. It's a trial and error thingy job. When filing it down make sure you maintain the contour of the leg than cams on the loading gate. Keep an eye on the cylinder latch and make sure that after you have filed the spring down, that the cylinder latch will also come come down just below the top of the cylinder latch slot on the frame when you open the gate. If filed too short, the cylinder latch will be sticking out of the slot and the latch will be rubbing against the cylinder. Be patient and file a little at a time. After you have acquired the correct length, polish the area you just filed but don't take any more metal off, just polish. You have to be familiar with the disassembly and reassembly of the Ruger Vaquero to get to the gate detent spring. If you know how, this is an easy fix. Hope this help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Long Hair Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 Howdy, maybe you already tried this but if not, swap springs from one that works well and see if this one works now and the other one has problems. Please be sure there are no crumbs, filings or any foreign matter in the hole that accepts the gate pin. And Always make sure the spring isn't sticking out of it's little space it should be in. Just remember, the more times you take it apart and put it back together, the better you'll get at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Dan Troop 70448 Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 My new SASS Vaquero's were the same, loading gates hard to open. I just stored them when not using them with gates open. Within 2 months they were no longer a problem, now just flip em open. MT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quick Will Lee Posted March 1, 2011 Author Share Posted March 1, 2011 Swapped springs and the problem stays with Layla (pistol 2). I think I have the spring too short now in that there is some slop in the gate when closed. But it still binds, I worked it last night until it seized and put her up for the night. Will see if for some strange reason the problem only materializes with repeated use. I am grasping at straws now. For now my dilemma is whether or not to get a new spring and a needle file for the frame, or just call and send her back. I am very apprehensive about hacking on the frame. I have not even fired them yet! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smithy Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 My new SASS Vaquero's were the same, loading gates hard to open. I just stored them when not using them with gates open. Within 2 months they were no longer a problem, now just flip em open. MT Marshall Troop I think had the best idea of the lot. And the simplest one to boot. One thing I do know. If it were me, I would only modify the spring and NOT the gun! Springs are cheap and easy to replace. Guns are not. And if you get to the point of replacing the spring and you'd already modified the gun, the new spring won't fit from the get go. Right now I'd suggest sending the two with a note to Ruger for a factory fix and see how that goes. Smithy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quick Will Lee Posted March 2, 2011 Author Share Posted March 2, 2011 So I was just getting ready to email Ruger (have not been able to break free to call them yet) when I decided to check on it tonight. Lo and behold it opens. And does so for seven times before it seizes again. This time sprayed some oil in it and it works again. I really don't know if I should be happy or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unpleasant Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 If you feel like taking it apart again I have an idea of what to check. If you are sure that all the parts, ( loading gate, cylinder latch, gate spring) are burr free and the areas of the frame that touch these then here is one that might be hiding. With the pistol apart grab the grip frame like you would shooting it. Now put the cylinder latch spring (pt.xr04600) and plunger (xr07700) in to the top of the frame. Push it down while applying foward preassure and see what happens. It should go down with no problem. If it ever hangs up because of a burr or being miss-shaped it will not let the gate open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quick Will Lee Posted March 2, 2011 Author Share Posted March 2, 2011 Talked to Ruger and they are sending me a new detent spring. If I can't get it working within a year I can send them the revolver for them to look at. I think that is fair. I seem to be the only one to call with a complaint about the loading gate effort. Overall the customer service experience was pretty good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 I seem to be the only one to call with a complaint about the loading gate effort. Ho, ho, ho. Well, that's customer service for you. "No need to tell the other customers about a problem that Will had." Yeah, that loading gate/detent spring design is one which leads to lots of reassembly time and even some repairs. Been there, done that on several Vaqs. Good luck, GJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smithy Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 Ho, ho, ho. Well, that's customer service for you. "No need to tell the other customers about a problem that Will had." Yeah, that loading gate/detent spring design is one which leads to lots of reassembly time and even some repairs. Been there, done that on several Vaqs. Good luck, GJ I hear you there! I have a few Bisley's that I put a Brownells Marshells spring kit into and upon reassembly I ran into a problem with the plunger/spring for the bolt stop. I would end up with a free spinning cylinder every time I assembled the gun so it was back to the drawing board and part way disassemble the gun to try again. I must have done this half a dozen to a dozen times on one revolver alone before I got it right. A lot of make up work to say the least. Smithy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quick Will Lee Posted March 2, 2011 Author Share Posted March 2, 2011 It seemed like the most of the feedback was "I had this issue and this is what I did" but not a lot of "I called Ruger and this is what they said". When they patched me through to tech service I got the impression that it was the first time he had heard of it. I would like to think that if enough people had/have the issue they could have fixed it before I got mine. As far as a customer service call it is the only one I have had that started out kind of rocky but ended being resolved to my satisfaction (for now). Usually they start out good but go downhill. FWIW though I went with the Rugers because of the reputation the seem to have for being bombproof and ready to go out of the box. That is not what I got. