This may be a don't ask don't tell kind of thing...

[Lone Dog, SASS #20401]

Yes, Griffster, absurd is the word. To the point of incredulousness. The God given Second Amendment affirmed right to self defense is absolutely absolute. It cannot be abridged or infringed ANYwhere in the good ole USA. The somewhat hoplophobic amongst our ranks have revealed themselves on many threads not just this one. To feel that there is anywhere The Right is inappropriate or should be cancelled out for any length of time because there is some venue involved or some event is taking place is the kind of fuzzy-headed thinking the antis hope spreads among our ranks. It is wrong-headed and I abhor it. It's called Liberty. Understand that. Either you support Liberty or you are submitting to the evil forces of collectivism which infest this planet and are always working to reign supreme. Liberty is my Goddess and I am always in Her service. If I die with my boots on it will be in defense of Liberty. I hope to die in bed decades hence tho.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Shot by a jealous husband.

[Adirondack Jack, SASS #53440]

So far this is the only response I've seen that really makes sense to me. However, I may still think my host is a fool.

 

BTW,if I can go off on a slight tanget here... should the SHTF at a match, I for one, won't be standing there grabbing or loading a gun. The first thing I'm gonna do is get the h*ll out of the way and behind some cover. I'm not gonna stand up and fight, I'm gonna run, hide and shoot back from some serious cover, if at all possible. Call me a coward, but I plan on going home in one piece after any fracas. As the man said, "If you find yourself in a fair fight you're doing it wrong."

 

Sorry, one more thing, I don't buy any arguement that starts with, "It's never happened yet..." or "Show me where _____ ever happened."

Well, a space shuttle never blew up before Challenger and nobody ever killed nobody until Cain killed Able. Ain't nuthin' ever happened until the first time. That's just one of my pet peeves.

 

Angus (think I'm done with this here thread) McPherson

 

 

You get the point. It is not necessary to agree with your host, but if you endeavor to accept his invitation to be his guest, honor his rules or decline the invitation.

 

Once upon a time my ole man worked for a fellow who was an orthodox Jew. Well, the man's mother died, and my dad went to the service at the nearby temple. Upon arrival the man at the door explained that all men entering had to cover their heads, and offered a loaner Yarmukla (sp?). My ole man got huffy, said he wasn't a Jew, and when told ALL men had to wear cover, he left.

 

In telling this story Dad felt by wearing the Jewish hat that he would have been a hypocrite. Finally, many years later, after hearing this story several times, I lost it. "No dad, by entering the building NOT wearing the hat you disrespect your host, and to the extent the man you went there for knew it, you disrespected him too." There is a word for that kinda behavior, (and it isn't "hypocrite"), but let's not go there.

[Tarheel Rifleman, SASS # 23477]

So you walk up to the unloading table and the officer there says have you unloaded all your guns (thinking I have this 380 auto loaded in my back pocket), do you lie to him or her or do you just take your penalties for leaving the unloading table with a loaded gun and go home? A cold range is a cold range is a cold range is a cold range.

Agree. It's a condition of our liability insurance coverage.

[Buffalo Dick, SASS #12880]

As others have said, I carry to and from the range and lock my carry gun in the car during the match.

[Brother King, SASS #69031]

Yes, Griffster, absurd is the word. To the point of incredulousness. The God given Second Amendment affirmed right to self defense is absolutely absolute. It cannot be abridged or infringed ANYwhere in the good ole USA. The somewhat hoplophobic amongst our ranks have revealed themselves on many threads not just this one. To feel that there is anywhere The Right is inappropriate or should be cancelled out for any length of time because there is some venue involved or some event is taking place is the kind of fuzzy-headed thinking the antis hope spreads among our ranks. It is wrong-headed and I abhor it. It's called Liberty. Understand that. Either you support Liberty or you are submitting to the evil forces of collectivism which infest this planet and are always working to reign supreme. Liberty is my Goddess and I am always in Her service. If I die with my boots on it will be in defense of Liberty. I hope to die in bed decades hence

shot by a jealous husband.

What a patent bucket of crap. You can have as many guns as you want on your cart. Heck, you can have two carts. But, that's not good enough for you and you're calling the rest of us names . BRILLIANT! Talk about fuzzy-headed thinkin'... did you mean to put a on that rant?

