Old Army Replacement

[Smithy]

With rare exception, the only cap and ball guns I have ever owned and shot have been Ruger Old Armies (most of which were the fixed sighted stainless variety, which of course were the first ones to disappear off the market). I find it now to be a fluke to find one, let alone two on the GunBroker and have given up hope of ever being able to acquire another through normal means. I am now therefore contemplating buying a pair of Old Army replacements (read non Rugers) to satisfy my cap and ball needs. I want a solid frame, stainless construction and well built to last not as long per se as a Ruger but maybe a close second. I was thinking of Cabela's New Model 1858 Army in stainless http://www.cabelas.com/product/1858-New-Ar...-All%20Products or its shorter barreled brother. I'm just not familiar with that brand that Cabela's sells, if it is worth the money and such. Any input or other suggestions would be appreciated. Smithy.

[Doc Crumley]

The Remingtons that Cabelas sells are made by Pietta so you'll have to decide if you'd rather have Uberti. Personally, I have been shooting two of Cabelas blued 1858s with R&D conversion cylinders in a monthly for a bit over two years now without any issues at all. I've never shot the percussion cylinders so can't comment on those, but the rest of the guns have held up well so far. As always, your mileage may vary.

 

Doc Crumley

[Buffalo Dick, SASS #12880]

Sent a PM.

[Three Foot Johnson]

1858's are the closest replacement, of course, but how on God's Green Earth did you wear out an Old Army to the point you need to replace it with something else?

Keep your eye on the auction sites - I picked up an apparently unfired blued 7 1/2" fixed sight ROA from Gunbroker in October for a "Buy It Now" price of $330.

 

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem....?Item=195309871

He only had one, the re-list was unintentional.

 

I can't find the "corrosion" mentioned in the description - it appears brand new other than a very light scratch line around the cylinder from the bolt.

[strikermcbain]

Uberti 58 Remington would be your option based on your description. You have the added bonus of it being a historically correct gun as well, if you look for that sort of thing.

[Howdy Doody]

I find that some parts are still available to keep a ROA running. I don't need them yet myself, my ROAs probably have 20 years left on them before retirement. Pards like Rowdy Yates, Power Custom can do big items like barrels and frames. I can still use springs and nipples, cylinder pins, grips and etc that fit 3 screw Blackhawks and even RVs.

 

Meanwhile I have to suggest that when you get a pair, you send them off to West Fargo for some real magic and longevity.

 

Another C&B that always has caught my eye is the Rogers and Spencer. There are repros of them and they look real cool too.

 

[Prairie Dawg, SASS #50329]

I would suggest shooting one before buying one.

 

I like Remmies, but there is very little space between the rear of the trigger guard & the grip & shooting one beats up the knuckle on my middle finger real bad.

 

So, all my cap guns are Colts, Colt repros, and ROAs.

 

I know several shooters who have had the same problem, so it is worth checking out before you buy.

 

--Dawg

[Crazy Gun Barney, SASS #2428]

+1 to what Prairie Dawg said. I want so badly to own some Remingtons. I really do. They are fine guns and the ease at which a conversion cylinder can be added is the icing on that cake. However, they just don't fit my hands right. It is the shape of the grip as it comes up behind the trigger guard. I have held them and played with them lots, and I have shot them (loaned from friends) but I just can't get past the uncomfortableness. I much prefer the Colt's (especially the '51's). They just fit me better.

[JackCoKiller]

I agree with the others.

Based on your criteria, the 58 Army would be my first choice.

 

However, shooting frontiersman I have to shoot one handed. I am significantly faster shooting a 51 or 60 open top one handed than I am shooting a 58 one handed. The down side to the colts is that you will work on them. Particularly hammer springs that get weak and hand and springs that break. Pettifogger's articles can help you make modifications to make the colts much more reliable.

 

If I planned to shoot 2-handed, I would definitely be buying the 58.

[Slowhand Bob, 24229]

+2 on agreeing with Dawg on the poor grips of the '58. I wish someone would come up with a way to Colterize the Remmy grips, as relates to the trigger guard wedge condition, it would then be pretty close to perfect.

[Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283]

Howdy

 

I have two Remmies, one is a stainless Uberti, the other is an old EuroArms made by Armi San Paolo that I bought brand spanky new back around 1975.

 

Ubertis are ever so slightly larger than most other brands, including the Piettas that Cabellas sells. My Uberti weighs about 4 ounces more than my old EuroArms. Incidentally, the slight difference in size is the reason that one must specify brands when ordering a R&D conversion cylinder for a Remmie.

 

If it wuz me, and I wanted another pair of Remmies, I would pay the extra money for Ubertis over a Piettas everytime. I believe the overall quality of an Uberti is still better than a Pietta. I bought a pair of Cabellas Pietta 1860 Colts last year and I was NOT impressed with the finish work. There were raised burrs on the surface of both frames that should have been removed before they were case hardened. They were not and the burrs are still there. Removing them now would mean blemishing the colors of the case hardening. I suspect that the finish work would be just as careless on Pietta Remmies. Ubertis cost more, you get what you pay for.

 

Incidentally, the 1858 Remmie has one glaring design defect. There is no raised bushing on the front face of the cylinder to deflect fouling blasted out of the barrel/cylinder gap away from the cylinder base pin. This means that the pin has to be cleaned frequently to prevent them from binding up. Colt style percussion revolvers also lack a raised bushing on the front of the cylinder, but the arbor the cylinder turns on is much larger in diameter than a Remmie pin, and there are helical grooves cut into the arbor of a Colt to keep fouling from building up. The result is a Remmie binds up quicker than a Colt with BP fouling.

 

I normally shoot my Remmies with R&D conversion cylinders chambered for 45 Colt. Even with Big Lube bullets lubed with lots of SPG, I have to wipe the face of the cylinders clean and wipe down the pin after every cylinder full, or they will bind up on me. I do not have that problem with my 1860s or any of my cartridge revolvers. No big deal because with the R&D cylinders I have to remove them every time I reload them, but it would be nice if I did not have to wipe them down every time.

 

I cannot speak with any authority on how long you can shoot an Old Army without wiping it down. I can speak with authority about Vaqueros though.

 

I too find something about the grip shape of the Remmie somehow uncomfortable. And it is not my finger getting whacked by the trigger guard, because I always hang my pinky under the grip, leaving some space between me and the trigger guard. But there is something uncomfortable about the recoil with an 1858. So much so that I usually shoot them with Schofield brass and 1.9CC of FFg and a 200 grain bullet, as apposed to the 2.2CC of FFg and 250 grain bullets that I shoot out of my Colts or Vaqueros.

 

No matter how you slice it, my own opinion is that any Italian percussion revolver probably has enough production shortcuts inside it that it will not last as long as a Ruger.

 

One last thing.....for shooting Black Powder you really don't need Stainless Steel, unless you just like shiny guns. Most of my BP guns are blued carbon steel. They don't rust anywhere near as easily as those who insist on Stainless usually think.

[J-BAR #18287]

There are lots of fixed sight Ruger Old Armies out there. And every one of them is for sale.

 

Now, you may not want to pay the going price...

[Rev Lyin Kerrdawg SASS # 57116]

Howdy Doody

If I shot Black powder, I would shoot my pair of Rogers & Spencers in the safe Because they are more fun to shoot than my 51's,58,.

 

Smithy,

 

I know what you mean , I have a 5" ROA Blue with 45 colt conversion cylinder. All new in boxes. Never shot. But haven't been able to find another at a reasonable price. Because I"M CHEAP

 

 

Rev

[Smithy]

1858's are the closest replacement, of course, but how on God's Green Earth did you wear out an Old Army to the point you need to replace it with something else?

Keep your eye on the auction sites - I picked up an apparently unfired blued 7 1/2" fixed sight ROA from Gunbroker in October for a "Buy It Now" price of $330

 

I didn't wear out my ROA's, but as a foolhardy youth with no better sense let all of my Old Armies get out from under me. I only have one Old Army left, but it's a custom shopkeepers special with a 3 1/2" barrel and a birdshead grip. Not a main match gun. I received the heads up on a stainless Old Army or two, but they were the adjustable sight versions not the fixed sighted ones that I have been after. I thank you all for your responses as it will help me with my decisions about future purchases in the black powder world. Smithy.

