Measuring Black Powder

[Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283]

Whats the difference between a plastic hopper and the plastic bottle that Swiss and Schuetzen comes in?

 

Well, since I am such a smarty pants, know it all about ElectroStatic Discharge, I would like to tell you that Scheutzen and Swiss use special static dissipative plastics for their bottles. Yes, there is such a thing, the plastic has a load material, usually in the form of carbon, added to the resin. The carbon causes the plastic to be a weak conductor, which draws off a static charge slowly, rather than allowing an instantaneous discharge as normally happens when a spark jumps. But in order to honestly answer your question I took a multimeter today and tested an empty Schuetzen bottle and discovered that it is a perfect insulator. So it is just as good a static generator as the plastic hopper of a regular Smokeless powder measure.

 

Yes, I have seen all those photos of sparks jumping through Black Powder a zillion times. I have also seen many microscope photos of the damage tiny Electrostatic Discharge sparks have done to sensitive electronic components over my 24 years in the electronics industry.

 

I guess the real answer to your question is I don't hold the bottle of Schuetzen next to my head when I open it. A pound of Black Powder in a plastic hopper next to my head while I am loading still gives me the willies.

 

If you're concerned about static, giving the hopper and dispenser a good wipe down with an anti-static dryer sheet will reduce the chances of any charge build up. Also, since most powders - black, subs, and smokeless - are treated with graphite nowadays, that also helps cut down on static.

 

That's a nice thought, but wiping the bottle with a dryer sheet does not discharge the charge to ground.

[Captain Woodrow Cahill, SASS # 54363]

Howdy Driftwood - I've seen what static can do to electronics as well. Computers are especially sensitive to it, as are the flat panel screens most have these days. We have a real problem at work with this, especially in the winter when the humidity is down to about 25%. Couple that with carpeting (a really bad idea in a facility with nothing but electronic gear everywhere) and stuff gets zapped all the time. Screens go blank, data disappears, and you can always tell when it happens based on the occassional outbursts of profanity that punctuate the air.

 

Giving the hopper and dispenser a wipe down before filling it with powder will provide an anti-static coating. There are also sprays available, but I've never tried them so can't speak to their effectiveness or effect on powder or moving parts.

 

As long as a path to ground is present, the chances of static build-up and sparking discharge are reduced. In reloading, the operator is going to be that path. If you get a spark on the doorknob when going to your reloading area, take off your shoes and try again. No spark = no static. Some shoe soles are more prone to contributing to static than others. At the very worst, you'll end up reloading socked or barefoot. If you have a carpeted area and use an office chair, maybe spraying the carpet and chair wheels with the aforementioned spray would also help. The stuff is about $4 a bottle, and seems like rather inexpensive insurance.

 

I looked up the MSDS sheets published by the powder companies. They list a factor called the "Auto Ignition Temeprature". For black powder it's 867 degrees F, while for smokeless it's 360 degrees F. Seems to me that smokeless is a bit more sensitive, and would probably be more prone to going off in the presence of a static spark. So far no one seems overly concerned, and if it were an issue we would have all blown ourselves to smithereens long ago.

 

Personally, I think it's all just a temepst in a teapot.

[Iron Pony]

Well I'm concerned enough about static that I never pet any of the cats while I'm dispensing powder, smokeless or BP.

 

Its not a problem in the summer when humidity is high but now in the winter giving them a friendly rub is enough to make sparks and sound like a tiny string of firecrackers.

[Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283]

As long as a path to ground is present, the chances of static build-up and sparking discharge are reduced. In reloading, the operator is going to be that path. If you get a spark on the doorknob when going to your reloading area, take off your shoes and try again. No spark = no static. Some shoe soles are more prone to contributing to static than others. At the very worst, you'll end up reloading socked or barefoot. If you have a carpeted area and use an office chair, maybe spraying the carpet and chair wheels with the aforementioned spray would also help. The stuff is about $4 a bottle, and seems like rather inexpensive insurance.

