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Wild Bunch Gear Coming Along


Smithy

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After purchasing a Beretta Renegade 1873 copy for SASS work, I can move my Rossi 92 to back up duties and WB use. I'm waiting on CA's registration period for my Rock Island 1911 and just ordered my leather from Buffalo Brady Leather. http://www.buffalobradyleather.com/leatherCanvasGoods_WB.shtml My Stoger SXS or my IGA 1887 won't fill the bill for shotgun requirements, so I now need to acquire an 1897 from a reliable source? I have bought most of my cowboy guns through Ables http://www.ableammo.com/ due to their service and mainly their good prices. They currently list an Interstate Cowboy 1897 for 264.99. http://www.ableammo.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=120734 That is the least expensive I have seen one of these guns go for. Should I get it, or is Interstate a no go and I should look elsewhere? I'm open to you guy's experienced directions one way or the other. I know the suggestions will be to send it off to get it worked on, but if I could save money at the start I'd be money ahead. Thanks in advance for any help you folks can offer. Smithy.

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Thanks Grizz for the Phil Rezac link! He has absolutely everything from soup to nuts when it comes to SASS guns and then some and great prices too! My question now is, how many different ways are there to get an 1897; Ie. who makes them and who imports them? If it all boils down to one maker, then price would be the only thing in my decision process. But, if there are more than one makers and importers then I will need to weed through them to get the best quality piece at the best price. Smithy.

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The two importers I know of are IAC ( Interstate Arms Corp) and CAI (Century Arms International). I think IAC used to be Norinco and the guns are made at the Norinco factory. I had an early one marked Norinco and it was a good gun. My only gripe was it had "mystery wood", probably birch, stocks. I have had two of the CAI guns. They also had the name "Kuandian" on them. One would not work out of the box, but it worked great after some 'smithin. The second worked pretty good, it was okay loading one at a time, it did not work feeding from the magazine. Both of them had nice walnut stocks.

 

 

From what I understand, the CAI/Kuandian is not as good as the IAC. Considering I paid $200 each, I can't complain. I have since sold all three to other shooters that needed cheap '97s.

 

I now have a "real" '97 and it's great. To me, it's better than the reproductions.

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Just off of the top of my head:

 

There are Cimarron models (not sure who they import them from)

Norinco

IAC

and, of course, the originals

 

I am sure if I missed any some one will chime in.

 

And I agree with Phantom, give your local gun shops the support. The 97 is not such a rare bird that it can't be found localy

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Many, many years ago I remember hangin' out around the merry-go-round and the monkey bars before 1st grade. There was one kid who always seemed to have it in for this other boy. Yeah, the other boy was a little chunky and had glasses.....and this one bully-type kid let him have it every chance he got. Every single time we went out to the playground before school, the bully would have to home in on this kid and tell him what a good-for-nothing he was 'cause he was fat or wore glasses.

 

It was really neat to watch the bully get his nose broken when we were all in 8th grade by the four-eyed kid. I guess he'd finally had enough.

 

It's often funny, but I see some of the same behavior here on this board. It's like the 1st grade playground....all over again. I guess I keep hangin' out here cuz somebody's liable to get their nose broken....and I just wanna be around to see it. :rolleyes:

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Many, many years ago I remember hangin' out around the merry-go-round and the monkey bars before 1st grade. There was one kid who always seemed to have it in for this other boy. Yeah, the other boy was a little chunky and had glasses.....and this one bully-type kid let him have it every chance he got. Every single time we went out to the playground before school, the bully would have to home in on this kid and tell him what a good-for-nothing he was 'cause he was fat or wore glasses.

 

It was really neat to watch the bully get his nose broken when we were all in 8th grade by the four-eyed kid. I guess he'd finally had enough.

 

It's often funny, but I see some of the same behavior here on this board. It's like the 1st grade playground....all over again. I guess I keep hangin' out here cuz somebody's liable to get their nose broken....and I just wanna be around to see it. :rolleyes:

 

Yeah...then you get the guys that look to save a buck and then bitch about no local gunsmiths or shops.

 

Are those the same guys that got bullied when they were young????

 

Or you can be the new guy on the block and think you know it ALL.

 

Frankly, I get kinda tired of the "I went to Ableammo and save 20 dollars" and then you hear them bitch about the little gun shop owner that charges 60 bucks for a transfer...like the little guy is gunna make it on transfers.

 

:FlagAm:

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Yeah...then you get the guys that look to save a buck and then bitch about no local gunsmiths or shops.

 

Are those the same guys that got bullied when they were young????

 

Or you can be the new guy on the block and think you know it ALL.