 

You'd rather risk something happening that voids the insured's liablility policy for everyone else at the club because 12,14,18 guns and 1000 rounds of bullets/ shotshells, calibers, etc. isn't enough for the rest of us shooters to prove to you that we all believe in the 2nd Amendment? Just what part of Texas teaches a boy those kind of manners?

 

You understand nothing but your own self-serving, self- righteous drivel at the expense of the rest of us all. There's a higher standard, it's called respect; Re-read AJ's post. Yes, there's a word for it.

[Utah Bob #35998]

It appears to me that some of you are arguing on the first floor and some are arguing up on the second floor.

[Boon Doggle]

Your's are not the only "Rights" involved here.

 

If you cannot respect the “Rights” of the property owner, (Remember, you are a guest.) nor do you trust the people that you have chosen to shoot with, maybe you need to find another place to shoot.

[Texas Man]

I carry 24-7-365 unless I am in a jail, court room and where the right sign is posted and thats debatable. Neither You nor I know when or where trouble may happen and Texas Man does not desire to be unarmed and waiting for someone else to come to His Help.

The last time I renewed My CCP we had an insistent happen right on the firing line. There was this younger dude about 25 that was dressed as a Green Beret in combat boots and wearing a beret and armed with a Berreta Military 9 m/m. When the firing moved back I think 10 or 12 yards from the target the couple on my right were older ranch folks and had been around guns all their life and his wife was putting her shots in the right place as he was as well and to my left was an older woman who had never shot a gun before and she had a nice 380 and was doing damn good with it. When the instuctors came down the line checking everones target and conmented on how well the two women had done the young dude to the right of the ranch couple went off cussing and yelling that no g--D--- woman was going to outshoot him [He had not done so good] and to everones surprise he threw his Bettera 9 m/m on the grond in front of his feet and screaming started to jump up and down on it cussing and acting the fool as everone looked on in shock. The Two instuctors were on him in an instance taking hold of his hands and draging his a-- of the firing line and down the road telling him to get off the proptery and he could pick his gun up at the sheriffs office.

Later in class after we got back, One of the ladies lifted her hand up and said she was sorry she had not intended to offend the young man and the instuctor told her she had done nothing wrong and about that time an older man lifted his hand and the instuctor ask him what he had to say and he said he did not want to affend anyone either but he was curious why the ladies had out shot most of the men himself. The instuctor told him they did it because they knew they did not know anything about guns and that they listened to instructions as ever man that came thur the door already knew more than anyone else in the room and needed no advise at all from anyone. I about fell out of my chair laughting.

 

One thing I will never forget was when I was taking basic training at Fort Hood, Texas many years ago on a hot day in July The day before I was on the firing line shooting the old M-1 Garand some dude lost it on the line and turned and told the man next to him "Do you beleive I can blow his brains out?" As he aimed his M-1 at the range officer in the tower and fired a 30-06 bullet throught his head.

 

The CCP in Texas requires you to keep your gun concealed and people who know you have no problem with it and those who dont dont know anyway. Being around CCP is not problem at all for me,,,I dont ever think about it because I concider everone to be armed anyway and in Texas Most ARE. No big deal.

Texas Man

[Quick Will Lee]

With some guy walking in to a Detroit police station and opening fire this past week it will probably be a lot harder to do the whole "suicide by cop" thing. It would seem like a logical next step for the deranged to assume you could get the same results at the local gun club. Wouldn't they be surprised to find out how many are unarmed.

 

Most of the shoots I've been too the posse is far from their carts and all watching the shooter.

 

I can understand not walking around with short stroked, slicked up, lightly spring, safties removed guns. But something designed for CC?

 

I

[Brother King, SASS #69031]

for cryin' creeps sake, man... you've got 3 -4 people with 4 guns each at the loading tables!

[Danite SASS #27034]

Huh. Some are for it and some are against it. Who would have thunk it?????

[Tell Sackett SASS 18436]

So what you are saying is you totally disregard cold range rules at SASS matches. I won't judge you as only you know how many enemies you have made and when they might show up but I can't help but wonder what other rules you ignore because it is too inconvenient?

 

I never said I carry at a shooting match. I carry enough stuff there as it is.I carry everywhere it is legal for me to do so. If I felt the need to,I would.In Texas if they don't want me carrying concealed all they have to do is put up the proper sign and I won't. I'll ignore ANY rule that might cost me or my loved ones our life!

