Shooting Bull Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 I don't care one way or the other. A monthly match is just practice for me. This is exactly why I LIKE the idea. At bigger matches I get myself prepared by pouring over the stages the night before and planning the transitions I'll need to make to shoot the stages well. Being able to do that at a monthly match would be great practice for bigger matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smithy Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 Printed when you pay your range fees would be cool as well (maybe better). Like said before, that way you could reference it throughout the day. In answer to another's query, I not only hear the instructions, but I ask that they are repeated by the RO and later by others and look over others shoulders to see how they are shooting it and still ask just before I shoot the stage so if I had a pocket copy or an on line copy to review that would be great! Smithy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widder, SASS #59054 Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 Howdy Creeker. Personally, it don't matter to me. Even at the bigger matches I attend, I don't even read the scenerios and could care less about them until I'm at the stage. Do I think prior knowledge of stages can help someone?.....not really Do I think prior practice of a stage can help someone?.....no more or less than any type of practice time would. I think it was Stan who mentioned something about those train derailments. I agree. You can practice those Nevada sweeps all day long for weeks and feel like you have the bull by the horns on that scenerio but when the timer goes 'Beep', you'll find yourself talking to yourself and asking: 'why in the world did I do that' after you've run your train off the track. Don't ask how I know..... ..........Widder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red River Ray SASS#33254 Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 I don't read stages at all, they'll tell ye tha way they want is shot right before ya posse starts shooting it. I don't see anything wrong wid postin em however as it might help someone. RRR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Mike SASS #38824 Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 Personally could care less about seeing the stages before hand - even for the larger matches. I find the more time I spend looking and thinking about a stage the more I try to refine the process - then the timer goes off and I have this convoluted plan to attempt. I find spending my time on just fundamentals and refining my generic skills pays far better results. Everyone's mileage will probably vary on this one - just depends on how each person understands and retains information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheyenne Culpepper 32827 Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 seeuns how I kin P eethur way, dunt really mattur much...tho I du l luk em ovur iffn I haz em... Cheyenne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fingers McGee Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 I don't usually study the match booklet before a major match, so it make not a whit to me one way ot the other. Besides, I write all the stages for the local club and still manage to screw them up. Fingers (Show Me MO smoke) McGee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twelve mile REB Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 I practice and I know that’s really unfair. I take Advil for my arthritis so I don’t drop my guns as often, totally unfair. I wear corrective lenses while I shoot, I know, I know, absolutely despicable. My cart sports an umbrella to keep me cool in the summer and dry in the winter, heinous behavior. I wish I had more time to sit under it but I spend most of my time picking up brass, counting or running the timer. Those folks that ask “now what do I do” often find the shade handy however so I’m glad to provide it. Yes, to help the Advil I’ll put those little heat packs in my gloves in the winter and drink lots of water in the summer, scandalous. Please don’t tell my wife but I engage in another deviant behavior, anytime a course of fire is available I like to have it. I read it and if there is a funny sweep it’s not a surprise or if I have to reload my rifle or my pistol I can bring my slide. Now while it’s true I’m likely to figure that funny sweep out I have a character flaw that makes me show everyone what I’ve found. Why being the rotten human being that I am I’ll point out any errors that might lurk in the match description as well. Like I said I practice, I don’t have my own range but I put in a lot of hours volunteering my time at the local range so others can shoot. That makes me pretty underhanded because they let me practice in an unused bay. I had to buy my own targets and set them up and take them down but a sidewinder like me will do that. I’m such a low life that thirty years ago while shooting other sports that print the courses in advance I discovered that practicing that print course is more likely to hurt than to help. Why, because the targets will be a little different, size, shape, distance and placement. Its handy to know what you will be required to do not essential but handy. So go ahead and worry about what advantage someone, whoever that someone is, has but print the course of fire. It makes the match run smoother and easier and us unfair, despicable, heinous, scandalous, deviants that read the course of fire will