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2 newbie uestions about SA choices


Bourbon Butch

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Howdy -

 

I just recently joined SASS and just went out to my first club match to observe and ask questions. I'm ready to jump in with both feet and am seeking opinions/advice about which SA pistols to "consider". I'm leaning toward match-ready, to save me a step.

 

1st question - is it better/easier/more economical to get a pair of SA pistols and send them to a competent 'smith for tuning or just go straight for the match-ready pistols?

 

2nd question - if match-ready, which ones to consider? I've looked at Ruger SASS Vaqueros, Cimarron Evil Roy Model-P's, Turner Smoke Wagon's Deluxe, and the Uberti El Patrons. They all seem to offer about the same "options" and for nearly the same price-point. 45 Long Colt, btw.

 

Thanks. Stay safe.

 

rich aka Bourbon Butch, #91135

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Have you had all of the guns in your hands? The size of you hands makes a lot of differance.Make sure you try guns and find out which ones fit your hands best.

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First of all, try the different models you are considering, see how they fit your hands. Let that narrow your choices.

 

As far as match ready or not, I can't help you there, I bought box stock Ruger New Vaqueros and love them. Only smoothing that's been done to them is cleaning and shooting them as much as possible.

 

If you try some race ready guns and that is what you want and can afford, I would suggest buying them already slicked up. Way less hassle than buying, sending off, waiting, etc. the top smiths can have long wait times.

 

Now when you start talking rifle, I would say buy one slicked up, there are more moving parts and what not with a rifle. When I bought my Marlin the only one I could find was new and slicked up by Jimmy Spurs, a well known SASS affiliated gunsmith. When I compare it to other lever guns I own the difference is night and day.

 

I'm sure others will chime in who have first hand experience with race ready pistols.

 

Have fun, hang on, and enjoy the ride!

 

Grizz

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First of all, try the different models you are considering, see how they fit your hands. Let that narrow your choices.

 

As far as match ready or not, I can't help you there, I bought box stock Ruger New Vaqueros and love them. Only smoothing that's been done to them is cleaning and shooting them as much as possible.

 

If you try some race ready guns and that is what you want and can afford, I would suggest buying them already slicked up. Way less hassle than buying, sending off, waiting, etc. the top smiths can have long wait times.

 

Now when you start talking rifle, I would say buy one slicked up, there are more moving parts and what not with a rifle. When I bought my Marlin the only one I could find was new and slicked up by Jimmy Spurs, a well known SASS affiliated gunsmith. When I compare it to other lever guns I own the difference is night and day.

 

I'm sure others will chime in who have first hand experience with race ready pistols.

 

Have fun, hang on, and enjoy the ride!

 

Grizz

 

 

You can't find better "slicked up" guns then those sold or reworked by Jimmy Spurs, I have a pair of USFA pistolas he did for me and they are slicker than snot on a metal door knob. Only thing is, you have to wait a while to getum back. This goes to the question of getting slicked up first, unless you have several pair to play with while you wait and wait and wait...even fast, seems too long.

Abilene

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I think the ones you mention are all based on the Uberti made SAA and tuned to the equivalent of the earlier ER model, including checkered Gunfighter style grips? I really like the ERs out of the box BUT there are shooters who would turn their nose up at this level of action work and there is nothing wrong with this. I have handled other shooters guns that were tuned beyond my comfort level but those shooters seemed to do real good with them. I think that even a new shooter can appreciate a smoother gun like the pretuned ones and if you feel the same way, I have little doubt that this is the more economical way and then go for further custom improvements as you can tell the gunsmith what you want and know why you want it.

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Howdy -

 

I just recently joined SASS and just went out to my first club match to observe and ask questions. I'm ready to jump in with both feet and am seeking opinions/advice about which SA pistols to "consider". I'm leaning toward match-ready, to save me a step.

 

1st question - is it better/easier/more economical to get a pair of SA pistols and send them to a competent 'smith for tuning or just go straight for the match-ready pistols?

