Marshal TKD, Sass # 36984L Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 OK Pards I have a 73 question, or two. I did search the wire and did not find a answer so here goes. First of all, the ejection process of a 73. Is the carrier striking the bottom of the fired round a part of that or is there a timing issue. Secondly if this is a timing issue is this fixed by removing material off the pad on the lifter, effectivly slowing the carrier rise down a little more. Right now the rifle jams up when you run it slow or fast. The jam is the spent case being caught by the carrier and the extrator will not relaes the round. This happens with the aluminum carrier in place. The rifle ran fine for 10 rounds at full speed and then I had to double lever it to get it to eject. Brass carrier in place it jams up when run slow. The rifle is short stroked. 73 Jam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 M TKD- This is certainly a timing problem. First, the carrier is the "ejector" for a 73. The extractor on top of the bolt just holds the case (in combination with the cartridge rim tab at the bottom of the bolt) to pull the case back out of the chamber. The carrier rises and "kicks" the fired case up and out of the gun, by pushing up with the part of the carrier where you see the "hump" between the two levels of the top of the carrier block. This hump at the transition in levels pushes up on the case, forcing the case to rotate (mouth of case rises fastest) until the extractor hook looses it's hold, then the whole case can pop free from the action. Although your photo does not show much detail, here's what to look for with a carrier that rises too soon: With firearm empty, slowly work lever from closed to open position. Watch the carrier start to move up. Stop when the top of the back edge of carrier is just below the frame opening that the bolt runs in. Examine where the face of the bolt is at this point. I like my 73s timed to have the face of the bolt flush or even slightly set back into the frame at this point in the cycle. From looking at your photo, although it's not quite at the right angle to see this, it appears your carrier is coming up too quick, before the bolt face gets back to the frame. You are right in supposing that a carrier rising too fast is corrected by removing a LITTLE bit of metal from the contact pad on the lifter arm that makes contact with the lever (the lever has a sharp 90 degree shoulder just in front of the pivot screw - you can see the point of contact between the lever and the lifter by looking at the lower side of the action as you work it.) You don't remove much metal to affect the timing by a lot, because of the "leverage" multiplication in the design. The gunsmith who did your short-stroke install should be willing to make this right. See if you can get it back to them, unless you are pretty handy with tools. The slight difference in the amount of jamming you get between the AL carrier and the stock brass carrier will have to do with the shape of the hump in the top of the carrier block. But, whacking away at the carrier block can cause problems unless you know exactly how to tune it. So, adjust the lifter arm contact. Do not file on the lever - that is one of the most expensive parts in the action! Good luck, GJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mink Shoals Bandit, #49388 Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 What Joe said, as he mentioned, make sure the little tab is still on the bottom of the breech bolt. Here's some basic info on the timing, sounds like you may have other issues as well ? http://www.pioneergunworks.com/uploads/SS_Kit_Install.pdf Mink............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal TKD, Sass # 36984L Posted February 14, 2011 Author Share Posted February 14, 2011 Thanks for the replies, I have posted a new set of picts and a video. Updated 73 picts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate Kiowa Jones #6765 Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Thanks for the replies, I have posted a new set of picts and a video. Updated 73 picts Did you notice the ding in the aluminum carreir there in VIEW 3 OF 4? Most likely it's there because the carrier is coiming up just a tad too soon and the carrier is hitting the rim straight on and hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal TKD, Sass # 36984L Posted February 14, 2011 Author Share Posted February 14, 2011 Yes I did notice that and smoothed it out,then ran a few rounds through it and got the same results jammed up and carrier dinged. Is the relation of the carrier and the bolt a sign of the carrier rising to slow? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder SASS #13056 Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Yes I did notice that and smoothed it out,then ran a few rounds through it and got the same results jammed up and carrier dinged. Is the relation of the carrier and the bolt a sign of the carrier rising to slow? Yes, but as mentioned take it very slowly and test often. When you get it about right, put an empty brass or a dummy cartridge in the action. Make sure that the cartridge rim is NOT hitting the bottom tab of the bolt face. This is a common problem that a slightly out of time rifle will break that little tab and mess up ejection - and the Big Boys tell me it is rather expensive to replace the bolt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal TKD, Sass # 36984L Posted February 14, 2011 Author Share Posted February 14, 2011 One more pict of the carrier. The bolt face is flush with the frame, I put a piece of paper on the lifter to show the relation to the bolt. 73 Carrier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mink Shoals Bandit, #49388 Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Marshal, I think you and Marauder are talking about two different things? I think Marauder is talking about removing material from the lifter face, (See link I posted),as you need to slow the carrier down a little to keep from jamming the cartridge into the breech bolt. Mink............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colt McAllister Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 The bolt is retracting to fast for the dimensions of the carrier. Slowing the rise of the carrier will not help your problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Looks like you need to get the carrier up a bit sooner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal TKD, Sass # 36984L Posted February 14, 2011 Author Share Posted February 14, 2011 Thanks guys. I put a .020 shim in place and problem cured. Looks like now I have to get a new lifter and get it to work. Unless anybody has a better way to add material to the pad on the lifter. Welding does not seen like a good way to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Thanks guys. I put a .020 shim in place and problem cured. Looks like now I have to get a new lifter and get it to work. Unless anybody has a better way to add material to the pad on the lifter. Welding does not seen like a good way to go. Welding is actually exactly what you should do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder SASS #13056 Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 I agree with Phantom, if you know of a good welder. And it couldn't hurt. If it doesn't work, you can still get a new lifter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Welding is actually exactly what you should do. Yep, now that I can see what the time relations are, the carrier is too slow coming up. I've fixed that with a shim soft-soldered to the face of the pad on the lifter arm. There's no sideways forces on the shim - it will stay put even with epoxy for quite a number of rounds. Just some impact force when you get to running the lever hard. Try soldering, then you can still resort to welding if the fix does not seem to last. Good luck, GJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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