 

Frankly, I get kinda tired of the "I went to Ableammo and save 20 dollars" and then you hear them bitch about the little gun shop owner that charges 60 bucks for a transfer...like the little guy is gunna make it on transfers.

 

:FlagAm:

 

 

Funny. I didn't specifically denote that it was your comment that my anecdote concerned, but you managed to assume so....all by yourself.

 

I don't think anyone has a problem with your proposal that we support our local gunsmiths and shops. I think it's all in the delivery.....and spelling.....and the number of paragraphs posted....etc....but I digress.

 

Let me very specific....I'm speaking to YOU as opposed to all of the other posters here....I'm making no accusations toward any other poster here.....I've tired of watching you bad-mouth, berate and belittle other posters. While you've never done so to me directly, I've tired of watching you do so to others. I've kept my mouth shut. I've hoped to see others speak up regarding your conduct. While I've kept my mouth shut to this point, I can do so no longer.

 

I don't care if you are the greatest shooter since Wild Bill Hickock himself. I don't care how many titles you've won or whether you're champion of the world. Your demeanor on this board, while I've been watching, shows nothing more than that bully on the playground in 1st grade.

 

I don't know Smithy....never met him. I doesn't matter though. Your way isn't the way, pard. Never was, and never will be.

 

Chick

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Smithy,

 

If you buy an IAC for Wild Bunch, buy one you can handle in person. Take some dummy rounds with you and make sure that they will stay in the magazine. I usually shoot a double and I occasionally train wreck with an '87, but I don't shoot the '97. I bought one because that's what my son wanted to shoot. I ended up shooting a Wild Bunch side match at an annual. I asked my boy if the '97 ran well, he said it ran great. Stage one, rack the slide for the first round, all the shells, except for the first one, come out the back of the magazine. Four misses on the first stage.

 

Second stage, at the loading table, the rounds won't stay in when I load. Another cowboy was kind enough to loan me his shotgun.

 

I am not a smith and I shoot them but don't work on them. I have had a couple of other cowboys tell me that they had similar problems with the IAC. In my boy's defense, he never shot Wild Bunch so it didn't occur to him that there might be a problem with loading the tube.

 

Some other pards may know more about this and whether or not it is a big problem or just my problem. I know a lot of people are shooting IAC 97's.

 

Boondock

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Funny. I didn't specifically denote that it was your comment that my anecdote concerned, but you managed to assume so....all by yourself.

 

I don't think anyone has a problem with your proposal that we support our local gunsmiths and shops. I think it's all in the delivery.....and spelling.....and the number of paragraphs posted....etc....but I digress.

 

Let me very specific....I'm speaking to YOU as opposed to all of the other posters here....I'm making no accusations toward any other poster here.....I've tired of watching you bad-mouth, berate and belittle other posters. While you've never done so to me directly, I've tired of watching you do so to others. I've kept my mouth shut. I've hoped to see others speak up regarding your conduct. While I've kept my mouth shut to this point, I can do so no longer.

 

I don't care if you are the greatest shooter since Wild Bill Hickock himself. I don't care how many titles you've won or whether you're champion of the world. Your demeanor on this board, while I've been watching, shows nothing more than that bully on the playground in 1st grade.

 

I don't know Smithy....never met him. I doesn't matter though. Your way isn't the way, pard. Never was, and never will be.

 

Chick

 

You're welcome to your opinion...

 

Oh, and you have no idea where I'm coming from.

 

Demeanor...wow...you can judge one's demeanor?

 

And one last thing - I'm not a critic of spelling nor grammer. Run on paragraphs are hard to read so I do mention that...on rare occasion.

 

But thanks for trying to set me straight...but as you could have probably guessed, I'm a lost cause.

 

Cheers Mr!

 

:FlagAm:

 

PS: Your alias should not have been allowed...it's very close to another pard's.

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Smithy, if you are looking for a '97 for Wild bunch it is a bit harder to get one that works well with 6 rounds in the magazine tube. For CAS you rarely use the magazine tube, but for WBAS it is a necessity to be competitive. The IAC guns over the years have had good and bad runs. Most of the other Chinese '97's are REALLY bad. So, I think the IAC's are the best of the lot. If you find a serial# starting with 8 or 9 it is pretty current production and works well. As for an original Winchester?? A good one is getting harder to find. The cartridge stops on the '97 have always been a weakness. Not a problem withCAS, but a big problem in WBAS. I don't know who can fix bad cartridge stops, but I am sure some gunsmiths can. I just got a NEW run IAC '97 trench gun from Coyote Cap for WBAS. It is awesome. Actually works better then my 3 hand picked and tuned by great gunsmiths original Winchesters. However, Cap did a good bit of work on it. It is not out of the box. There are VERY few of the new IAC's in the country. Getting one is difficult. I ordered this one last June. If you buy a cheap gun, you get a cheap gun. Some can be fixed and some can't. We spend a BUNCH of money on pistols and rifles and then look for a cheap shotgun. The shotgun wins the CAS match, the pistol looses it.