 

2nd question - if match-ready, which ones to consider? I've looked at Ruger SASS Vaqueros, Cimarron Evil Roy Model-P's, Turner Smoke Wagon's Deluxe, and the Uberti El Patrons. They all seem to offer about the same "options" and for nearly the same price-point. 45 Long Colt, btw.

 

Thanks. Stay safe.

 

rich aka Bourbon Butch, #91135

 

 

I originally went with Ruger for the warranty and the fact that they come from here. No regrets. But you need to buy what fits your hand best and what feels the best to you. All of those are good. I do love my SAA's though....

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Just my opinion, I've owned and shot just about everything on the market and will give you my choices on all your firearms.

 

1) SAA firearms... US Firearms by Long Hunter. slicked and ready to go out of the box

 

2) 1873 Uberti lever action rifle . You can order direct from Cowboys and Indian store in Santa Ana Ca.. Order with 4th. gen action job.

 

3) 1897 pump shot gun. Slicked up by the same folks at Cowboys and indians. If your not ready for the sticker shock of the 1897. I have a rare double barrel already slicked up and ready to go if interested.

 

Good Luck and have fun in this game. I certainly have. :rolleyes:

 

If you have any questions give me a call. I'll give you my number if you PM me.

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Or you could minimize your initial cost by buying a pair of standard Ruger NVs, and doing NOTHING to them until you are faster than the Rugers.

 

After you gain some proficiency, do a quick action job by removing one grip panel, and disengaging the trigger spring on one side, reducing the amount of trigger pull.

 

Then as your speed increases, install a spring package (or only the hammer spring) and reduce the effort needed to cock the hammer.

 

The base pin on some Rugers has a habit of walking forward, locking up the action. Make it a habit to push the base pin in when at the loading table. Or in a spring kit, a stronger base pin spring can be included.

 

Buy a pair of SBH hammers when your speed improves to make cocking faster, particularly if you're shooting single-handed.

 

Remove the anti-reverse pawl (if I have the correct name) and your NV will spin both ways when the loading gate is opened, so you don't have to go around at the loading table if you miss loading a chamber.

 

Later on, you might have the transfer bar removed and a Colt-style hammer modification done with half-cock so that if you short stroke the hammer, you don't have to go around again to fire the cartridge in that chamber where you short-stroked it.

 

In my opinion, the NV is the best deal going for a new cowboy, and many very experienced and fast cowboys shoot them. They are built like a tank.

 

I now shoot Open Tops because I like the look and feel. $400 for the pistol, $300 for the action work! Really makes the Rugers look like a bargain.

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Howdy Bourbon Butch and Welcome. As others have said get out there and handle some of the different models. IMHO it's better to go ahead and buy straight from the gunsmith already tuned, this will save the cost of shipping back and forth unless you have a local smith do the work. Here's a few of the more popular smiths that offer package deals (in no particular order) I've owned firearms from four of these and have been more than satisfied, Good Luck.

 

http://www.codyscowboyshop.com/

http://www.longhunt.com/missing.html

http://www.pioneergunworks.com/

http://cowboygunworks.com/index.html

http://www.cowboysandindianstore.com/

 

Jefro :ph34r: Relax-Enjoy

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Welcome, Butch.

 

I've only been shooting a year but I'll give you the benefit of my considerable experience. :)

 

Ultimately the decision of what makes YOU happy is up to you.

 

I would recommend that you wait a bit before buying and see if you can handle (if not shoot under match conditions) examples of the revolvers you are considering. I think a Ruger is different from any of the Uberti revolvers. Not better, not worse, just different.

 

To answer your question I'll say that it made sense to ME to purchase my revolvers (and later my rifle) from a gunsmith ready to go. Once I factored in what it would cost to buy the revolvers locally, send them off for work, paying shipping three times, the "smithed" guns were a bargain. Plus I didn't have to wait for the same guns twice. I chose the SASS Edition New Vaqueros from Longhunter.

 

Keep in mind that all gunsmiths' work is not the same. Not that one is superior to the others but they differ. More work costs more money. Is it worth the extra money? Only you can decide. My guns don't have the lightest actions in town but they have never misfired, even as I was chewing through my old stock of CCI primers that I am too cheap to discard.

