John Barleycorn, SASS #76982 Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Hi Pards, I was just on a cast bullet vendors web page and they are no longer going to ship to CA. It was my understanding that this new law only applied to ammunition. When I called, the vendor referred me to a section that included bullets. cut and pasted from ab962.org SEC. 5. Section 12316 of the Penal Code is amended to read b. (2) For purposes of this subdivision, "ammunition" shall include, but not be limited to, any bullet, cartridge, magazine, clip, speed loader, autoloader, or projectile capable of being fired from a firearm with a deadly consequence. "Ammunition" does not include blanks. Can any SASS shooters in the CA legal system verify this? Thanks, JB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Barleycorn, SASS #76982 Posted January 6, 2011 Author Share Posted January 6, 2011 Sorry, meant to post over on wire dont know how to move it over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Barleycorn, SASS #76982 Posted January 6, 2011 Author Share Posted January 6, 2011 Hi Pards, I was just on a cast bullet vendors web page and they are no longer going to ship to CA. It was my understanding that this new law only applied to ammunition. When I called, the vendor referred me to a section that included bullets. cut and pasted from ab962.org SEC. 5. Section 12316 of the Penal Code is amended to read b. (2) For purposes of this subdivision, "ammunition" shall include, but not be limited to, any bullet, cartridge, magazine, clip, speed loader, autoloader, or projectile capable of being fired from a firearm with a deadly consequence. "Ammunition" does not include blanks. Can any SASS shooters in the CA legal system verify this? Thanks, JB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chickahominy Charlie Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 I'm not licensed in CA, but it appears to apply to bullets. "....capable of of being fired from a firearm with a deadly consequence." Heck that includes nails, scrap metal, or anything else that one could stuff down the tube of a cannon as well. That's about the broadest language I can think of to apply to that situation. Glad I don't live in CA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chickahominy Charlie Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 I'm not licensed in CA, but it appears to apply to bullets. "....capable of of being fired from a firearm with a deadly consequence." Heck that includes nails, scrap metal, or anything else that one could stuff down the tube of a cannon as well. That's about the broadest language I can think of to apply to that situation. Glad I don't live in CA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinker John 8684 Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Look at Calela's bullet page says can't sell after the 1st of feb pistol ammunition. To ca. Tinker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adirondack Jack, SASS #53440 Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 "for the purposes of THIS subdivision" is key. The subdivision in question is one about possession by gang members and other forbidden folks. NOWHERE in the law does it say the rest of the law (regarding the sale or purchase by regular folks) includes such a definition of "ammunition", so we are back to the common, dictionary definition of ammo as an assembly ready to be used for the purposes of the balance of the law except that part about possession by forbidden folks. The law does NOT affect sale of components as far as anyone can tell, nor does a reading of the entire law leave us with any way to say that it does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flat Iron Fred Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 It will get better with Moonbeam, LOL!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chickahominy Charlie Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Yep. Everytime I try to do something like that without pulling the entire statute, I invariably mess it up. I stand corrected after pulling the statute which (showing the preceeding section) states: " ( (1) No person prohibited from owning or possessing a firearm under Section 12021 or 12021.1 of this code or Section 8100 or 8103 of the Welfare and Institutions Code shall own, possess, or have under his or her custody or control, any ammunition or reloaded ammunition. (2) For purposes of this subdivision, "ammunition" shall include, but not be limited to, any bullet, cartridge, magazine, clip, speed loader, autoloader, or projectile capable of being fired from a firearm with a deadly consequence. "Ammunition" does not include blanks." Therefore, the portions listed under ((2) only apply to persons "prohibited from owning or possessing a firearm" under the sections listed therein. Feel free to read the entire section at CA Penal Code Section 12316 And those goofy smilies are supposed to be b's, not smilies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hannie Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 The problem is that without looking at the entire sections of the law then some manufacturers and vendors are going to default to just nothing just to be