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H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619

Adults need parental Permission to shoot SASS?

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While looking up something else, I found this odd little line in the Shooter's Handbook...

 

"Parental consent and supervision is required for all competitors under twenty-one years of

age."

 

 

This struck me as not only odd, but wrong.

 

Last time I checked, in this country you are an adult at age 18. You can get married, vote, serve in the military, enter into a legally binding contract and so on and so forth. But, to play our *game,* you have to have Mommy and Daddy's permission? This is not right!

 

What is the purpose of this rule?

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Maybe because noone can own a handgun under the age of 21? At the indoor range I work at part time we cannot let anyone under the age of 21 go back and shoot a handgun unless accompanied by an adult. They can go back and shoot a rifle or shotgun but not a handgun. That's just the way it is. Rye

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Shooter needs to be 21 to own, transport and use a handgun without a parent present

 

Wyatt

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Would this mean that young Marines can't take their pistols to Afghanistan?

 

 

 

 

(I know, I know - Military is exempt from the dumb laws)

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While looking up something else, I found this odd little line in the Shooter's Handbook...

 

"Parental consent and supervision is required for all competitors under twenty-one years of

age."

 

 

This struck me as not only odd, but wrong.

 

Last time I checked, in this country you are an adult at age 18. You can get married, vote, serve in the military, enter into a legally binding contract and so on and so forth. But, to play our *game,* you have to have Mommy and Daddy's permission? This is not right!

 

What is the purpose of this rule?

 

What's the "Purpose"?

 

Too piss you off.

 

Seems there's a lot of things that upset you about this game...

 

:FlagAm:

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Last time I checked, in this country you are an adult at age 18. You can get married, vote, serve in the military, enter into a legally binding contract and so on and so forth. But, to drink a beer you have to have Mommy and Daddy's permission? This is not right!

 

What is the purpose of this?

 

Fixed that for ya.

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Would this mean that young Marines can't take their pistols to Afghanistan?

 

 

 

 

(I know, I know - Military is exempt from the dumb laws)

 

It’s a strange country isn’t it? An 18 year old can fight and die for their country but can’t have a beer to celebrate their return if they survive

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Look up the law, my friend. In most states you cannot enter into a legal binding contract until you attain the age of 21. You cannot purchase alcoholic beverages until 21, because you are still considered a minor, and you cannot purchase a handgun or handgun ammunition until you are 21.

SASS is only conforming to the current laws in this country regarding the purchase/possession of a handgun and the purchase of handgun ammunition. If an incident did occur where an individual under the age of 21 were injured or killed, the parents would be the first to sue all involved in allowing their minor son or daughter to shoot on their premisis without the permission or presence of a parent.

It is just part of the current politically correct world that we live in and a rule made necessary by the litigious nature of today's society.

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Depending on your state laws, you can't purchase a handgun until age 21, but you may certainly be able to own one. Same with "handgun" ammo, you may be able to own/possess it, but you can't buy it until age 21.

 

I've got a BFR revolver in .45-70 with a .450 convertible cylinder, so are those two handgun ammo?

 

I've got a Marlin CBC .38 spl, and a Camp Carbine in .45 acp, so are those two rifle ammo?

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While looking up something else, I found this odd little line in the Shooter's Handbook...

 

"Parental consent and supervision is required for all competitors under twenty-one years of

age."

 

 

This struck me as not only odd, but wrong.

 

Last time I checked, in this country you are an adult at age 18. You can get married, vote, serve in the military, enter into a legally binding contract and so on and so forth. But, to play our *game,* you have to have Mommy and Daddy's permission? This is not right!

 

What is the purpose of this rule?

 

The law,

 

From the ATF's FAQ's

 

Q: Does a customer have to be a certain age to buy firearms or ammunition from a licensee?

 

Yes. Under the GCA, long guns and long gun ammunition may be sold only to persons 18 years of age or older. Sales of handguns and ammunition for handguns are limited to persons 21 years of age and older. Although some State and local ordinances have lower age requirements, dealers are bound by the minimum age requirements established by the GCA. If State law or local ordinances establish a higher minimum age, the dealer must observe the higher age requirement.

 

[18 U.S.C. 922(B)(1), 27 CFR 478.99(B)]

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Unfortunately, SASS has a number of rules that mimic or reiterate US law.

