June 25 1855, Commanches, German Pioneers

[Texas Man]

I had the chance to buy a Old 1851 Nave Colt that still had the orginal Krauskopf flap style hoster with it and extreamly good history with it as well including a 1928 Frontier Times news paper from J. Marvin Hunter of Bandera Texas giving full details of the Killing of a German Pioneer Man and Wife named Keenese who had settled in Gillespie County, Texas from Germany. The wife was 45 and He was 46 and they had five childern. On June 25, 1855 He had gone over to the next ranch to pick his wife up after her helping the neighor lady have a baby and with it being late the family told him it was too late to try to go back and offered to let them spent the night and go back the next day. He said no, That he had two fast horses and could be back home before dark and left for home with his wife in the wagon. Halfway home He was spotted by six Commanche Indians and in a run for life try, They roped his wife and pulled her from the wagon and when he jumped down to help her they shot an arrow thru his belly and as he run for cover bleeding one run a spear in his neck killing him. With his wife on the ground the Indians scapled her, stuck a spear in her side {She was six months Pregnant] and gouged her eyes out and raped her before leaving her for dead. The next morning a rual mail carrier by the name of Laiman come alone and found the mans body. As he was loading the body into the wagon he heard a cry and it was the woman who had come to. She was taken to a farmhouse and the next day she had the six moonth baby boy but he was still born. She lived for three days before dying and told the complete story of what had happen. It was said the smell was so bad from the scaping that no one could stay in the room with her.

 

I had the complete history of the old Colt as it was passed down the family and a picture of the bronze sign on the side of the road where it happen as well as the Frontier Times news letter dated 1928 and just to find an Orginal Krausph hoster in itself is super rare as well. The Old Colt Navy was also in good shape as well. It is almost IMPOSSIBLE TO FIND guns with LOCAL TEXAS HISTORY with them today. Such a find is extreamly rare and the price will be well into the five to six figure range when you do find them and trying to get the owner to part with them is next to impossible as well.

 

O.K.,,,,,,Here is the rest of the story.

I was talking with the President of the Texas Gun Collector Assoc. a few weeks ago and we were talking about guns we had in our collection. I had started to tell him about the old Colt when He became very excited and told me to let him tell me the rest of the story. As he told me the woman the mans wife had gone to help have the baby was indeed his great-grandmother and the child she help deliver was his grandmother. He also said he knew all about the history of the Man who owned the Old Colt and that I think he said the old rock house they lived in at the time of the killing was on his ranch as well as their graves. He wanted the old Colt and was willing to pay a fair price for it and all that went with it. I had no intention of selling it at any price but the words that came out of his mouth next rang in my ears for the next two weeks. His burning words were, ",I WANT TO BRING IT HOME WHERE IT BELONGS". Those words rang in my ears for the next two weeks and concidering that with my age I know the day will come when my collection will be in other hands after I am gone, I felt that the Old Colt should be at home with him and I knew he would never sell it either. He is one of those men that stand on principal and honor and one who values the same values in a man as well. The money was not an issure in the least but rather the peace of mind knowing the old Cold would be where it belonged once again. I sold the gun to him and he paid the same price I had when I bought it. When You trade off a gun like this, The money will buy an entire collection of very fine guns with change left over, But the problem is You seldom ever find a gun with so much history behind it and when you do you may have to see off a large collection to replace it as well. One again its not the money but by far trying to find documented history behind an old gun and a hundred times more so a Texas gun from Your area. Had he not been a man of Honor I would have never parted with the old Colt, But I am glad it worked out as it did.

 

In all my years as a collector, I have experenced a lot of things and perhaps the worst is when a gun has come down thur a family and ends up in some wimp of a mans hands and the fact that his grest grandfather or father carried it in the wars of the past has no meaning to him and his wife wants it out of her house or he needs money for dope. I once stood in a living room of an old Texas ranch house that was built in the 1800s by a Texas Indian Fighter and Settler who had been an Ranger and Lawman and before me stood a damn woman from up East who had married the great grandson and was informing me that she would not stand to have a gun in her house and it was the guns that went or her whimp a-- husband who was standing there next to her with his whimp mouth shut. I felt like slapping him in the face and planting my boot in his you know what as I looked at a well used 2nd Model Colt Dragoon and a Winchester Model 66 and a low three degit Colt Single Action 7 & 1/2 inch 45 with Pearl grips and hoster. I was glad to get out of the house and yes I did buy all the guns.

 

Just felt like sharing this experence with My Pards here, Texas Man

[Yellowhouse Sam # 25171]

I had the chance to buy a Old 1851 Nave Colt that still had the orginal Krauskopf flap style hoster with it and extreamly good history with it as well including a 1928 Frontier Times news paper from J. Marvin Hunter of Bandera Texas giving full details of the Killing of a German Pioneer Man and Wife named Keenese who had settled in Gillespie County, Texas from Germany. The wife was 45 and He was 46 and they had five childern. On June 25, 1855 He had gone over to the next ranch to pick his wife up after her helping the neighor lady have a baby and with it being late the family told him it was too late to try to go back and offered to let them spent the night and go back the next day. He said no, That he had two fast horses and could be back home before dark and left for home with his wife in the wagon. Halfway home He was spotted by six Commanche Indians and in a run for life try, They roped his wife and pulled her from the wagon and when he jumped down to help her they shot an arrow thru his belly and as he run for cover bleeding one run a spear in his neck killing him. With his wife on the ground the Indians scapled her, stuck a spear in her side {She was six months Pregnant] and gouged her eyes out and raped her before leaving her for dead. The next morning a rual mail carrier by the name of Laiman come alone and found the mans body. As he was loading the body into the wagon he heard a cry and it was the woman who had come to. She was taken to a farmhouse and the next day she had the six moonth baby boy but he was still born. She lived for three days before dying and told the complete story of what had happen. It was said the smell was so bad from the scaping that no one could stay in the room with her.