 

Here's a response to a question you didn't ask. You might want to keep an open mind on caliber. Whether you buy ammo or handload, your costs would be much less shooting .38 Special over .45 Colt. No question the big bore guns are cool but it will cost more to play with the .45.

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Butch,

Before you spend your hard earned money get to a match. The Cowboys in Norco offer a New Shooter's Class that is worth every nickel. You'll get first rate instruction on Cowboy Action Shooting, and you can try various types and calibers of cowboy six guns, shotguns and rifles. Before and after the class you can visit with the 130+ shooters that are there for the monthly match and talk with them about their gun choices and costuming. The next match is Sunday, February 27th. Sign-ups start at 8:00a.m. Come on out and have a great time. :FlagAm:

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Butch,

Before you spend your hard earned money get to a match. The Cowboys in Norco offer a New Shooter's Class that is worth every nickel. You'll get first rate instruction on Cowboy Action Shooting, and you can try various types and calibers of cowboy six guns, shotguns and rifles. Before and after the class you can visit with the 130+ shooters that are there for the monthly match and talk with them about their gun choices and costuming. The next match is Sunday, February 27th. Sign-ups start at 8:00a.m. Come on out and have a great time. :FlagAm:

 

Thanks. Very sound advice. I think I may have to bring the whole family up and make a day of it!!!

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Welcome, Butch.

 

I've only been shooting a year but I'll give you the benefit of my considerable experience. :)

 

Ultimately the decision of what makes YOU happy is up to you.

 

I would recommend that you wait a bit before buying and see if you can handle (if not shoot under match conditions) examples of the revolvers you are considering. I think a Ruger is different from any of the Uberti revolvers. Not better, not worse, just different.

 

To answer your question I'll say that it made sense to ME to purchase my revolvers (and later my rifle) from a gunsmith ready to go. Once I factored in what it would cost to buy the revolvers locally, send them off for work, paying shipping three times, the "smithed" guns were a bargain. Plus I didn't have to wait for the same guns twice. I chose the SASS Edition New Vaqueros from Longhunter.

 

Keep in mind that all gunsmiths' work is not the same. Not that one is superior to the others but they differ. More work costs more money. Is it worth the extra money? Only you can decide. My guns don't have the lightest actions in town but they have never misfired, even as I was chewing through my old stock of CCI primers that I am too cheap to discard.

 

Here's a response to a question you didn't ask. You might want to keep an open mind on caliber. Whether you buy ammo or handload, your costs would be much less shooting .38 Special over .45 Colt. No question the big bore guns are cool but it will cost more to play with the .45.

 

Appreciate the info/advice. I originally planned for 38/357 but reconsidered when I learned I'd be excluding myself from Classic Cowboy. I've had a chance to hold (not shoot) several New Vaqueros and a few Uberti-type Colt Clones. Both seemed to point well and neither really "jumped out" at me and said "this one" or "not this one". I've shot 45 ACP in USPSA for a number of years and have always found CAS interesting. I don't think I'll have any problems "converting". It looks like a great time! Thanks again.

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I think the ones you mention are all based on the Uberti made SAA and tuned to the equivalent of the earlier ER model, including checkered Gunfighter style grips? I really like the ERs out of the box BUT there are shooters who would turn their nose up at this level of action work and there is nothing wrong with this. I have handled other shooters guns that were tuned beyond my comfort level but those shooters seemed to do real good with them. I think that even a new shooter can appreciate a smoother gun like the pretuned ones and if you feel the same way, I have little doubt that this is the more economical way and then go for further custom improvements as you can tell the gunsmith what you want and know why you want it.

 

Appreciate your advice! What do you mean by "turn their nose up at this level of action work"? A controversy of some sort? I'm guessing you are referring to lightened trigger pull? I've shot USPSA with about a 3 lb pull - I find it's just something you get used to. Is there really any safer firearm available than a SA revolver?? Thanks again. Stay safe.

