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open? closed?


johny two horse

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Now that was pretty funny! :rolleyes:

 

I guess I missed the joke.

You do realize that it's physicaly impossable for a catrridge AND a chamber flag to occupy the same space, huh? And that the action on a long arm will not close while a chamber flag is present?....Perty-simple concepts realy. Maybe too simple?

 

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I guess I missed the joke.

You do realize that it's physicaly impossable for a catrridge AND a chamber flag to occupy the same space, huh? And that the action on a long arm will not close while a chamber flag is present?....Perty-simple concepts realy. Maybe too simple?

 

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I will ask again

are you saying

after shooting your rifle string

you install one under the clock??????????????

 

geeeeese

that aint simple

I smell rank points :blink:

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I will ask again

are you saying

after shooting your rifle string

you install one under the clock??????????????

 

geeeeese

that aint simple

I smell rank points :blink:

I can see it now everyone gets a belt slide to hold their chamber flags. Wonder if the slide can go on over unused shotgun loops.

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What is/are "chamber flags" ?

 

 

 

 

 

 

(...... never heard of, or seen, it/them in Australia ...)

 

 

http://www.google.com/images?hl=en&sugexp=ldymls&xhr=t&q=chamber+flag&cp=11&bav=on.1,or.&wrapid=tljp1298223728625012&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&biw=1519&bih=788

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What is/are "chamber flags" ?

 

 

 

 

 

 

(...... never heard of, or seen, it/them in Australia ...)

 

 

It's a fairly simple device that is placed into the EMPTY chamber of a long arm and/or semiauto pistol so's everyone concerned can instantly know for sure that there aint no chambered round in there.....AND....that the action is open. The NRA has required them for years, probably in response to folks who can't seem to figure out whether or not an action is open with an empty chamber.

 

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I will ask again

are you saying

after shooting your rifle string

you install one under the clock??????????????

 

geeeeese

that aint simple

I smell rank points :blink:

 

 

No, that aint what I said.

I didn't even say that I thought CAS should be using them.

All I said was that I've often wondered why they didn't.

Thanks for your opinion on the matter.

 

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No, that aint what I said.

I didn't even say that I thought CAS should be using them.

All I said was that I've often wondered why they didn't.

Thanks for your opinion on the matter.

 

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explain sum more

if cas did, I wonder how-- it wood be applied?

 

I am confused as usual :huh:

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All I said was that I've often wondered why they didn't.

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We are not debating about showing empty in a rack or in a cart - But a firearm used on a stage and the shooter has moved to another gun.

I am assuming you are not wondering about the use of a chamber flag under THESE circumstances?

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Thread drift...

 

Generally chamber flags are helpful when the gun is kept stable and often flat. And they are used for guns that are not as easily verified as having the action open.

 

Since we are moving around with the actions muzzle up, Most chamber flags would likely rattle around and fall out. Then you would have to see that the action is open - essentially what we do now, except then we would be searching for our lost chamber flag... :D :D

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It's a fairly simple device that is placed into the EMPTY chamber of a long arm and/or semiauto pistol so's everyone concerned can instantly know for sure that there aint no chambered round in there.....AND....that the action is open. The NRA has required them for years, probably in response to folks who can't seem to figure out whether or not an action is open with an empty chamber.

 

WWW

 

 

HA! HA! HA! Good one!

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Creeker, In one of your earlier posts you said something very interesting "Our rules, as written, are the rules, Possible INTENT, while an interesting discussion and debate means nothing if it is not written." Intent is the very foundation of any written law or rule. With out some intent to convey information, we would have no reason to set pen to paper. If the author does not clearly convey his intent in writing then that rule should be struck as written and then rewritten so the intent is clear. If the open action ruling were clear we would not have two polar opposite sides to this debate. I think we can all agree that grounding a firearm with the action open is a safety measure. What we disagree on is how far the action should be open, this is the point at which we must look at intent. The best resolution would be for the author to come forward and state his reasons for this rule, barring that we are left to common sense. Most people would agree that we leaving an action open to help make the range safe from an accidental discharge. That can be accomplished be leaving the firearm slightly out of battery. I, and some others, believe there is a second reason for leaving an open action, as a show of respect for our line officers and our fellow shooters. By leaving our action fully or mostly open, others around us can see that its is unloaded and verify that safe condition.

I realize that some firearms have design limitations that will not allow them to stay full open when they are set down but that should not preclude the shooter from making the effort to do so and show safe. I don't think we need more rules but I do believe we need to clean up a few of the ones we have.

 

As an extreme example (and please don't take this literally) What if some one wrote "Be careful to shoot yourself in the foot." When he intended to say "Be careful to NOT shoot yourself in the foot." Intent matters very much.

 

J2H

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Phantom. The problem is clarity, and I don't how I could be any more exact. Buy the way, I am an outfitter, not an attorney, nor am I an attorney type. J2H

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Clarity... well... Sgt Mac was WAY ahead of his time when he showed up at EOT one year with the very first gun cart I ever saw. How the HEdouble hockey sticks did he KNOW we'd need them to carry around our rule books that now contain "clarity." And not much else!

 

Get real folks. We don't need the (insert your state name) Penal Code for our rule books. If you think a pard's action has closed, bring it quietly to his attention; wherever on the range you see it. If on the firing line, and you think it closed when he set that gun down and moved to the next... bring it to his attention. If he's fired the next gun, give the shooter the MSV and move on. It's been done and will be done in the future. If the shooter wants to protest, don't take it personally, you should make calls the way you see them, others might not agree. Such is life. Such is SASS. Next question!