[Assassin]

The OP stated do you carry or should you carry concealed at a CAS match, answer is No. Cas match, leave it in the secured vehicle. If one feels the need to carry concealed at a CAS match just where are you going to conceal the dang thing and have it readily available; tucked in your boot, under the hat, in the waistband under your gunbelt, the typical concealed carry rig will not work when wearing all your gear anyhow. I can load a few rounds in my rifle, pistol, or S/G while seeking cover behind Grizzly Dave or Brother King. I don't feel threatened or insecure enough to have to carry at a CAS match, Walmart is a different story.

 

Louisiana Lightnin'

[Doc Coles SASS 1188]

Doc if someone like your guy had warning bells going off in my head I'd talk with the MD and let them know of your concerns, heck I've done it over shooters I felt were unsafe to be around.

 

 

 

Sorry to say, "that guy is weird" or "I get a bad vibe from that guy" are not going to get you far. He never did anything that would have justified his removal from a match, but as I said, several people I knew were very concerned about him. It was a very sad affair all around.

[Seldom Seen #16162]

Yes, Griffster, absurd is the word. To the point of incredulousness. The God given Second Amendment affirmed right to self defense is absolutely absolute. It cannot be abridged or infringed ANYwhere in the good ole USA. The somewhat hoplophobic amongst our ranks have revealed themselves on many threads not just this one. To feel that there is anywhere The Right is inappropriate or should be cancelled out for any length of time because there is some venue involved or some event is taking place is the kind of fuzzy-headed thinking the antis hope spreads among our ranks. It is wrong-headed and I abhor it. It's called Liberty. Understand that. Either you support Liberty or you are submitting to the evil forces of collectivism which infest this planet and are always working to reign supreme. Liberty is my Goddess and I am always in Her service. If I die with my boots on it will be in defense of Liberty. I hope to die in bed decades hence tho.

 

 

 

 

 

It appears to me that some of you are arguing on the first floor and some are arguing up on the second floor

 

 

 

Actually Utah some haven't even made it out of the basement yet.

[Lone Dog, SASS #20401]

Dang, BK and SS IF you had read my earlier post I SAID I leave it in the car at a CAS match. As far as calling people names I stand by the closet hoplophobe term. It is not so much an aspersion as an observation. It's sad but true.

 

I know a Vietnam veteran who makes his living as a fishing guide and lives outdoors and goes hunting. He has stated several times that he doesn't feel anyone needs an AK47. Of course he means the Chinese 56 and various eastern European semi-auto copies of that so greatly demonized icon of guns. He doesn't get it. Some here don't either. The 2nd Amendment ain't about duck huntin'. The Right is and always has been absolute. As I said I leave it in the car at a CAS match but I got NO problem with anyone with a snub in their boot or a 380 in the pocket.

 

To paraphrase ole George Washington "guns stand second in importance only to the Constitution itself, they are Freedom's liberty teeth..."

 

I am quite comfortable here in the basement with ole George, lady Liberty herself, and my share of teeth.

[Fargo Bill, SASS #4942]

At my home club we have a cold range as well, but our State CCW is an exception to that. Seems kinda silly to me to restrict carry at a gun club or range. Folks do it and will continue to do so.

 

Duece, do you know if Elmer Keith was sponsored by Bill Ruger?

[Grizzly Dave]

Well, that was a bigger can of worms than I really meant to open! Thanks for all the replies though.

 

Just for the record I respect the wishes of the ranges I shoot at that require a cold range, just the same as I expect folks to respect my request that they not smoke in my house.

 

Grizz

[Lone Dog, SASS #20401]

Yeah, Grizz ya sho nuff got us stirred up. That's ok us reglar denizens love a lively debate almost as much as we love shootin' cowboy.

 

Heck, I don't even smoke in my own house. What's fer supper?

[Jabez Cowboy,SASS # 50129]

Maybe someone should Carry a .380 as some SASS loads woun't penetrate a cardboard "Backer" with a piece of #20 paper glued to the front .....

 

This was seen and Wittnessed at a SASS regional shoot a few years back 5 .38 caliber bullets caught between the paper and the cardboard,,,,, at the extreem distance of 4 Yards .... Wouldn't want to count on that Pards loads to defend me against an angry Mouse ....

 

Flame Away !!!

 

Better hope one of the "In it for the FUN guys" can get loaded ,,,,,,,, maybe one that shoots .45s as they were meant to be loaded .....

 

Grizz ,,,,,, What's fer supper ??? Eh!

