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Notso Slim, SASS #67301

I want your opinion.

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Who has the ultimate responsibility for the scores/grades/knowledge of US school students?

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My wife is an elemenary school teacher. I know that she is always complaining about having to spend more time teaching discipline then the actual curriculum. I would say that is the ultimate problem. Parents are responsible for teaching their kids how to act. When they don't, too much time is wasted in school trying to get kids to act right.

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Parents.

 

If children are not being educated, it is the responsibility of the parent to correct the problem. They should look to their child first. One of the most important lessons my mother taught me was that I could learn something from even the most incompetent teacher.

 

Cheers,

BJT

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My wife is an elemenary school teacher. I know that she is always complaining about having to spend more time teaching discipline then the actual curriculum. I would say that is the ultimate problem. Parents are responsible for teaching their kids how to act. When they don't, too much time is wasted in school trying to get kids to act right.

 

Ditto. It's not that they can't learn, it's that they have no self-discipline.

 

Some classes I have to sit on them just to get them to pay attention to me. I feel like I have to police them all the time, every day, and it's stressful and exhausting.

 

I asked them what they do at home when their parents tell them to do something they don't want to do. They told me they ignore them, the parent yells a bit, then stops, and they just go ahead and do as they please. No consequences. There is no discipline at all in most homes it seems.

 

Also, for a lot of kids, they get what ever they want just by begging for it. Every week or so is like Christmas. We only got stuff for our birthdays, Christmas, or when the new school year started (new clothes, new shoes, new notebooks). These kids have no sense for what things cost until they get jobs. I see some of them confronting reality when their parents stop paying for their stuff once they get employment, then they become obsessed with their jobs and what they are going to spend all the cash on.

 

This is our society. Capitalism is good, but there is a price to pay for it.

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My practiced belief: its a joint responsibility of both.

 

I think the teacher has a responsibility to lay out those items that the students need to learn. And make it challenging.

 

As a Parent, Its my responsibility to do all I can to help ensure my child has time to study, understands the importance of learning, provide her with an environment to study and insure that school work is a necessary priority in our household. I have a responsibility to limit her TV watching times and also insure she gets restful sleep at night, good meals during the day and a mother and father that believe in her.

 

Many more variable to mention. It like politics in some ways. Our elected official have a responsibility and others of us have a responsibility to VOTE.

 

Just my .02

 

 

..........Widder

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Both need to be doing their parts to get kids to learn better....If a kid acts better (parents part) it makes it easier to be disciplined to learn from competent teachings (teachers part).

 

GG ~:FlagAm:

 

 

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Parents.

 

If children are not being educated, it is the responsibility of the parent to correct the problem. They should look to their child first. One of the most important lessons my mother taught me was that I could learn something from even the most incompetent teacher.

 

Cheers,

BJT

 

Fully agree.

 

 

Parents should be involved in their children's education. Ultimately, it's not the responsibility of the school system to educate our kids. It's ours.

 

 

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Parents are the ultimate sourse of teaching respect, values and manners. Teachers "teach"

they should not be baby sitters or disciplinarians, that's the responsability of the parents. Teachers have their hands full with the size of the classes to help cut costs.

Larger classes might work if the parents and teachers worked hand and hand to solve the

problems. Some of the parents need to get involved more and some are doing their best just

to keep the boat afloat. Working together might work...... :blush:

Happy trails

QDG

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Who has the ultimate responsibility for the scores/grades/knowledge of US school students?

 

The students.

 

Among adults it is the mutual responsbility of both the parents and the teachers. The parents have the responsiblity to make sure their kids are ready to learn. The teachers have the responsbility of teaching effectively.

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It's the parents and lack of discipline at home. I have two credentials and teach in CA public schools, tutor private lessons evenings for a nationwide tutoring company, and have also been a private swim teacher for 50 summers. First hand, I can tell you they are different at home than at school with their friends-- parents should know that already. I cannot even count the number of burning hoops a person has to jump thru to become a teacher let alone the ones they have to jump thru to remain a teacher. The state has made student performance a teacher problem and the districts are bound to comply to their demands. Every state has required academic standards as well as does every district. Teachers have to meet all of those criteria in the classroom, and are doing their jobs with a full heart, but have little support from parents. At least 30% of classroom time [sometimes more] is spent on disciplining the few who have a need to constantly disrupt, making learning for the others impossible. Most parents think it's the school's responsibility once their kid walks thru the door, and they don't want anything to do with it. Then when the kid gets consequences [detention, suspension, removal to another school] they want to sue. I was a single parent who soon discovered the school was my friend and a dad to my kids. When they did not want to get up to go, or do their homework, I called the school and reported them truant, and had them on a weekly academic/behavior reporting card with teachers and me. It worked and saved us all a lot of stress.