 

Howdy Cap

 

Like I say, I worked in the electronics industry for 24 years, and had mandatory yearly training about ESD, which included photos of components that had literally been blown up by tiny static charges too small to feel. ESD costs the electronics industry millions of dollars every year. You ain't telling me anything I didn't already know. The only way to completely avoid static buildup is to keep the workstation, which includes the press, and the operator all at the same potential. In the electronics industry this included grounding the workstation AND the operator by wearing a wrist strap connected to ground. Grounding only the press alone without also grounding the operator accomplishes nothing because the operator generates a charge every time he moves. The wrist strap had a resistor in it so the operator would not get electrocuted if he accidentally touched a live wire. The floor was coated with a special static dissipative wax, and the humidity was kept high. I just don't want to go through all that, so I'll keep using a powder measure designed for Black Powder.

[Snakebite]

Putting a section of metal conduit over the powder hopper might help push any explosion in an "UP" direction and away from your face if it went off. Kinda like the protector tube around the primers. Also... I would never fill the hopper... I would only put in a minimum amount and resupply it often... less powder... less BOOM.

 

Of course.... I would never load real BP from a non-BP measure! This is all just conjecture.

 

Snakebite

[pony racer # 39210]

I build all my cartridges, with modern powder or black powder on a converted dillon 450 (basically a 550).

 

I use the plastic hoppers for modern powder only and I use the lee dippers to load all my black powder cartridge rounds.

 

It makes loading BPFC cartridges a little slower but by using the other bays of my progressive loader it is not that bad(as said before).

 

Plus I found out that I could use one lee dipper for both my 158 grain 38 special loads and my 205 grain 44 russian loads (the two loads I do the most)!

 

PR

[Abilene Slim SASS 81783]

Thanks for the info.

By the way (in an attempt not to hijack the thread): I measure how deep the bullet would seat in the cartridge, added 1/16", marked it on a fired case, cut it off with a dremel tool, deburred the end, and soldered a wire hanger handle to measure the BP.

I guess you could say it is a 'custom' brass powder dipper. It may be custom, but it ain't original. I'm sure there are thousands of them in use across this great nation of homegrown/backwoods engineers.

Howdy Zach, adding on to what Garrison Joe said, I shoot 200 grain bullets in .45 Cowboy Special cases in my pistols. It's much easier on the hands. I use the 250s in a .45 Colt case in my rifle.

 

For loading, I use a BP measure from Hornady on a Lock N Load press.

 

Welcome BP shooting!

[Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283]

What do you mean reverse engineer Driftwood? As a fellow yankee you should know he has handcrafted a folk art powder dipper.

 

Folk art my foot! Here in New England we have a long tradition of reverse engineering things. It goes right along with our equally long tradition of patent evasion. Colt and S&W were masters of it.

[Black Tooth Zach]

... 200 grain bullets in .45 Cowboy Special cases in my pistols... 250s in a .45 Colt case in my rifle...

Welcome BP shooting!

I think I'll give the cowboy special cases a try - I'll trim enough cases to shoot a stage or two with the cowboy specials to see how they work.

[Abilene Slim SASS 81783]

I think I'll give the cowboy special cases a try - I'll trim enough cases to shoot a stage or two with the cowboy specials to see how they work.

Howdy Zach. If you mean you're going to trim some .45 Colt cases to Cowboy Special lengths, that won't make it a CS case. The result is a case that has thicker walls than manufactured CS cases, especially at the mouth. I'm not expert enough to know what kind of effect that has on the cartridge, but you might want to send a PM to Adirondack Jack and ask him before trimming and loading.

 

At $27 per 100, you could just order a bag and save yourself the time.

 

Good luck!

[Jefro, SASS#69420]

Howdy Zach. If you mean you're going to trim some .45 Colt cases to Cowboy Special lengths, that won't make it a CS case. The result is a case that has thicker walls than manufactured CS cases, especially at the mouth. I'm not expert enough to know what kind of effect that has on the cartridge, but you might want to send a PM to Adirondack Jack and ask him before trimming and loading.

 

At $27 per 100, you could just order a bag and save yourself the time.

 

Good luck!

I agree, much easier to order them from AJ. Good Luck

http://www.cowboy45special.com/

 

Jefro