 

 

 

Jabez Cowboy

[Blastmaster]

Maybe someone should Carry a .380 as some SASS loads woun't penetrate a cardboard "Backer" with a piece of #20 paper glued to the front .....

 

This was seen and Wittnessed at a SASS regional shoot a few years back 5 .38 caliber bullets caught between the paper and the cardboard,,,,, at the extreem distance of 4 Yards .... Wouldn't want to count on that Pards loads to defend me against an angry Mouse ....

 

Flame Away !!!

 

Better hope one of the "In it for the FUN guys" can get loaded ,,,,,,,, maybe one that shoots .45s as they were meant to be loaded .....

 

Grizz ,,,,,, What's fer supper ??? Eh!

 

 

 

Jabez Cowboy

 

Drinking again Jabez?

 

No, I am not "LOADED".

 

I guess you did not learn anything after your last rant.

 

I've heard the same BS from owners that shoot the big boys, (like the 500S&W) when talking to anyone that shoots something else... like your 45.

 

When you say 45's, what comes to your mind first? 45 spit wads

[Stump Water]

What I find amusing is those that are vehement about their "right" to carry at a venue that does not allow loaded carry (most CAS matches), proclaiming that "concealed is concealed" and/or that "nobody's going to know". Then, in the next bloody sentence, say, "Except in post offices, banks or where there's a sign."

[Stump Water]

@ Jabez

 

As a very good friend that's often chided about his 'light loads' says, "Walk out ten yards and turn around."

 

Yeah... I didn't think so.

[Gold Canyon Kid #43974]

Maybe someone should Carry a .380 as some SASS loads woun't penetrate a cardboard "Backer" with a piece of #20 paper glued to the front .....

 

This was seen and Wittnessed at a SASS regional shoot a few years back 5 .38 caliber bullets caught between the paper and the cardboard,,,,, at the extreem distance of 4 Yards .... Wouldn't want to count on that Pards loads to defend me against an angry Mouse ....

 

Flame Away !!!

 

Better hope one of the "In it for the FUN guys" can get loaded ,,,,,,,, maybe one that shoots .45s as they were meant to be loaded .....

 

Grizz ,,,,,, What's fer supper ??? Eh!

 

 

 

Jabez Cowboy

At least some posters are predictable on what they will post, no matter the subject.

[Capt. James H. Callahan]

+1

 

Let's see here:

2 Rugers carried in a gunbelt with ammo in cartriage loops- Check

1 12 gauge coach gun on gun cart, loading table, or in my hands- Check

1 '73 on gun cart, loading table, or in my hands- Check

30-50 well armed pards that know how to shoot fast- Check

 

What exactly would be the purpose of having a .380 in your pocket?

 

I guess that's pretty much the way I look at it. I have a license but never even thought of carrying at a match. On the other hand I wouldn't have a conniption if I knew some other duly licensed or LEO pard was packing concealed.

 

JHC

[Deuce Stevens SASS#55996]

Duece, do you know if Elmer Keith was sponsored by Bill Ruger?

 

Couldn't tell ya. But Mr.Keith would not have endorsed something that he didn't believe in, nor would he say something if he did not believe it to be so. So what's your point?

[Black Angus McPherson]

It appears to me that some of you are arguing on the first floor and some are arguing up on the second floor.

 

Now that's funny! I ain't sure why, but it's funny. Now I've got to go find the stairs to see if they go up or down so I can figure out which floor I'm on.

 

Angus

[Bart Solo]

The clubs where I shoot are cold ranges. As far as I know everybody leaves his or her CCW gun in their locked vehicle. If memory serves SASS rules require any shooter to show all of their firearms at the loading and unloading tables. All fire arms coming to the loading table have to be unloaded, and all guns leaving the unloading table have to be unloaded. That includes guns carried that are not main match guns.

 

I might be wrong, but that is what I remember from the rule book.

[Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217]

Hi Folks,

 

Disclaimers: I am blond. I am not, nor was I, a LEO. I do not have a CCP.

 

So, I wonder how range rules that do not allow concealed carry reconcile with the Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act.

 

I read that there are two exceptions to the LEOSA, which are: "However, there are two types of state laws that are not overridden by the federal law, these being "the laws of any State that (1) permit private persons or entities to prohibit or restrict the possession of concealed firearms on their property; or (2) prohibit or restrict the possession of firearms on any State or local government property, installation, building, base, or park." This does not mean that LEOSA-qualified persons are prohibited from carrying concealed firearms in such areas, but only that they must obey whatever state laws apply on those two points. They are free to disregard all other state and local laws that govern the carrying of concealed firearms."