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Creeker, In one of your earlier posts you said something very interesting "Our rules, as written, are the rules, Possible INTENT, while an interesting discussion and debate means nothing if it is not written." Intent is the very foundation of any written law or rule. With out some intent to convey information, we would have no reason to set pen to paper. If the author does not clearly convey his intent in writing then that rule should be struck as written and then rewritten so the intent is clear. If the open action ruling were clear we would not have two polar opposite sides to this debate. I think we can all agree that grounding a firearm with the action open is a safety measure. What we disagree on is how far the action should be open, this is the point at which we must look at intent. The best resolution would be for the author to come forward and state his reasons for this rule, barring that we are left to common sense. Most people would agree that we leaving an action open to help make the range safe from an accidental discharge. That can be accomplished be leaving the firearm slightly out of battery. I, and some others, believe there is a second reason for leaving an open action, as a show of respect for our line officers and our fellow shooters. By leaving our action fully or mostly open, others around us can see that its is unloaded and verify that safe condition.

I realize that some firearms have design limitations that will not allow them to stay full open when they are set down but that should not preclude the shooter from making the effort to do so and show safe. I don't think we need more rules but I do believe we need to clean up a few of the ones we have.

 

As an extreme example (and please don't take this literally) What if some one wrote "Be careful to shoot yourself in the foot." When he intended to say "Be careful to NOT shoot yourself in the foot." Intent matters very much.

 

J2H

 

We do not need clarity in the intent of the words "open action". Intent for SASS purposes is for the shooter not to loose control of a firearm in a condtion where the action could fire a cartridge that may have been left under the hammer. However, another rule allows just such w/o penalty so long as the condition (open the action) is corrected before next firearm is fired.

 

As far as your point of showing respect for the TO/posse by having the action wide open after restaging,,,, na it doesn't do a thing for me one way or the other to see a firearm pointed safely down range with action in an unkown state. If degree of action open is in question, I would want and have always seen the shooter open the action further in the process of picking up his long guns and before heading to the UL table. I have on rare occasions seen a what seemed to be closed action in a gun cart. When pointed out to the owner, he/she has always corrected the problem immediately.

 

 

99+% of the time any more, long guns are staged/restaged horizontally and pointed downrange.. Once the LG is restaged and the shooters hand leaves contact with the gun, there is very little out there to trip the trigger on the LG to fire the gun. It is fairly safe, BUT people understandably get nerves and we have the rule already. Fiddling with the action of a vertical staged LG is more hazardous cause the shooter or TO most likely will be standing very close if not completely over the muzzle. If not that then then the gun will fire near vertical and who knows where the bullet will land, making it hazardous.

 

In conclusion, I have a degree of problem with people that needs every little thing clarified and then need the clarification clarified. Those people show signs of being unsafe.

 

So I do not see what your concern is. You are welcome to put in a Flaggy Thingy (FT) into your open action if you wish. Folks I just made up a new abreviation 'FT'.

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Phantom. The problem is clarity, and I don't how I could be any more exact. Buy the way, I am an outfitter, not an attorney, nor am I an attorney type. J2H

 

If you are an outfitter, I don't want you ROing me by your statements in post #50. But that is just me. :rolleyes: No offense mind you. :blush:

 

Blastmaster

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Creeker, In one of your earlier posts you said something very interesting "Our rules, as written, are the rules, Possible INTENT, while an interesting discussion and debate means nothing if it is not written." Intent is the very foundation of any written law or rule. With out some intent to convey information, we would have no reason to set pen to paper. If the author does not clearly convey his intent in writing then that rule should be struck as written and then rewritten so the intent is clear. If the open action ruling were clear we would not have two polar opposite sides to this debate. I think we can all agree that grounding a firearm with the action open is a safety measure. What we disagree on is how far the action should be open, this is the point at which we must look at intent. The best resolution would be for the author to come forward and state his reasons for this rule, barring that we are left to common sense. Most people would agree that we leaving an action open to help make the range safe from an accidental discharge. That can be accomplished be leaving the firearm slightly out of battery. I, and some others, believe there is a second reason for leaving an open action, as a show of respect for our line officers and our fellow shooters. By leaving our action fully or mostly open, others around us can see that its is unloaded and verify that safe condition.

I realize that some firearms have design limitations that will not allow them to stay full open when they are set down but that should not preclude the shooter from making the effort to do so and show safe. I don't think we need more rules but I do believe we need to clean up a few of the ones we have.

 

As an extreme example (and please don't take this literally) What if some one wrote "Be careful to shoot yourself in the foot." When he intended to say "Be careful to NOT shoot yourself in the foot." Intent matters very much.

 

J2H

Gibberish!

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Phantom. The problem is clarity, and I don't how I could be any more exact. Buy the way, I am an outfitter, not an attorney, nor am I an attorney type. J2H

 

Do you understand that the long gun is pointing safely down range...and the shooter is in many cases moving rapidly after shooting the long gun...and do you understand that the TO is probably moving rapidly with the shooter?????

 

Geeze!!!!

 

How in the he$$ have we survived all these years without Clarity?!?!?!

 

:wacko:

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