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It's the parents and lack of discipline at home. I have two credentials and teach in CA public schools, tutor private lessons evenings for a nationwide tutoring company, and have also been a private swim teacher for 50 summers. I cannot even count the number of burning hoops a person has to jump thru to become a teacher let alone the ones they have to jump thru to remain a teacher. The state has made student performance a teacher problem and the districts are bound to comply to their demands. Every state has required academic standards as well as does every district. Teachers have to meet all of those criteria in the classroom, and are doing their jobs with a full heart, but have little support from parents. At least 30% of classroom time [sometimes more] is spent on disciplining the few who have a need to constantly disrupt, making learning for the others impossible. Most parents think it's the school's responsibility once their kid walks thru the door, and they don't want anything to do with it. Then when the kid gets consequences [detention, suspension, removal to another school] they want to sue. I was a single parent who soon discovered the school was my friend and Dad to my kids. When they did not want to get up to go, or do their homework, I called the school and reported them truant, and had them on a weekly academic/behavior reporting card with teachers and me. It worked and saved us all a lot of stress.

 

 

Yep, my daughter in law is a teacher. you sound just like her, but her husband suffered from some really bad teachers. I still think it is a joint responsbility.

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I dunno. The posse leader? :wacko:

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Great question. But I don't think there's a great answer. There are really good teachers and really bad teachers. The same goes for students and parents.

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My wife is an elementary special-ed teacher in LA.

 

I don't believe you can assign the responsibility to learn to anyone except the person who is being taught.

 

With that said, it is the parent's responsibility to ensure the kids come to school on time with the proper materials in a state of mind to learn. Teacher's and other student's should not be pooling supplies in order to ensure everyone has paper and a pencil six weeks into the school year. It is also the parent's responsibility to ensure the kids complete assigned homework.

 

It is the teacher's responsibility to put out the proper information in accordance with lesson plans based on the approved curriculum and test to that curriculum.

 

Teacher's should not be teaching to a standardized State test. Kids are not being taught to reason and figure out problems anymore.

 

It is the responsibility of the administration, the teachers, and the parents to hold the students accountable for not only their grades/knowledge, but also their actions/discipline in class.

 

I will be retiring from the Navy in about two years. I have yet to use my GI Bill and have thought often of becoming a teacher. But I have to be honest and admit that after 20+ years in the Navy, I may not be a good candidate to teach in a school with students that are not disciplined and that do not allow teachers/administration to discipline.

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Parents!

 

My wife is a teacher, we have two daughters, and I have spent over a decade dealing with our juvenile court system as an assistant prosecutor.

 

Based on all of that, I come to the conclusion that schools are, at best, a resource to be utilized. The education is there to be had, but it is up to the students to take advantage of it and the parents to see that they do. It is also the job of parents to make sure that the resource is being offered in a manner which is compatible with the child's needs and challenging to the child's abilities.

 

As a child, I suffered from a couple of "bad teachers." My parents were in conferences or in the principal's office to see what could be done about the situation. I also had many, many good teachers. Think about it for a second, in a child's school career, they will likely learn from dozens of different teachers, in a number of different subjects, in several different schools, over twelve years time, thirteen if you count Kindergarten. The one constant? Their parents.

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I dunno. The posse leader? :wacko:

 

 

UB, are ya sure posse leader makes that much of an impression? I think the score keeper is A1, but for sure keep the kids away from the brass pickers. :blink:

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UB, are ya sure posse leader makes that much of an impression? I think the score keeper is A1, but for sure keep the kids away from the brass pickers. :blink:

:lol:

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Howdy:

 

Good teachers are very much a factor. However, Parents with large hands and a willingness to use them to swat you are very definitely a plus. I was "banned" from the classroom from 4th grade on (misanthropic behavioral patterns was the term they used). One short plump Irish lady taught me the rest of my elementary school life. She never raised her voice or hit me - I was number 2 in the graduation class. In High School, another little old Irish lady of girth saved me from the Principle almost daily. I will never forget her...she was my "Mom" at school. Both are in Heaven now and I miss them and kept in contact with them til they left this world. My parents were always their to "make adjustments" to my behavior pattern" when needed - most were moderate - some were not. Some kids just need extra direction, some need a kick in the rear, I needed both and am thankful I got both.