continue to assist those poor souls that find themselves lost and unable to understand just what’s happening. Of course I understand that no one on the wire falls into that catagory. Semper FI 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rio Brazos Kid Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 Unfair advantage HUH???? You got to be kidding me. Please say you don't believe that................... Practicing anything except basic fundamentals before a match isn't going to help you in the first place. Secondly, untill you actually see the exact placing of the targets and observe any obstructions that may be placed where you have to shoot around them, you really don't have a clue as just how to stand, and just how you want to shoot the stage in most cases anyway. I like to print off a copy and keep them in my cart. Then just prior to shooting the stage, I can look the scenario over and memorize the sequence of fire and the starting lines. Sometimes just listening to the reading of the stage sequence is a bit confusing, and having it to read for yourself helps you fully understand the stage. I'm glad that i'm not paranoid enough to believe that seeing the scenario's ahead of time has any advantage at all. Different strokes for different folks, I guess. RBK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder SASS #13056 Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 Great post, Bad Hombre! Some have to know what the stages are early. In truth, just posting them early is not a great advantage without knowing the targets and their exact placement. I've shot stages that were used a different clubs and the targets and placement made them seem like completely different stages. I run a few web sites and a couple post the stages and folks like it. I sometimes don't even read the stages, just post them. Of course I don't have a practice range, but as I said, the target placement can make a big differences. And as others have stated, they know some who have practiced them and for the most part, it didn't seem to make a difference, except some of them screwed up worse! And I do like to "borrow" other fun stage ideas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grouchy Spike Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 I like to read them, study them, make a few notes about how to gunfght the sixguns. And I'll review my copy of the printed scenario for sequence and transitions before I shoot it as I learn better by reading than listening. Half the time I can't hear the TO's reading of the scenario, and the other half I can't understand the TO. Being one that has difficulty delaying gratification, I'd rather shoot early on the posse. 2nd preferably. Always did like my 30 seconds of pleasure as soon as possible! Apparently learned that early on. Nothing's changed except that now I need more time to reach the point of starting the 30 seconds! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 Posting Stages before the shoot. Do you care? NO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Creeker, SASS #43022 Posted January 18, 2011 Author Share Posted January 18, 2011 Unfair advantage HUH???? You got to be kidding me. Please say you don't believe that...................RBK Do I believe it? NO. I know how much it can mess me up thinking about/ gaming the stage before the steel is set, or before I know how many steps between positions or a million other things that can change the "Feel" of a stage for me. But, I know others that feel there is advantage to having this information beforehand. And so I asked for opinions, so I might offer a better product to them. Like I told somebody at the match on Sunday. "Yeah, I write the stages, proof them and put them away. But, I don't really look at 'em afterwards. Half the time, I'm as surprised as you are when we read them" For example, just this weekend - we shot a stage with a (for a gunfighter) lead change/ crossover pistol sequence that had me shaking my head and mumbling "Idiot stage writer". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imis Twohofon,SASS # 46646 Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 They give me the directions just before I shoot the stage, Do I remember them? Sometimes! Do I remember what they said yesterday? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO I shoot Senior Imis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dubious Don #56333 Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 To all the naysayers who think stages should be "secret" until just before ya shoot'em I say...........PHOOEY! Every big match I've been to has given out a shooters handbook the day or the day before the day before the match starts. I'd imagine all them "competitors" spend the better part of whatever time they got practicin them stages. HA! Fat lot a good that'll do ya when the buzzer goes off cuz yer gonna do whatever ya gonna do and it probably AINT gonna be zactly the way you practiced! So ya gots a heads up on (say, there's a flyer on stage # or they gots vertical staging on stage # I'm a gonna shoot my 97) big deal. Aint no advantage. If ya believe that is "unfair" or some sort of "advantage" seein' the stages a'fore ya shoot'em I invite ya to wear a BLINDFOLD to the match, listen to the stages BLINDFOLDED and only take it off just before the beep! (you can git a pard to load yer guns for ya an' lead ya to the starting position) Mebbe it IS people like to practice before because every club I know of that does it everyone LOVES it! (an yeah, if I see a tricky sweep or something coming up, I might practice it but probably not at no range cuz some peoples gots to work during the week and the best we kin do is dry fire someplace.