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Two thoughts on this:

1. Typically part of the tuning process inclludes lightening the main springs. Rugers, Colts and Colt-clones can be crazy-slick by doing this, cleaning up manufacturing marks in the parts and tuning the other springs. Lightening the main spring may mean that the gun will not reliably detonate certain primers. Are you reloading yet? Include this in your conversations with any gunsmith or other cowboy shooters.

2. Get to cowboy matches before you buy. You can talk to other shooters. They will have a plethora of information.

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Howdy Bourbon Butch and Welcome. As others have said get out there and handle some of the different models. IMHO it's better to go ahead and buy straight from the gunsmith already tuned, this will save the cost of shipping back and forth unless you have a local smith do the work. Here's a few of the more popular smiths that offer package deals (in no particular order) I've owned firearms from four of these and have been more than satisfied, Good Luck.

 

http://www.codyscowboyshop.com/

http://www.longhunt.com/missing.html

http://www.pioneergunworks.com/

http://cowboygunworks.com/index.html

http://www.cowboysandindianstore.com/

 

Jefro :ph34r: Relax-Enjoy

 

Plus one on Jefro's choices. You'll be happy wid a gun done by any of these. Go to a match an figger out what kind of gun ya like first.

 

 

RRR

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If you want a pair of Rugers slicked up and ready to go.

Jimmy Spurs is second to NONE

He sells new and used guns ready to go,if he has some in stock.

 

My wife bought a pair from him last year at Guns of August and they are the slickest guns I have ever held.

They are soo smooth its hard to believe the actually set off a primer.

Another local pard had Jimmy do a set and he uses Winchester primers and has no problems with them.

If fact, he has my old model Ruger Bisleys doing an full action job on them as we speak.

 

I am not a top shooter, but do enjoy quality guns.

I wish I would have had the sense to buy a top level gun when I first started and it would have saved me a lot of grief and money in the long run.

 

Just my two cents worth.

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Others will have different ideas, but if there is not a compelling reason to have lightened hammers, glass rod trigger etc., such as arthritis in the thumbs, nerve damage and muscle weakness an so on, you can to just fine with a good set of stock as a rock pistols, providing they did not ship from the factory with a problem. We are not winning and losing matches by X count at 25 yards (the little innermost circle on a bulleye target used as the first tie breaker, world class shooters nearly always shoot all 10s and the X count generally will be the difference). Having said that in large measure shooting is a mind game, if you believe you will shoot better and faster with a slicked up gun, you probably will. If you believe your gun cant hit diddly squat, that also will probably be true.

 

A stock ruger will be reliable and all that I have shot shoot where you point them. At the very top end of the sport, I am sure Evil Roy shooting a slicked up gun, will out shoot Evil Roy shooting a non slicked gun, but probably not by very much.

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I will chip in too:

Old model Ruger Vaqueros if your hands are big

New model Vaqueros if your hands are medium. I like the checkered grips on the NMVs better, and the SASS model has the nice hammer.

No need to send to a smith, but install the lighter spring kits available. Check out Marauder's website for this. I like Longhunters new model SASS a lot. Vaqueros are built to strong and you can dry fire them too.

 

The Colt shop sells great originals and I have a set of those, but they are more expensive but hold resale value.

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Howdy -

 

I just recently joined SASS and just went out to my first club match to observe and ask questions. I'm ready to jump in with both feet and am seeking opinions/advice about which SA pistols to "consider". I'm leaning toward match-ready, to save me a step.

 

1st question - is it better/easier/more economical to get a pair of SA pistols and send them to a competent 'smith for tuning or just go straight for the match-ready pistols?

 

2nd question - if match-ready, which ones to consider? I've looked at Ruger SASS Vaqueros, Cimarron Evil Roy Model-P's, Turner Smoke Wagon's Deluxe, and the Uberti El Patrons. They all seem to offer about the same "options" and for nearly the same price-point. 45 Long Colt, btw.

 

Thanks. Stay safe.

 

rich aka Bourbon Butch, #91135

 

Well - that's always a fun question, and it comes up around the fire at least annually.