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 It seemed like the most of the feedback was "I had this issue and this is what I did" but not a lot of "I called Ruger and this is what they said". When they patched me through to tech service I got the impression that it was the first time he had heard of it. I would like to think that if enough people had/have the issue they could have fixed it before I got mine. As far as a customer service call it is the only one I have had that started out kind of rocky but ended being resolved to my satisfaction (for now). Usually they start out good but go downhill. FWIW though I went with the Rugers because of the reputation the seem to have for being bombproof and ready to go out of the box. That is not what I got. QWL - Well, I will take a major leap here and guess that you are at the point at which the problem exceeds your capability to solve. I'm not knocking you, just trying to get to reality with you. Now is when a good Ruger gunsmith could jump in and fix it to your satisfaction. First of all, though, I can't recommend one close to you since you do not list your location in your profile. That will help. Wes Fargo is a whiz with Rugers. LongHunter is fantastic. Several others do great work on them too. Ruger warranty service is good. But, you have to send the gun in. And Ruger will remove any custom/aftermarket parts you have installed and bring the gun back to factory specs. Doing the work yourself when you are not sure of what parts are bad or if the frame itself is mis-machined, gets most folks to the point you are at now, where you are disappointed with the gun and the service department. Rugers are tough and normally well built. Not as well built and assembled as they were in the 70s and 80s, but still much better than most other guns, especially the Italian Colt-clone revolvers or Chinese shotguns. But, Rugers are some of the more persnickety guns to WORK on that we have in our sport (second to the Win 92s and some single-trigger double barrel shotguns). So, you are at a decision point, I think. Either send the gun back to Ruger, wait a couple of weeks, and PROBABLY get it back in great shape. Or, find a professional single action gunsmith and maybe leave it with them 4 weeks, drop $150 on them and get one back that is really nicely done and works perfect. I'd pick the latter. Good luck, GJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stepnmud#33546 Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 Just curious, were these special order 44 spl vaqueros? Any accuracy test? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quick Will Lee Posted March 3, 2011 Author Share Posted March 3, 2011 Just curious, were these special order 44 spl vaqueros? Any accuracy test? They are the Lipsey's 44 special with the 3 3/4" barrels. Have not shot them yet. I have some SWC bullets to load just to get a feel for them on paper but they aren't what I plan to shoot in matches. They are super sharp. When you see pics of them the short barrels look kind of awkward compared to the the 4 5/8 barrels. In person they are sweet IMHO. I named them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quick Will Lee Posted March 3, 2011 Author Share Posted March 3, 2011 QWL - So, you are at a decision point, I think. Either send the gun back to Ruger, wait a couple of weeks, and PROBABLY get it back in great shape. Or, find a professional single action gunsmith and maybe leave it with them 4 weeks, drop $150 on them and get one back that is really nicely done and works perfect. I'd pick the latter. Good luck, GJ I am in Michigan. I googled to see if anyone else problem and that is how I knew to check for the pivot pin being in backwards and what started me down this path. Otherwise they both would have been back to Ruger for them to fix. It sounds like this is an issue with the newer ones and when people have this issue they fix it on their own. I'm guilty of trying to do that. The end result is that Ruger never finds out they have a problem. Paying someone else to fix it should not even be a consideration. For sure at the price point these guns are at. I'll get my new spring, polish it up bit and use it over the summer. If I still have the problem send it in. I like the guns and am satisfied with my resolution options so far. So far in my dealings with them them they have been a very stand up company. I think if someone would have spoken up a few serial numbers before mine were produced I would not have this issue at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 I am in Michigan. Lassiter. (But, you obviously have an agenda of trying to change Ruger's operations rather than fix your guns, so have at it, pard. Others have tried that, usually only Bill succeeded at that, and unfortunately he's gone.) GJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August West, SASS #45079 Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 Swapped springs and the problem stays with Layla (pistol 2). I think I have the spring too short now in that there is some slop in the gate when closed. But it still