 

So, IIUC, unless state law prohibits CC on a range, a LEO may CC despite the range rule.

 

Can anyone reconcile this with all of the preceding comments that say/imply one should not CC if it is contrary to the range rule? I understand the "etiquette argument."

 

Regards,

 

Allie Mo

[Bart Solo]

I just went back and checked the SASS rules. The directions concerning the loading and unloading table requirements are not limited to the main match guns. Instead they refer to all firearms. That would seem to include any firearm whether CCW or not. Again I might be wrong. In my state, all state run ranges are cold. No loaded concealed firearms permitted.

[Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217]

I just went back and checked the SASS rules. The directions concerning the loading and unloading table requirements are not limited to the main match guns. Instead they refer to all firearms. That would seem to include any firearm whether CCW or not. Again I might be wrong. In my state, all state run ranges are cold. No loaded concealed firearms permitted.

Hi Bart,

 

I don't know if you are answering me or not.

 

However, it seems that unless the state law specifically allows SASS or the range to restrict possession of a concealed, loaded gun, LEOs can disregard the SASS rule. No?

 

LEOS what do you think?

 

Regards,

 

Allie Mo

[Buck D. Law, SASS #62183]

Personally, I could get ammo out of my belt quicker than I could think about getting a concealed gun from anywhere. I hate it when I forget to take my truck keys out and put them in the gun cart. If you ever see me stripping on the range, I'm trying to find my keys.

[Blue Steel Duke]

Hi Folks,

 

Disclaimers: I am blond. I am not, nor was I, a LEO. I do not have a CCP.

 

So, I wonder how range rules that do not allow concealed carry reconcile with the Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act.

 

I read that there are two exceptions to the LEOSA, which are: "However, there are two types of state laws that are not overridden by the federal law, these being "the laws of any State that (1) permit private persons or entities to prohibit or restrict the possession of concealed firearms on their property; or (2) prohibit or restrict the possession of firearms on any State or local government property, installation, building, base, or park." This does not mean that LEOSA-qualified persons are prohibited from carrying concealed firearms in such areas, but only that they must obey whatever state laws apply on those two points. They are free to disregard all other state and local laws that govern the carrying of concealed firearms."

 

So, IIUC, unless state law prohibits CC on a range, a LEO may CC despite the range rule.

 

Can anyone reconcile this with all of the preceding comments that say/imply one should not CC if it is contrary to the range rule? I understand the "etiquette argument."

 

Regards,

 

Allie Mo

Miss Allie,

 

I touched on this subject with my post, but LEO's must honor the requests of private property owners when "Off Duty", and this is often a conflict with the Officers that have department regulations that mandate off duty officers be armed. My department had that very rule and the only exception was if I was consuming alcohol. Pacer Stadium here in Indy has an IDIOTIC policy that prevents off duty Officers from being armed, so many choose not to attend.......great idea for a struggling team with low ticket sales.

 

BSD

[Bart Solo]

What states don't permit private property owners to prohibit CCW (excepting on duty LEO)?

 

In any event, if you are going to shoot at a SASS match, you are violating SASS rules if you carry a loaded CCW to and from the line, whether you are in compliance with Federal law or not.

[Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217]

What states don't permit private property owners to prohibit CCW?

 

In any event, if you are going to shoot at a SASS match, you are violating SASS rules if you carry a loaded CCW to and from the line, whether you are in compliance with Federal law or not.

Bart,

 

According to the Federal Law the state must specify in law or code that private parties can prohibit LEOs from CC. Your asking a question is not an answer. So, I ask, what states do that?

 

Range rules can trump SASS rules. So, I don't understand why a Federal law could not also trump SASS rules. For example, at some ranges a round over the berm is a MDQ, at some ranges you cannot place a shell in the SG before stopping or incur a SDQ... IIUC this Federal law is to ensure the safety of a LEO and as such would also trump SASS rules.

 

Duke, no one would question a uniformed LEO at a SASS match or stadium with a loaded gun. So, I would think the law is referring to off duty officers. Also, unless a State law says a LEO must not CC at Pacer stadium or private parties can make rules regarding when LEOs may CC, it seems to me, according to Federal Law "They are free to disregard all other state and local laws that govern the carrying of concealed firearms."

 

Regards,

 

Allie Mo