safe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salt Flat Swindler Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 The latest Cabelas shooting catelog I got has a flyer in it stating they will stop selling HANDGUN ammunition to CA residents sometime (21-22 of January?) at the end of this month. Componants aren't mentioned and rifle ammunition appears to be fine. It seems that a lot of CA gun laws are difficult for out of state companies to understand or bother with so they refuse to sell/ship anything firearm related here. Too bad, there is a lot of business they are missing out on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Gun Barney, SASS #2428 Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Yup, if you read the penal code section 12318 sub section a (this is the section prohibiting non face to face transfers), it refers to handgun ammunition as defined by section 12323 sub paragraph a. Sub para a simply defines handgun ammo as ammo used in handguns. It makes no mention of components. However, as we in California have come to realize, many companies will not bother reading our laws are checking with the authorities for the legality of shipping here, they simply refuse to do so in their "own best interest". It is a shame they will lose our business, the companies that do take the time to know the laws in the states they sell to will gain business and loyal customers. Those of us here in California are used to looking up the specific firearms laws and many of us have the California DOJ website bookmarked. Sad, but necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burly Bear Fred Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Yep. Everytime I try to do something like that without pulling the entire statute, I invariably mess it up. I stand corrected after pulling the statute which (showing the preceeding section) states: " ( (1) No person prohibited from owning or possessing a firearm under Section 12021 or 12021.1 of this code or Section 8100 or 8103 of the Welfare and Institutions Code shall own, possess, or have under his or her custody or control, any ammunition or reloaded ammunition. (2) For purposes of this subdivision, "ammunition" shall include, but not be limited to, any bullet, cartridge, magazine, clip, speed loader, autoloader, or projectile capable of being fired from a firearm with a deadly consequence. "Ammunition" does not include blanks." Therefore, the portions listed under ((2) only apply to persons "prohibited from owning or possessing a firearm" under the sections listed therein. Feel free to read the entire section at CA Penal Code Section 12316 And those goofy smilies are supposed to be b's, not smilies. You also might read 12318 as well. Curio & Relic FFL holder with a COE is exempt from this as well. It really is neccessary to read the whole thing a few times to get it close to correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burly Bear Fred Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Yup, if you read the penal code section 12318 sub section a (this is the section prohibiting non face to face transfers), it refers to handgun ammunition as defined by section 12323 sub paragraph a. Sub para a simply defines handgun ammo as ammo used in handguns. It makes no mention of components. However, as we in California have come to realize, many companies will not bother reading our laws are checking with the authorities for the legality of shipping here, they simply refuse to do so in their "own best interest". It is a shame they will lose our business, the companies that do take the time to know the laws in the states they sell to will gain business and loyal customers. Those of us here in California are used to looking up the specific firearms laws and many of us have the California DOJ website bookmarked. Sad, but necessary. EXACTLY! Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burly Bear Fred Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Yup, if you read the penal code section 12318 sub section a (this is the section prohibiting non face to face transfers), it refers to handgun ammunition as defined by section 12323 sub paragraph a. Sub para a simply defines handgun ammo as ammo used in handguns. It makes no mention of components. However, as we in California have come to realize, many companies will not bother reading our laws are checking with the authorities for the legality of shipping here, they simply refuse to do so in their "own best interest". It is a shame they will lose our business, the companies that do take the time to know the laws in the states they sell to will gain business and loyal customers. Those of us here in California are used to looking up the specific firearms laws and many of us have the California DOJ website bookmarked. Sad, but necessary. Thanks Pard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Junky Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 I don't know if the elections were rigged or the majority of the folks in CA aren't like the rest of America....but you reap what you sow.....and they elected the same folks again so go figure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irish Red OToole, #48939 Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Before