 

Support you local dealer and gunsmith !!!!

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Frankly, I get kinda tired of the "I went to Ableammo and save 20 dollars" and then you hear them bitch about the little gun shop owner that charges 60 bucks for a transfer...like the little guy is gunna make it on transfers.

 

To Phantom and others who have indicated that I'm basically a slug for "not patronizing my local dealer" in my quest for an 1897; I do indeed use my local dealer. The last three guns I have bought have all been from my local dealer! And if I do buy the dreaded Able's gun to supposedly stiff my local dealer out of sixty bucks, he charges me seventy five bucks just to receive the gun for me. He said that he would make his money one way or the other; Either on on the shelf mark up or the fees he charges to process orders like one from "Able's". So I'm not loosing any sleep over that one and neither is my dealer. Another thing is the fact that my dealer does not stock cowboy guns per se. He will occasionally get one or two in that would fit that description (usually from a trade). That of course forces me to look elsewhere for my shooters. I asked why he didn't stock that type of gun, and he said there just wasn't enough market for it. The cowboy guns that he had stocked in the past were dust collectors and he was better off buying a sure seller like a modern auto. So before you jump into the fray running your mouth again, you might wait a bit to see how things turn out. Because after all it may be just another instance where you're uninformed and full of s&!t. Smithy.

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To Phantom and others who have indicated that I'm basically a slug for "not patronizing my local dealer" in my quest for an 1897; I do indeed use my local dealer. The last three guns I have bought have all been from my local dealer! And if I do buy the dreaded Able's gun to supposedly stiff my local dealer out of sixty bucks, he charges me seventy five bucks just to receive the gun for me. He said that he would make his money one way or the other; Either on on the shelf mark up or the fees he charges to process orders like one from "Able's". So I'm not loosing any sleep over that one and neither is my dealer. Another thing is the fact that my dealer does not stock cowboy guns per se. He will occasionally get one or two in that would fit that description (usually from a trade). That of course forces me to look elsewhere for my shooters. I asked why he didn't stock that type of gun, and he said there just wasn't enough market for it. The cowboy guns that he had stocked in the past were dust collectors and he was better off buying a sure seller like a modern auto. So before you jump into the fray running your mouth again, you might wait a bit to see how things turn out. Because after all it may be just another instance where you're uninformed and full of s&!t. Smithy.

 

Ah...actually, most dealers don't stock every type of gun. That would be very expensive. You see, most manufacturers require that dealers purchase their guns through a distributor. So every dealer can pretty much get any gun in a matter of days.

 

So who care what a dealer has in stock. All they have to do is contact their distributor and like magic, you're guns at the dealers place in a couple of days.

 

Sorry that you're ignorant to the ways of the gun dealer.

 

Now...who exactly is uninformed????

 

Oh, and for California, what with all the added paperwork and gun storage requirements, 75 bucks ain't all that outta line.

 

:wacko:

 

But I do enjoy hearing about your quests...

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I am the purported reputed to be spelling Nazi around these here parts! As such, shame on you Happy Jack and Smithy for "looses" and "loosing". And after so much harping on it. I'm beginning to fear lose and losing are going the way of the dodo bird.

 

I have 12 original 97s, all of which have failed me and usually at the worst possible time. My fanciest, best and favorite broke down twice at the same regional. I have demoted the dirty dozen to safe queen status.

 

I have a late model IAC 97, two 93/97s and just pickedup an IAC trench gun. Rumor is that BATFE is gonna ban the IAC trench gun so if you want one better hop to it. I save the 97 and the trench for big WBAS matches and run the 2 93/97s at locals where no one cares about the SASS ban. By the way, Bad Hand, since you stoke the mag in WBAS the SASS stated reason for the ban holds no water for that game and should be rescinded posthaste for WB.

 

Smithy, stay away from any 97 made by Kuandian and imported by CAI (Century International Arms). The best option is an 09 prefix IAC. If you go with an original be mentally prepared to keep a gunsmith on retainer. He will certainly appreciate all the contributions to his kid's college fund and his retirement fund you will be making.

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I know many local dealers that are happy to do transfers as they don't have to tie up their funds in inventory. Ultimately they make close to the same amount per gun, especially if they borrow funds as many small (and large businesses) do. So don't feel like you're cheating the local business.