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grouchy Greg, SASS#71981 Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 All the clubs I shoot at put the stages out in advance. I've heard no one complain yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Dick, SASS #12880 Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 I don't care, I don't think it creates an advantage and yes, I think you're making unnecessary work for yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Okie Sawbones, SASS #77381 Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 Creeker, you've been around long enough to know that some folks will complain no matter what you do, so you do what you think is right. I decided to give it a try at the Mima Marauders. Like you, I am also the webmaster. I've never had any complaints that I know about. There was an incident that sealed the deal for me. At one of our matches last summer, I noticed two of our more elderly folks had printed off the stages and had them on their gun carts. Never being shy, I asked them how they liked having the stages available. To paraphrase their responses, "My mind isn't as sharp as it used to be, and some stages cause me problems. These really help me to get through the match without embarrassing myself." If posting the stages helps just one person, then I have done my job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madd Mike #8595 Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 I see changes of stages from time to time at a shoot, that differ from pre printed materials (always, have ben needed, due to many reasons) no biggy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buck D. Law, SASS #62183 Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 Just do it, Creeker. Some will appreciate it, most will not notice. Do it for those who will appreciate it. Bad Hombre and twelve mile...ya'll made me smile. The satire was great. Thanks. Okie Sawbones, right on, brother! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother King, SASS #69031 Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 Creeker, you've been around long enough to know that some folks will complain no matter what you do, so you do what you think is right. I decided to give it a try at the Mima Marauders. Like you, I am also the webmaster. I've never had any complaints that I know about. There was an incident that sealed the deal for me. At one of our matches last summer, I noticed two of our more elderly folks had printed off the stages and had them on their gun carts. Never being shy, I asked them how they liked having the stages available. To paraphrase their responses, "My mind isn't as sharp as it used to be, and some stages cause me problems. These really help me to get through the match without embarrassing myself." If posting the stages helps just one person, then I have done my job. +1... well said. And Creeker, my ol' Great Aunt Loma (East Texas Baptist Sunday school teacher for 72 years) was found of saying, "Even Jesus of Nazareth had his detractors. What chance do you think you have of making everyone happy?" Amen! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sage Creek Gus SASS #64320 Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 I've been posting all our stages on our website since 2007. In fact, they're all still online. I have input from several shooters and write some stages myself. Posting them allows us to have the proof read etc well before the match so we can catch errors and P traps ahead of time. Sage Creek Gus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Creeker, SASS #43022 Posted January 18, 2011 Author Share Posted January 18, 2011 Thank you everybody. I played with it today to see how much extra work it created. As long as I do it at the same time as I am writing the stages, the extra time to convert and up load the files is minimal. So - there is now a tab on our website marked "Next Month" and that takes you to all the stages planned for our next match. http://www.desertdesperados.com/ Once again, thank you to everyone for your feedback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mustang Gregg Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 Nope, I don't really care. Mustang Gregg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el Gato Gordo - SASS #15162 Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 Howdy Creeker. Our Club started posting stages to our website about a year ago and it has been a big hit, our web guy (el Gato Gordo) puts them up about two weeks prior to the match, I feel it offers no one an advantage but it does elimate the cheatin match director thoughts. KK He only thinks it eliminates the cheatin' Match Director thoughts..... Seriously, though, we get a lot of good comments about it, and many shooters show up with the stages in hand. Each month I just have to remember to post, "We reserve the right to make unannounced changes to the stages due to practicality or safety issues that may be discovered during Set Up." Posting is easy, and I like to do it. It was Kiowa's idea, and a good one! Buena suerte, eGG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Ziggy SASS 76870 Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 Yes...I am a fan of allowing shooters an advance look at the stages. I especially like getting a copy of the stage instructions at registration (like most of the bigger shoots). One of our local clubs does this for monthly shoots and I find it helpful to know the round count. It is also nice to be able to read along as the stage is explained. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artic Fox, SASS# 39883 Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 Creeker, Welcome to the wild west wooley world of CAS webmastering. Plum enjoyable to serve our pards well, eh? I'd like to help you with the 'work' part of it with some discoveries I have made in the last eight years. 1. Use HTML code pages for static or long term info only. They are the place to put links, pix, embedded video etc. HTML coded pages are terrible for scores, scenarios, applications for shoots, any info you want to archive later or make available for viewing and printing. The more pages you build, the more difficult and time consuming to build and manage them. The last couple years, I have used one page for Schedule, Scores, Scenarios, and a quick link to the pictures for that shoot (if folks get them to me). We did the scenarios in 2009 but not 2010. Maybe we will this year (I hope). 2. Use Adobe Acrobat pdf files for any and all "view and/or print" info. I played the "many HTML page" game for years resisting the move to pdf. So glad I changed all that last year. Nearly ALL folks who use the web have the free Acrobat Reader. It is extremely robust with the end user being able to size, scroll, search, scale for printing, etc. MUCH easier than standard web pages. FREE The webmaster side. You need a "pdf printer". Of course, Acrobat Pro (costly)is the best. FREE is just as good for just creating pdf documents. Get a free pdf writer. I personally use Acrobat 9 Pro but have used Bullzip, Cute PDF, and PDF995. They all work well. Do avoid any that only allow FREE if they leave a watermark on the pages. A pdf printer will "print" anything you can print to paper as a pdf document. You are probably creating your scenarios in some program that will create all six stages in one document. "Printing" that document with a pdf printer will give you one, six page pdf doc file so fast yer head will spin. If done as individual documents, you can assemble them as one document with one of the tools in PDF995. Upload the file to the web site. Create a hyperlink wherever you want, set it open the pdf in a new window. That way folks won't be disconnected from your web site. PDFs do not have link bars or back links and pards have to click their browser BACK button to return, then leaving your pdf file. Well, that's all for now, did not intend to make a book of this. A couple cowboy sites of mine: http://www.affox.com/lfr/ http://www.affox.com/casscores/ Artic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gawd Awful Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 I like to see it, I look at the stages for the Mima Maruaders up in Washington State even though I may never shoot there. No unfair advantage, in the unlikely case that someone doesn't have internet access, they can go to most librarys and use a computer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gawd Awful Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 Mima has a great group of guys And some great stages. I had the pleasure of shooting with them in December and again in January. I like being able to look at the stages online after a match with the results page so I kinda know where to improve. Also being new to the sport being able to see the stages ahead of time allows me to be able figure out sweeps I have never seen before or what to look out for to avoid procedural peneltys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadlee Headlee SASS 54317 L Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 Creeker, I did the same thing here at our club in Florida. Went great until we decided to write a new sweep that no one had seen yet. Not complicated, very simple when explained on the range showing the shooters with the actual targets in place. As you know these things do not always translate quite as well to the page. I had 4 shooters call to say that they did not think that they were coming to the shoot as it looked way to complicated including a club officer. After much explaining I headed off the fuss and that was the last month that I posted stages in advance. It can be a good thing, but if you are trying to innovate at your shoots and keep things fresh it can be a dangerous thing as well when a shooter makes up his mind to miss your shoot based on a missunderstanding.... -Deadlee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frontier Lone Rider Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 Well done Artic Fox. Lone Rider Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frontier Lone Rider Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 I say go for it. I have compiled two 3 inch binders with stages that I leave at the range. I try to get pards to go through and pick the stages for our shoots. When no one does this, I bring the stages and read them to the group. I have been accused of having an unfair advantage. I have yet to shoot above the middle of the pack, Plus, I have just as many Ps as anyone else and yes I am shooting Senior. I do the website, the monthly newsletter, and compile the scenarios. I often cannot remember one stage from another after having done so many. If posting helps the pards, then do whatever you can to encourage shooters to participate. Lone Rider Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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