all you ever-ready CA bashers get your bats out, the reloading component provisions were stripped out of AB962 before final passage. Bullets, powder, and primers are still OK to mail order. If some company outside CA decides not to ship components to us, that's THEIR own decision. There is nothing illegal in shipping bullets to CA now or after Feburary 1st. I'm a CA licensed FFL. Keep your anti-CA bullsh*t to your own selves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunClick Rick Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Or facsimilie thereof And yes that is a Bear up yonder and they do s*** in the woods Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Phil DeGrave SASS #55202 Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Yup, if you read the penal code section 12318 sub section a (this is the section prohibiting non face to face transfers), it refers to handgun ammunition as defined by section 12323 sub paragraph a. Sub para a simply defines handgun ammo as ammo used in handguns. It makes no mention of components. However, as we in California have come to realize, many companies will not bother reading our laws are checking with the authorities for the legality of shipping here, they simply refuse to do so in their "own best interest". It is a shame they will lose our business, the companies that do take the time to know the laws in the states they sell to will gain business and loyal customers. Those of us here in California are used to looking up the specific firearms laws and many of us have the California DOJ website bookmarked. Sad, but necessary. I think when thier bank accounts/profits start dropping, then they will pay some attention to the new CA laws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Foothills Drifter, SASS# 26563 Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Howdy...... You tell 'em IRO'T Vern / Foothills Drifter... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chickahominy Charlie Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Somehow, a couple of posts were deleted in this thread. Anyhoo, since one of 'em was a follow-up post, I guess I need to repost it since I think it shed valid light on the statute. It never fails, but everytime I fail to read the ENTIRE statute, I make an incorrect opinion, so I pulled it. The portion quoted by John Barelycorn has specific language which states, "For the purposes of this subdivision..." "This Subdivision" only includes those who are prohibited from owning or possession a firearm. The section reads: "( (1) No person prohibited from owning or possessing a firearm under Section 12021 or 12021.1 of this code or Section 8100 or 8103 of the Welfare and Institutions Code shall own, possess, or have under his or her custody or control, any ammunition or reloaded ammunition. (2) For purposes of this subdivision, "ammunition" shall include, but not be limited to, any bullet, cartridge, magazine, clip, speed loader, autoloader, or projectile capable of being fired from a firearm with a deadly consequence. "Ammunition" does not include blanks." ...and that goofy little smilie is supposed to be a "b" and not a smilie, but I guess it automatically makes it one whether I wanna or not. The entire provisions can be found here: CA Penal Code Section 12316 And no, no CA bashing here. I'm actually empathetic towards you guys out there on the left coast. I'm glad I don't have to fight so hard to preserve my rights under the Constitution. My hat's off to you pards! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunClick Rick Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Where'd i go???Hope i didn't get Fred in trouble.., If ya live here long enough you know that most of what they do is just for show...Wait till we get to grow pot.mom has 80 acres and a natural gas well.YEEE HAAAW,i'll be writin my own laws then.. Fred lives right aound the corner,ill let him be security! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunClick Rick Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Two thread on this.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Hanger #3720LR Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Chickahominy Charlie, Your responses have not been cut. There are two threads running. Your comments are on the other thread. CH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckhorn Woodie Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 I don't know if the elections were rigged or the majority of the folks in CA aren't like the rest of America....but you reap what you sow.....and they elected the same folks again so go figure. Ca is ruled by the bay area ( San Francisco) & Los Angeles ..The rest of the state is mostly conservative and mostly think & live like normal people.....The city of SF is the weirdest place on earth I have ever been ....90% of the people there just don't think right.....and LA....3% are normal...7% live in la la land ....10% are just plan clueless ...and 60% are illegal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burly Bear Fred Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Where'd i go???Hope i didn't get Fred in trouble.., If ya live here long enough you know that most of what they do