[Bad Hand]

Smithy, I've read that Ruger used the Rogers & Spencer as the starting point for the OA, don't think they are made in SS, but a fun gun to shoot.

[Buck Bisley]

I'll probably get flamed for this; but it's just my own personal experience I am about to relate.

I own two pair of ROAs. Both blue, one 7.5" and the other 5.5" barrels.

Both sets are fixed sighted, which is my preference in ROAs.

I don't have anything against the adjustable sighted ones; but in my opinion any of that type single action should be fixed sighted.

It's just more traditional to me.

Worrying about added wear and tear on my 5.5 ROAs I went and bought a pair of Uberti Remington 1858's with 5.5" barrels.

That was $750 for that pair and I was very disappointed with them from the moment I took them out of the box.

To me comparing the two is like night and day. My ROAs were slick and smooth out of the box.

They shot to POA and were just about the best revolvers I think I've ever owned.

I can't say as much for the 1858's. Granted, I understand that there are many here who will now want to verbally abuse me for expressing any disappointment to an Uberti product; but all I can say is they just aint the same.

I ended up selling that $750 worth of Uberti guns for $300.

Of my ROAs I must say I've come to prefer the 7.5" set over the 5.5" set that I have.

My advice to you Smithy would be to keep a keen eye on the gun auction sites.

I bought my 7.5" set separately through gunbroker.com and Rugerforum.com.

One of them I got for $300 and the other $350. Granted they are blue; but I prefer blue guns.

I just looked at gunbroker and there are a couple of stainless fixed sighted ones to bid on there.

yup... they cost a lot more than I paid; but for me... and hindsight being 20/20... I know if I had to do it again I would hold out for the ROAs and not spend money on something I will ultimately be disappointed with.

But thats just me...

[Long Branch Louie]

Smithy, If you want Rugers, take a look on Guns America, there are several on there starting at $375.00. That's pretty reasonable to me. I'm pretty sure they can ship them direct to you as well. Had one that says it is new for $395.00.....

[Buffalo Dick, SASS #12880]

Smithy, If you want Rugers, take a look on Guns America, there are several on there starting at $375.00. That's pretty reasonable to me. I'm pretty sure they can ship them direct to you as well. Had one that says it is new for $395.00.....

 

Those are all adjustable sight guns and are legal only in age based smokeless cartridge categories.

[G. P. Cobb]

I believe you are correct in every aspect here, I have gone down the same road exactly, starting with sighted Rugers, Uberti befrore I landed here. Yes Bad Hand they do come SS @ 7.5".

__________________________

I'll probably get flamed for this; but it's just my own personal experience I am about to relate.

I own two pair of ROAs. Both blue, one 7.5" and the other 5.5" barrels.

Both sets are fixed sighted, which is my preference in ROAs.

I don't have anything against the adjustable sighted ones; but in my opinion any of that type single action should be fixed sighted.

It's just more traditional to me.

Worrying about added wear and tear on my 5.5 ROAs I went and bought a pair of Uberti Remington 1858's with 5.5" barrels.

That was $750 for that pair and I was very disappointed with them from the moment I took them out of the box.

To me comparing the two is like night and day. My ROAs were slick and smooth out of the box.

They shot to POA and were just about the best revolvers I think I've ever owned.

I can't say as much for the 1858's. Granted, I understand that there are many here who will now want to verbally abuse me for expressing any disappointment to an Uberti product; but all I can say is they just aint the same.

I ended up selling that $750 worth of Uberti guns for $300.

Of my ROAs I must say I've come to prefer the 7.5" set over the 5.5" set that I have.

My advice to you Smithy would be to keep a keen eye on the gun auction sites.

I bought my 7.5" set separately through gunbroker.com and Rugerforum.com.

One of them I got for $300 and the other $350. Granted they are blue; but I prefer blue guns.

I just looked at gunbroker and there are a couple of stainless fixed sighted ones to bid on there.

yup... they cost a lot more than I paid; but for me... and hindsight being 20/20... I know if I had to do it again I would hold out for the ROAs and not spend money on something I will ultimately be disappointed with.

But thats just me...