Not really necessary.

Minimum age due to handgun limits plus barrel lengths for rifles and shotguns are the 3 rules that come to mind.

(See page 4 of the shooters handbook.)

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SASS has to adhere to the same laws we do and there is a left over from the Clinton era called the "Youth Handgun Safety Act" placing the onus on the parents for allowing their kids to handle handguns. Read the law here: http://www.atf.gov/publications/download/i/atf-i-5300-2.pdf

 

SASS is just following the law. (The alternative is 10 years in jail).

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The law,

 

From the ATF's FAQ's

 

Q: Does a customer have to be a certain age to buy firearms or ammunition from a licensee?

 

Yes. Under the GCA, long guns and long gun ammunition may be sold only to persons 18 years of age or older. Sales of handguns and ammunition for handguns are limited to persons 21 years of age and older. Although some State and local ordinances have lower age requirements, dealers are bound by the minimum age requirements established by the GCA. If State law or local ordinances establish a higher minimum age, the dealer must observe the higher age requirement.

 

[18 U.S.C. 922(B)(1), 27 CFR 478.99(B)]

 

Next line down :

 

 

Q: May a licensee sell interchangeable ammunition such as .22 cal. rimfire to a person less than 21 years old?

Yes, provided the buyer is 18 years of age or older, and the dealer is satisfied that it is for use in a rifle. If the ammunition is intended for use in a handgun, the 21-year-old minimum age requirement is applicable.

 

[18 U.S.C. 922(B)(1), 27 CFR 478.99(B)]

 

Sometimes you need to look at the whole picture. :D

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Would an Aunt or Uncle or even older sibling be considered a legal guardian?

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Would an Aunt or Uncle or even older sibling be considered a legal guardian?

 

Not in the eyes of the law. Guardianship is a specific documented relationship between a minor and a person of majority age.

 

In the eyes of a SASS club might be something different. If an uncle took his nephew to the range and assumed responsibility for him, it would probably be accepted.

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If the law says that the Uncle is not the boy's legal guardian, then the club sticks it's neck out if they let him shoot. That's putting your club in danger if something happens.

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I'll tell ya who "isn't right"....all those 18-20 year old voters who stand for this treatment :lol:

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When I got back from Vietnam, we went to Seatac airport to fly out. Luckily, my friend didn't get carded at the airport bar. He was a much decorated Dust Off crew chief and under 21.

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In the state of Michigan you may obtain a purchase permit and purchase a handgun at the age of 18, but you must buy it from a private individual and not from a FFL. I don't understand it but I bought my very first Vaquero the summer between my jr. and sr. year of high school. Use to go shoot it before going to the weight room to work out for football.

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Here in Indiana,you can get a concealed carry permit at 18,and legally posses a handgun,you just can't go buy one from a gun shop.

To pose another question related to the first ,if a 18 year old ,with a permit ,came to a shoot ,would he be prohibited from shooting without parental consent?

 

I think he would or should be allowed,because the state has given consent by issuing the permit.

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Here in Indiana,you can get a concealed carry permit at 18,and legally posses a handgun,you just can't go buy one from a gun shop.

To pose another question related to the first ,if a 18 year old ,with a permit ,came to a shoot ,would he be prohibited from shooting without parental consent?

 

I think he would or should ,because the state has given consent by issuing the permit.

 

Same here in Texas. A parent, grandparent or legal guardian may purchase a handgun and give it to a teenager as a gift. At most clubs here in Texas he would be allowed to shoot. Our club requires written consent signed by a parent or legal guardian of any shooter under age 18.

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I guess several clubs here in WA are in trouble then, because a granddad brings his grandson to shoot at several matches, and an aunt/uncle bring their two nieces to shoot at the same matches. I think 'Adult Permission' is adequate. I will bring this up at the next Evergreen board meeting.

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Young couple show up at a shoot with their 2 kids in tow and the correct guns, ammo, leather, & dress. Is there any club, including SASS HQ, that would ask for ID to prove they are 21 or older or have their parents' persmissions (both sets of parents)? I really don't think so.

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I guess several clubs here in WA are in trouble then, because a granddad brings his grandson to shoot at several matches, and an aunt/uncle bring their two nieces to shoot at the same matches. I think 'Adult Permission' is adequate. I will bring this up at the next Evergreen board meeting.