is just for show...Wait till we get to grow pot.mom has 80 acres and a natural gas well.YEEE HAAAW,i'll be writin my own laws then.. Fred lives right aound the corner,ill let him be security! You got it Pard. We'll guard ya for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Junky Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Ca is ruled by the bay area ( San Francisco) & Los Angeles ..The rest of the state is mostly conservative and mostly think & live like normal people.....The city of SF is the weirdest place on earth I have ever been ....90% of the people there just don't think right.....and LA....3% are normal...7% live in la la land ....10% are just plan clueless ...and 60% are illegal. Thanks pard. It's seems like if you state the obvious here you get beat up for bashing CA (that happens to me a lot). I am concerned and inquire because CA and the NE seem to be a proving ground for the rest of the US when it comes to stealing our freedom one small step at a time. If the majority of the people don't like the rules that get past that affects all of us and we need to address that and educate folks rather than rolling over for the minority. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricochet Roy, SASS #71853 Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 First off, this law is still not a done deal. It's still in the courts. Roy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B. T. Blade, SASS #35685Life Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Before all you ever-ready CA bashers get your bats out, the reloading component provisions were stripped out of AB962 before final passage. Bullets, powder, and primers are still OK to mail order. If some company outside CA decides not to ship components to us, that's THEIR own decision. There is nothing illegal in shipping bullets to CA now or after Feburary 1st. I'm a CA licensed FFL. Keep your anti-CA bullsh*t to your own selves. Now, while I back what my Pard IROT says and don't like those who bash California........let me give you folks some of my personal observations: - I agree with Buckhorn Woodie that CA is "ruled" by L.A. and the Bay Area. As a CA resident, I see SO many protests for illegal immigrants rights, gay rights, muslim rights, gangbangers rights. I've seen teacher strikes, hotel worker strikes, garbage strikes. Save the beach, save the whales.....you name it. - How many normal, law abiding gun owners do we have in this state? The last time Lucky and I were at the Costa Mesa Gun Show the line to get in was through the parking lot. When we went to Rauhaugee's Shooting Sports Fair last year the line of cars was almost back to the dairy farm. My point is: Where in the he!! is the outrage by CA gun owners / shooting sports people at what's been allowed to go on here in CA!?! Why aren't WE marching on Sacramento!?! When's the last time WE demonstrated en masse. The NRA, CA Rifle and Pistol Assoc. etc. are fine.........but it's time to stop depending on someone else to do everything for us. So........AB962 doesn't apply to "components". BUT - if you agree that perception is sometimes reality, I can see (don't agree, but "see") why some out of state dealers are wary of shipping components to CA. Law abiding gun owners have allowed this to happen here in CA. What will be taken away from us next? What's OUR next step? Lucky and I have travelled to Utah and Colorado recently. We stopped in some of the local "toy stores" along the way and being the friendly folks that we are, had a conversation or two about guns, reloading components, etc. In two places, we were asked where we were from. When we said "California", the reply was basically the same - "Gee, I didn't know any normal folks came from out there". While I'm not sure we can ever totally change left leaning CA........I sure think we have enough gun owners here to voice our opinion and push back some of this horse crap that's been tossed on us. Question is, will we do it - or will the majority of us just sit back and continue to just complain? Think about it - what little gun related right or "thing" will be taken away from us next? What will you do? My .02 cents / my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadeye Don Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Before all you ever-ready CA bashers get your bats out, the reloading component provisions were stripped out of AB962 before final passage. Bullets, powder, and primers are still OK to mail order. If some company outside CA decides not to ship components to us, that's THEIR own decision. There is nothing illegal in shipping bullets to CA now or after Feburary 1st. I'm a CA licensed FFL. Keep your anti-CA bullsh*t to your own selves. Thanks for keeping the usual incorrect statements about California under control. My wife and I plan to retire out there in about 4 years and I am glad to see there are people trying their best to change the laws there. I am hopeful that by the time I get there, things will have relaxed some. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yukon Charley, SASS Life #14739 Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Thanks for keeping the usual incorrect statements about California under control. My wife and I plan to retire out there in about 4 years and I am glad to see there are people trying their best to change the laws there. I am hopeful that by the time I get there, things will have relaxed some. Better to retire right here in TEXAS!