 

STL Suomi

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everything said has merit, joint efforts--of course--but these days, there are constant teacher evaluations by administrators, and repeated student evaluations in return and to parents. They all have many chances to make things better daily.

 

I have substituted without a contract for the last 5 years, and am still not sure where the 'bad' teachers are anymore. If you aren't up to standards, you are gone the following year! However, that should not be a decided by kids who don't shpw up or do the work. A student can still choose to do assignments or not and do their best or not. When I was a kid in the 50s sure there were some teachers who were distinctly better or worse than others, but with all the requisites and constraints on teaching the last decade, the balance has to be on parental expectations.

 

My district is 96% Hispanic, and the academic expectations by the parents are generally low and not a priority in most cases, even when they get free private tutoring by me from the NCLB company [no child left behind law by Bush]. Most don't care if they can read or get good grades. Many students have little respect at home for parents or for authority at school. The other 4% are Asian, Black or White students. It has been my personal teaching experience in this district for 3 yrs that the Asian students do not have similar academic or behavior problems. Academics is a priority, and expectations are high, making discipline a non-issue.

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Who has the ultimate responsibility for the scores/grades/knowledge of US school students?

The student.

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One of the most important lessons my mother taught me was that I could learn something from even the most incompetent teacher.

 

Cheers,

BJT

 

+1. :)

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Well, the job title is teacher, I suppose that means their job is to teach. Likewise a parents job is to parent, I have found that parenting often involves teaching, and sometimes unteaching.

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The responsibility is 100% the parents'. They are responsible for the feeding, clothing, sheltering, health and welfare, and yes, the education of their little charges. Parents delegate authority to teach the children to their local school board, parish school program, private school administration, or whomever else they send their kiddies off to -- excepting those parents who choose to "home-school" their children or participate in a community home schoolers' network. Authority to perform some task or temporarily execute some duties is not the same thing as responsibility, and responsiblity is not a transferable quality.

 

In other words, your agreement to assist me in performing some duties associated with my responsibility in no way absolves me of any portion of my responsibility.

 

And before someone suggests it, shared responsibility is irresponsibility : no raindrop feels that it is to blame for the flood!

 

Maybe that is our basic problem in education -- if parents would take "ownership" of the issue we could make progress...and if parents don't step up, no one else can.

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Privatize the school system and EVERYONE wins…but then the Gov has less money to misappropriate and they lose the platform to push their agenda one young minds.

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Parents. Plural. Kids from a stable two-parent household where the parents are actually involved with their kids do better in school, and everywhere else. That does not mean buying them the latest whizzo game system or dumping them off at soccer practice.

 

As the basic family unit goes, so goes society. And right now we're on the brink. Some segments have already fallen off the cliff, and are dragging the rest of us over.

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Privatize the school system and EVERYONE wins…but then the Gov has less money to misappropriate and they lose the platform to push their agenda one young minds.

 

Correct. Allow the money to go with the child and parents. This will allow some correction in the education market. We educate to make them ultimately marketable and be employable, why not make the educational process subject to market forces? Ah, but is the goal to educate or make dutiful, obedient, collectivist minded citizens? Dismantle the Dept of Education. Let the states handle education on their own. Money hasn't solved anything yet (made it worse if ya ask me). So don't argue we'll be taking money away and cause harm. We'll eliminate the Washington middle men if anything. The same thing that's wrong with medicine is the same thing wrong with education. Politics.

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Who has the ultimate responsibility for the scores/grades/knowledge of US school students?

 

 

Ultimately ~ THE STUDENT.

 

But as between parents and teachers ~ THE PARENT.

 

It is the teachers' duty to provide access to the education. It is the STUDENT'S responsibility to seize that opportunity, and the PARENTS' duty to back up the teachers and emphasize the importance of that education to the student, by making sure homework is done, studying is done, etc., before the TV and games are permitted.

 

Buena suerte,

eGG

 

(who was an exemplary student from time to time, and mediocre to poor at other times, but was NEVER in doubt about how important my parents regarded my schooling)

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Parents. Plural. Kids from a stable two-parent household where the parents are actually involved with their kids do better in school, and everywhere else. As the basic family unit goes, so goes society. And right now we're on the brink. Some segments have already fallen off the cliff, and are dragging the rest of us over.