 

The Grandad in question is the legal guardian of the young man Okie.

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The Grandad in question is the legal guardian of the young man Okie.

 

Doc, I don't think we are referring to the same people. I'm not talking about Buckshot, rather Cat Nap. Nevertheless, I am going to bring it up to the board this month about changing our Hold Harmless sign-in sheet to 'Responsible Adult' instead of 'Parental Permission' which makes more sense to me.

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I always have signed parental permission in the gun cart when a grandkid shoots with me, specific permission about the use of firearms and handguns, including a waiver of liability. With written permission in the kid's possession, there is no chance for a misinterpretation of the law by anyone, no problem with being under 17, over 18, under 21. Maybe I'm just overly cautious, but why spoil a good party by arguing the finer points of the law with LE?

 

Here's what the GCA sez about kids and handguns:

 

 

YOUTH SAFETY ACT – FEDERAL LAW

 

The Gun Control Act of 1968, 18 U.S.C.

 

Chapter 44, provides in pertinent part as

follows:

 

 

18 U.S.C. 922(x)

(x) (1) It shall be unlawful for a person to sell, deliver, or otherwise transfer to a person who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe is a juvenile—

 

(A) a handgun; or

 

(B) ammunition that is suitable for use only in a handgun.

 

(2) It shall be unlawful for any person who is a juvenile to knowingly possess—

 

(A) a handgun; or

 

(B) ammunition that is suitable for use only in a handgun.

 

(3) This subsection does not apply to—

 

(A) a temporary transfer of a handgun or ammunition to a juvenile or to the possession or use of a handgun or ammunition by a juvenile if the handgun and ammunition are possessed and used by the juvenile-

 

(i) in the course of employment, in the course of ranching or farming related to activities at the residence of the juvenile (or on property used for ranching or farming at which the juvenile, with the permission of the property owner or lessee, is performing activities related to the operation of the farm or ranch), target practice, hunting, or a course of instruction in the safe and lawful use of a handgun;

 

(ii) with the prior written consent of the juvenile's parent or guardian who is not prohibited by Federal, State, or local law from possessing a firearm, except—

 

(I) during transportation by the juvenile of an unloaded handgun in a locked container directly from the place of transfer to a place at which an activity described in clause (i) is to take place and transportation by the juvenile of that handgun, unloaded and in a locked container directly from the place at which such an activity took place to the transferor; or

 

(II) with respect to ranching or farming activities as described in clause (i), a juvenile may possess and use a handgun or ammunition with the prior written approval of the juvenile's parent or legal guardian and at the direction of an adult who is not prohibited by Federal, State or local law from possessing a firearm;

 

(iii) the juvenile has the prior written consent in the juvenile's possession at all times when a handgun is in the possession of the juvenile; and

 

(iv) in accordance with State and local law;

 

(B) a juvenile who is a member of the Armed Forces of the United States or the National Guard who possesses or is armed with a handgun in the line of duty;

 

© a transfer by inheritance of title (but not possession) of a handgun or ammunition to a juvenile; or

 

(D) the possession of a handgun or ammunition by a juvenile taken in defense of the juvenile or other persons against an intruder into the residence of the juvenile or a residence in which the juvenile is an invited guest.

 

(4) A handgun or ammunition, the possession of which is transferred to a juvenile in circumstances in which the transferor is not in violation of this subsection shall not be subject to permanent confiscation by the Government if its possession by the juvenile subsequently becomes unlawful because of the conduct of the juvenile, but shall be returned to the lawful owner when such handgun or ammunition is no longer required by the Government for the purposes of investigation or prosecution.

 

(5) For purposes of this subsection, the term

 

"juvenile" means a person who is less than 18 years of age.

 

(6) (A) In a prosecution of a violation of this subsection, the court shall require the presence of a juvenile defendant's parent or legal guardian at all proceedings.

 

(B) The court may use the contempt power to enforce subparagraph (A).

 

© The court may excuse attendance of a parent or legal guardian of a juvenile defendant at a proceeding in a prosecution of a violation of this subsection for good cause shown.

 

P.S. I didn't put the emoticons in this quote from the GCA. Whatever paragraph letter/number was in there caused the emoticons.

 

:rolleyes::FlagAm::rolleyes:

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