 

I like the Rugers and the Colts, depending on how much money I have at hand when I'm shopping.

The Rugers are great guns, and they're fine out of the box, but like any man made device they

can be made better, it just takes a bit of green-back therapy.

 

They'll serve you fine as is, and if they need a touch of tweeking, you can buy springs from

Brownells that will change the trigger pull and the hammer spring a bit - but they don't need

much lightening in this game, unless you're just that darn fast . . .in which case you probably

don't need any advice from 90% of the folks on this wire.

 

Colts are a tad bit different - and some folks (me included) think they're special in their

own right, others will argue that. If you could afford it - buy 'em - you'll never regret it -

even if you feel compelled to invest a few more dollars in a trigger job . . . .

 

Two points - get what you want - this is a game - get what makes you feel good about playing it.

also - you're into guns - you know we buy 'em and we trade 'em - sometimes we lose a few dollars,

sometimes we make a few - it's part of the game . . . in all likelihood at some time you might

trade a gun or two - it's okay . . . . it's not a crime! Buy what you like - if it doesn't work

out - trade it for something else . . . it's a game - it's not life or death . . . .

 

NEVER take it serious - in 150 years no one else will know or care . . . .

 

Shadow Catcher

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As far as I know the Smoke Wagons are the only above guns mentioned that have a slightly lowered hammer, wider back sight ramp and thicker front sight. They're great guns and Taylor's is an A1 company. Just my 2 cents, Rye

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You didn't say what category or shooting style you intend to enter nor what your budget might be. You only asked about revolvers and mentioned .45 Colt as your caliber of choice. You didn't mention whether cost is no object or whether you have a budget.

 

I'm seen some incredibly fast shooting with Rugers that are bone stock with the exception of some lighter springs. I'm pretty sure that that was what Deuce Stevens was using in his world record pistol run. Full-race guns won't hurt anyone but if you don't have unlimited funds your money would be better spent on ammo and/or reloading equipment and components early on in the game. Most guns are very reliable nowadays, Rugers are darn near indestructible and you can always get your money (or most of it) back out of stock Rugers.

 

On the other hand, having full-race guns doesn't hurt anyone so a shooter at any skill level will derive some benefit from them. Do not assume however that equipment will will make you fast, only practice will do that.

 

One final point would be caliber. All else being equal, you will be faster with .38's rather than .45's and you would be able to shoot a lot more with .38's for the same cost. Factory ammo for .45's costs WAY more than .38's and the reloading costs, while not nearly as extreme, also favor the .38's. .38 brass is always available and reasonable, especially used brass. .45 brass is sometimes in short supply and is rarely cheap. Except for Classic Cowboy, you can use .38's in any cartridge category.

 

Back to the choice of guns, go to that new shooters school and some matches. Other shooters will be more than happy to let you handle their guns and you can see what feels best to you.

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New Model Vaqueros are pretty slick out-of-the-box. Of course not being able to leave well enough alone, I installed the Longhunter spring kits in mine. It took about 10 minutes for the first and 5 minutes for the second. I can't imagine needing anything slicker than they are now. In fact, I might put he stock trigger springs back in; the trigger pull is too light for my tastes. I'm going to shoot a match this weekend with the 30 oz trigger pull and then decide.

 

My point being that changing springs is cheap and easy and probably nets you the majority of the "slick" feel that you get with a full action job. If you get a good deal on race guns, then by all means go for it. If you are on a budget, the Rugers with lighter springs will work great.

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I like the Rugers because you "can" shoot them out of the box. Or you can put lighter springs in yourself right off the bat in 5 minutes for change you can find in the sofa cushions. If that still aint enough for you then you can ship them off to Jimmy Spurs and he can do anything you can imagine to them, half-cocks, unbelievably light/smooth action or even a short stroke if that's yer thing. I guess what I'm saying is they are a great gun that you can grow with as a shooter and stop where you need to weahter it's your specific shooting needs or financially. It's a just great platform to build on…and made in the USA which seems to be a rare thing nowadays.

 

That said if you start with the best you never have to look back and you grow into the guns......that's my personal favorite.

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