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Phil DeGrave SASS #55202 Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Now, while I back what my Pard IROT says and don't like those who bash California........let me give you folks some of my personal observations: - I agree with Buckhorn Woodie that CA is "ruled" by L.A. and the Bay Area. As a CA resident, I see SO many protests for illegal immigrants rights, gay rights, muslim rights, gangbangers rights. I've seen teacher strikes, hotel worker strikes, garbage strikes. Save the beach, save the whales.....you name it. - How many normal, law abiding gun owners do we have in this state? The last time Lucky and I were at the Costa Mesa Gun Show the line to get in was through the parking lot. When we went to Rauhaugee's Shooting Sports Fair last year the line of cars was almost back to the dairy farm. My point is: Where in the he!! is the outrage by CA gun owners / shooting sports people at what's been allowed to go on here in CA!?! Why aren't WE marching on Sacramento!?! When's the last time WE demonstrated en masse. The NRA, CA Rifle and Pistol Assoc. etc. are fine.........but it's time to stop depending on someone else to do everything for us. So........AB962 doesn't apply to "components". BUT - if you agree that perception is sometimes reality, I can see (don't agree, but "see") why some out of state dealers are wary of shipping components to CA. Law abiding gun owners have allowed this to happen here in CA. What will be taken away from us next? What's OUR next step? Lucky and I have travelled to Utah and Colorado recently. We stopped in some of the local "toy stores" along the way and being the friendly folks that we are, had a conversation or two about guns, reloading components, etc. In two places, we were asked where we were from. When we said "California", the reply was basically the same - "Gee, I didn't know any normal folks came from out there". While I'm not sure we can ever totally change left leaning CA........I sure think we have enough gun owners here to voice our opinion and push back some of this horse crap that's been tossed on us. Question is, will we do it - or will the majority of us just sit back and continue to just complain? Think about it - what little gun related right or "thing" will be taken away from us next? What will you do? My .02 cents / my opinion. B.T. and All, Just my thoughts here, nothing to back it up. Maybe one reason why there aren't marches on the "Nuts in Sac" is because us gun owners are busy making a living (and supporting all the "others"). Is it possible all the protests and support for dumbass gun laws are coming from people who have nothing better to do than sit around, collect unemployment checks, listen to some dumbass politician who says we can fix everythig buy taking guns off the street, and then voting for laws that they know nothing about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B. T. Blade, SASS #35685Life Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 B.T. and All, Just my thoughts here, nothing to back it up. Maybe one reason why there aren't marches on the "Nuts in Sac" is because us gun owners are busy making a living (and supporting all the "others"). Is it possible all the protests and support for dumbass gun laws are coming from people who have nothing better to do than sit around, collect unemployment checks, listen to some dumbass politician who says we can fix everythig buy taking guns off the street, and then voting for laws that they know nothing about? That's a very valid point Marshal Phil. Lucky and I are working our tails off trying to save up enough to retire (and stay employed for the time being!). Between SASS shoots and out of state visits to family, our vacation days are quite precious. But - I truly believe that one BIG show of gun owners on the Capital steps would be such an out of the ordinary and eye-opening event......I'd give up some vacation time (even time without pay!) to participate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Woodrow Cahill, SASS # 54363 Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 California Assembly: 52D, 28R; Senate: 24D, 13R. They're not all elected from the Bay Area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hud Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Yep, more then 50% of Californians are recieving moneys from the Gov't. If your getting money from the Govt (welfae etc) you will go out and vote hard for that Gov't. Which is why Ca was the only state in the Union to not only vote all the incumbents BACK into office, but voted even more demicrats into power. Of course, we are broke, but as long as they can legally steal from those WITH jobs, this will keep others in the chips. Remember the only thing wrong with socilism is eventually you run out of other peoples money.... hud (this was paradise once, now its paradise lost) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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