 

I had the complete history of the old Colt as it was passed down the family and a picture of the bronze sign on the side of the road where it happen as well as the Frontier Times news letter dated 1928 and just to find an Orginal Krausph hoster in itself is super rare as well. The Old Colt Navy was also in good shape as well. It is almost IMPOSSIBLE TO FIND guns with LOCAL TEXAS HISTORY with them today. Such a find is extreamly rare and the price will be well into the five to six figure range when you do find them and trying to get the owner to part with them is next to impossible as well.

 

O.K.,,,,,,Here is the rest of the story.

I was talking with the President of the Texas Gun Collector Assoc. a few weeks ago and we were talking about guns we had in our collection. I had started to tell him about the old Colt when He became very excited and told me to let him tell me the rest of the story. As he told me the woman the mans wife had gone to help have the baby was indeed his great-grandmother and the child she help deliver was his grandmother. He also said he knew all about the history of the Man who owned the Old Colt and that I think he said the old rock house they lived in at the time of the killing was on his ranch as well as their graves. He wanted the old Colt and was willing to pay a fair price for it and all that went with it. I had no intention of selling it at any price but the words that came out of his mouth next rang in my ears for the next two weeks. His burning words were, ",I WANT TO BRING IT HOME WHERE IT BELONGS". Those words rang in my ears for the next two weeks and concidering that with my age I know the day will come when my collection will be in other hands after I am gone, I felt that the Old Colt should be at home with him and I knew he would never sell it either. He is one of those men that stand on principal and honor and one who values the same values in a man as well. The money was not an issure in the least but rather the peace of mind knowing the old Cold would be where it belonged once again. I sold the gun to him and he paid the same price I had when I bought it. When You trade off a gun like this, The money will buy an entire collection of very fine guns with change left over, But the problem is You seldom ever find a gun with so much history behind it and when you do you may have to see off a large collection to replace it as well. One again its not the money but by far trying to find documented history behind an old gun and a hundred times more so a Texas gun from Your area. Had he not been a man of Honor I would have never parted with the old Colt, But I am glad it worked out as it did.

 

In all my years as a collector, I have experenced a lot of things and perhaps the worst is when a gun has come down thur a family and ends up in some wimp of a mans hands and the fact that his grest grandfather or father carried it in the wars of the past has no meaning to him and his wife wants it out of her house or he needs money for dope. I once stood in a living room of an old Texas ranch house that was built in the 1800s by a Texas Indian Fighter and Settler who had been an Ranger and Lawman and before me stood a damn woman from up East who had married the great grandson and was informing me that she would not stand to have a gun in her house and it was the guns that went or her whimp a-- husband who was standing there next to her with his whimp mouth shut. I felt like slapping him in the face and planting my boot in his you know what as I looked at a well used 2nd Model Colt Dragoon and a Winchester Model 66 and a low three degit Colt Single Action 7 & 1/2 inch 45 with Pearl grips and hoster. I was glad to get out of the house and yes I did buy all the guns.

 

Just felt like sharing this experence with My Pards here, Texas Man

 

Always enjoy your stories!!

[Red Gauntlet , SASS 60619]

Fascinating story.

 

 

I feel your way about our family guns, even though can't say any one of 'em was in a famous action! I'm one of five brothers, and we all treasure our grandad's and dad's guns, either keeping them ourselves or giving them to our sons and grandsons. Many a great hunt with the shotguns, especially.

 

It hardly amounts to taking on the Comanches, but every time I use my dad's old Model 12 16 gauge, it reminds me of how he'd take us boys, in the family station wagon, in the early '60s, driving over to Eastern Washington, and driving up to farmhouses and asking permission to hunt. Five crew-cut boys in the car! Usually got the OK.

 

You wouldn't get far with that today, alas.

 

As for that story with the German settler and the Comanch, it's a hair-raiser (literally, I guess). A pard here a few years back, can't remember who, recommended Feurbach's "The Comanches, The Destruction of a People" (reissued some years later as "a History of a People"). It was not only a great book about the Comanches and the Texas of their era, but the best, most clear-eyed writing about the American Indians in general I've ever read.

 

Thanks for another interesting post, Texas Man.

[Red River Ray SASS#33254]

Well I be damn, thats alright!

 

 

RRR

[Capt Stephen D Hill, SASS #56151]

Texas Man, the only person other than yourself who has so many stories and history is "Ed Seiker" Texas Ranger. I love to listen to him, and read your stories. Maybe we'll get to meet someday, after all, Texas ain't all that big if you live here. Keep up the good work, feel free to contact me anytime!

 

 

Capt.Stephen D. Hill

[Yellowhouse Sam # 25171]

Besides Comanches: Destruction of a Nation there's

 

Wallace & Hoebels book on the Comanches

 

Indian Depredations in Texas

 

Border Wars

 

Arrows Over Texas (hard to find)