binds, Well, that argues strongly that the spring, itself, is not the problem -- if I'm understanding this remark. Someone else mentioned the cylinder latch (bolt) detent spring and plunger and I'd like to return to that after giving this more thought. I spent six months chasing a problem with indexing and finally resolved it with a new latch spring. If you'll permit me to make a few observations about my experience. First, I learned -- or took note of for the first time -- that the latch spring and plunger run in a hole that's drilled into the grip frame at an angle. The hole runs a little sideways so that it goes into the part of the grip frame with more "meat" and engages the latch (bolt) which is off center in the design. Because this plunger and spring run off-axis (as it were), there is friction between the plunger and the grip frame. On one of my guns, the opening to the hole was very sharp and there was a worn spot on one side of the plunger where it ran over this spot. In other words the plunger showed definite signs of binding. This hole is also a marvelous place for gunk to collect and bind the plunger/spring. Second, I noted that, on one of my pistols, the plunger stayed above the level of the hole during assembly. I'm pretty sure it got below this point once the grip frame was tightened, but you (obviously) can't see it with the grip frame installed. It was as if the hole was too short for the plunger/spring mechanism. Third, the finish machining on the inside of the frame and top of the grip frame (those parts hidden after assembly) are very rough. Fourth, this is a good candidate given the data you've reported: a) cylinder latch not fully retracting into frame, binding intermittent and not related to gate spring (by deduction). So, may I suggest that you radius the entrance to the hole that carries the plunger and spring ever so slightly on the chance that it is this part of the mechanism that's "sticking" and binding the loading gate. In other words, the loading gate has to retract the cylinder latch and it is the latch that is impeding the action of the gate, rather than the other way around. Just a slight radius on the opening to the hole in the grip frame freed mine up and made it run without problems. I also noted that the action is very dependent on the length and tension of the latch spring, that the plunger benefitted from some polishing, that the hole needed to be cleaned out to allow the mechanism to work smoothly, and that the internals of Rooooogers like gun (machine) oil and do not like grease. Hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quick Will Lee Posted March 3, 2011 Author Share Posted March 3, 2011 GJ- Thank you for the help and advice. It honestly could be a lot worse, I could be dealing with a company with a much worse reputation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I. M. Crossdraw, SASS# 8321 Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 Talked to Ruger and they are sending me a new detent spring. If I can't get it working within a year I can send them the revolver for them to look at. I think that is fair. I seem to be the only one to call with a complaint about the loading gate effort. Overall the customer service experience was pretty good. Them gate detent spring are not drop in fit. In some cases, you may need to fit it. If it drops in, you're in luck. Problem fix, I hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kananaskis Kid, SASS #62402 Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 I currently own 6 New Vaqueros, and while I do not claim to be an expert gunsmith, i am able to disassemble and reassemble one in 15 minutes. One of the first things I do when I get a new one is to take everything apart and smooth out the rough spots and sharp edges. I have found that the gun operates better after I'm finished. Although I've never encountered the problem of a sticking loading gate, I have had an incident with a new gun where the cylinder would not freely rotate when the loading gate was open because the latch wasn't retracting below the frame. I corrected the problem by carefully reshaping the gate detent spring (I later replaced it). I've also noticed that after a lengthy period of use, some of the parts need to be checked for wear; in particular the hammer plunger cross pin which I've found tends to get a groove worn in it (I've had one break due to this), and the pawl spring plunger which has a tendency to mushroom after extended use (a little work with a stone cures this). My latest pair of NMVs in .44 sp I purchased from Long Hunter came with an action job which eliminated the necessity of my previous ritual. They work great - anyone who's thinking of purchasing a new gun should consider buying one already tuned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quick Will Lee Posted March 17, 2011 Author Share Posted March 17, 2011 I got my new spring from Ruger and got it installed. Getting pretty quick at tearing down the pistol. It works lot better now, is still hard to open but at least it opens. I still think there is a burr in spring window but am not concerned enough to do anything about it for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Dog, SASS #20401 Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 I have lots of Vaqs,both RVs and NVs. Most have either been to Long Hunter or Wes Fargo. Never had a problem. Nor with my bone stock BHs. Rugers are mass produced and not fitted by an artisan at the factory the way it was done in the old days. Subsequently they will all "sing" much better after someone who knows them like Jim or Wes minister to them. You would have had a more harmonious outcome ordering them thru Long Hunter. The price would have been just a little higher maybe but they would have come with a world famous world class action job included. Priceless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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