 

Con su permiso, I must take issue with this statement, compadre! Kids from single parent families can do just fine. My mother was from a single parent family (David Copperfield had nothing on Gramps for a disappearing act) and Mom and two sisters and two brothers all graduated from High School, got jobs and ended up quite well-to-do, despite Nana being freaking JAILED for several years by the state of Connecticut for being unable to support her kids during their teens. Not one had trouble with the law and all were upstanding citizens. They grew up in the 1920's & '30's.

 

Yes, this is anecdotal. But real.

 

Plenty of military brats (myself included) are raised in a virtual single parent family without ending up in jail.

 

There have always been single parent families. It is not a new phenomenon. When it comes right down to it, the choices the kids make are what counts.

 

Buena suerte, amigo ~

eGG

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The student.

 

Education is not a spectator sport. Knowledge cannot be poured into a passive brain.

 

Standards began to fall when high schools and colleges abandoned classical curricula and adopted the trade-school approach...training for specific vocations rather than a firm background applicable for the rest of a person's life.

 

I taught a college course in night school for 15 years. My students wanted me to tell them everything they would ever need to know so they could parrot it back on a test...give them a "thought" problem, and they were lost, and would complain to the Dean about unfair tests.

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Kids learn how to "behave" as well as how to love learning more or less during the interval from first walking to first intelligble talking. After that, they should be well programmed to execute "learning 2.0" and "excellence 3.1" simultaneously without further prompting.

 

If they don't, often times that shows up in underperforming at school, and excellence in gathering the attention of the aauthorities as the teen years progress.

 

 

Now, if a kid is marginal, maybe a good teacher sways the outcome, but if they never got the basics at the right time, it's tough to make that work.

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Guest Paniolo Cowboy SASS #75875

The Student

 

Part of getting assignments and meeting deadlines to get in term papers and homework and such is to build responsibility in the Student.

 

The Parent is responsible for giving their kids encouragement in one form or another.

 

My mom and dad used the carrot and the stick on us kids. The carrot was represented by dinner. If we didn't do our chores and homework, then we went without dinner until it got done. The stick was easy, if we gave any lip about not being able to do it. Dad would take his strap to us.

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Howdy El Gato - There's no doubt that kids from single parent households can do just fine in life. Yours is a good example, and even in my family as well. My grandmother died in 1920, leaving Grampa with 6 kids to raise. Out of them came two nurses, one minister, and three skilled tradesmen. The difference between then and now are the circumstances and sense of values.

 

Consider this: I heard a statistic the other day that in one of Ohio's major cities, in one demographic, the illegitimacy rate is 70%, and the drop-out rate in that group is 60%. Coming from a culture of fractured family, subsidized (or free) housing, food, cell phones, and a host of other amenities there's no incentive to amount to anything because everything is going to be handed to them anyway. Somebody else is paying for it, so who cares? Kids have even gotten beat up because they were trying to excel and get good grades. How do you combat a cultural mindset like that?

 

Where did all this start? Much of it has its roots in The Great Society legislation in the 60's. Back then the poverty rate was around 10%. 40 years and 13 trillion dollars later, the poverty rate is around 10%. They didn't make poverty go away, they merely subsidized it. The one thing they did do was to minimize the importance of the father in the family, trying to replace him with the government. From what I can see, that didn't work out too well.

 

Strong individuals come from families (even single parent ones) that instill values of personal responsibility, achievement, work ethic, education and other positive attributes. Even if that's not the upbringing some people had, they can rise above their circumstances if they want to. Strong families build a strong, stable, and prosperous society. It's a continuous loop.

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The responsibility is 100% the parents'. They are responsible for the feeding, clothing, sheltering, health and welfare, and yes, the education of their little charges. Parents delegate authority to teach the children to their local school board, parish school program, private school administration, or whomever else they send their kiddies off to -- excepting those parents who choose to "home-school" their children or participate in a community home schoolers' network. Authority to perform some task or temporarily execute some duties is not the same thing as responsibility, and responsiblity is not a transferable quality.

 

In other words, your agreement to assist me in performing some duties associated with my responsibility in no way absolves me of any portion of my responsibility.

 

And before someone suggests it, shared responsibility is irresponsibility : no raindrop feels that it is to blame for the flood!

 

Maybe that is our basic problem in education -- if parents would take "ownership" of the issue we could make progress...and if parents don't step up, no one else can.

 

 

Pretty much how I see it.

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