 

And Phantom don't feel as though you need to respond. unless you're trying for a new record of posts per day or something :rolleyes:

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No matter what you do, don't buy from a local dealer...just use them for the transfer.

 

That is if they're still around...

 

:wacko:

 

Phantom - I understand your position, and support my FFL/gun dealer whenever possible. When I ordered a 1911 R1, I did it thru him even though the wait times were way longer than if I'd bought off the internet and transferred thru him. As it turns out, before he got it in I had to cancel the order to pay medical bills. I buy local when I can, and am willing to pay a little more to support locals, but sometimes the local shops don't seem willing or able to get things in at prices that are anywhere in line with what can be had elsewhere.

 

Grizz

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Lone Dog, I can spell, but occasionally I don't proof read my posts. Besides, it is that damned AUTOMATIC spell check that is always changing words on my posts. It's amazing what those writing computer programs think they know. Lose, loose, I had to manually re-do lose TWICE. Damned computer!!!

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No matter what you do, don't buy from a local dealer...just use them for the transfer.

 

That is if they're still around...

 

:wacko:

That's correct !!!!I live half way between denver and abuquerque..this mean little border town will rip you off no matter how much business you give them....I buy 4000.00 worth of feed from the store down here and they still charge me 40.00 for a transfer!!!same goes for fuel ,concrete, plumbing,etc....RULE is if you spend more than 200.00 go to pueblo,the springs or up to denver.....Push the good ol boys out of business and say hello to LOWE"S and HOME DEPOT.......Tuco.

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Funny. I didn't specifically denote that it was your comment that my anecdote concerned, but you managed to assume so....all by yourself.

 

I don't think anyone has a problem with your proposal that we support our local gunsmiths and shops. I think it's all in the delivery.....and spelling.....and the number of paragraphs posted....etc....but I digress.

 

Let me very specific....I'm speaking to YOU as opposed to all of the other posters here....I'm making no accusations toward any other poster here.....I've tired of watching you bad-mouth, berate and belittle other posters. While you've never done so to me directly, I've tired of watching you do so to others. I've kept my mouth shut. I've hoped to see others speak up regarding your conduct. While I've kept my mouth shut to this point, I can do so no longer.

 

I don't care if you are the greatest shooter since Wild Bill Hickock himself. I don't care how many titles you've won or whether you're champion of the world. Your demeanor on this board, while I've been watching, shows nothing more than that bully on the playground in 1st grade.

 

I don't know Smithy....never met him. I doesn't matter though. Your way isn't the way, pard. Never was, and never will be.

 

Chick

Good going CHick!!!!!You've made my day!!!!!!I live down here by a gunsmithing college that claims to be one of the best.....after 550.00 spent there on gun work ...EVERY gun broke (4 total) .at a major match at founders ranch...all of them where reworked by known cas gunsmiths...So much for local rip off dealers..no body gives me free groceries..they jack the price up on poor people in this area.....Thanks again..Tuco.

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And everyone is perfect and NO ONE shops at Wal Mart........Love to hear it. Smithy.

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I am the purported reputed to be spelling Nazi around these here parts! As such, shame on you Happy Jack and Smithy for "looses" and "loosing". And after so much harping on it. I'm beginning to fear lose and losing are going the way of the dodo bird.

 

I have 12 original 97s, all of which have failed me and usually at the worst possible time. My fanciest, best and favorite broke down twice at the same regional. I have demoted the dirty dozen to safe queen status.

 

I have a late model IAC 97, two 93/97s and just pickedup an IAC trench gun. Rumor is that BATFE is gonna ban the IAC trench gun so if you want one better hop to it. I save the 97 and the trench for big WBAS matches and run the 2 93/97s at locals where no one cares about the SASS ban. By the way, Bad Hand, since you stoke the mag in WBAS the SASS stated reason for the ban holds no water for that game and should be rescinded posthaste for WB.

 

Smithy, stay away from any 97 made by Kuandian and imported by CAI (Century International Arms). The best option is an 09 prefix IAC. If you go with an original be mentally prepared to keep a gunsmith on retainer. He will certainly appreciate all the contributions to his kid's college fund and his retirement fund you will be making.

 

That was why I asked, since the WB stokes the shotgun at the LT what would be the rational to exclude the 93/97?

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There is no sane rationale for the ban even for CAS, but the "excuse" is moot for WB. The 93/97 should by rights be immediately approved for WB. I use my two for local CAS and WB matches. We took a vote and not one person was in favor of upholding the ban. We also voted to allow any main match rifle for WB with my vote the only one for sticking to the big bore only requirement.

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