Bridog Posted January 4, 2011 Author Share Posted January 4, 2011 More good info guys... Is there a difference between GOEX "Cowboy" and FFG or FFFG Goex? Thanks for keeping this going, Bridog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pigeonroost Slim , #36403 Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 It has been a long time since I shot any of the substitute black powders, but I think you stated you liked smoke and there are subs that smoke big time. I shoot only authentic black powder and that includes fun shoot'n (what some call practice). I am now shooting Shuetzen ffg and have not tried Goex Cowboy, not even Goex ffg or fffg for quite a spell. I use traditoinal black powder loading technique for shot shell, powder, wadding, shot, over shot, and then I often cheat and use a pie crimp. I shoot 16ga and prefer (edited, I forgot we are not allowed to post recipes) dram charges and 1oz loads. That is a little stiffer than most CAS shotshell charges, but a fine ruffed grouse round. My revloters and rifle are 45 Colt and I use 250gr boolits. The full house 45 Colt is a true Wart Hog delight, but for fun shoots I save a little on powder by loading 28gr ffg plus grits filler. I have intentionally NOT cleaned my BP arns for way longperds of time; several months even and have not witnessed rust. DON"T EVEN THINK ABUT DOING THAT WITH PYRODEX! For me, hot soapy water is the only solvent I consider. I generally don't get the action or receivers fouled or wet so that is no problem. If I do, I spritz a little Ballistol in the area and it mixes with the wate and then I blow out the excess with air compressor. If you compare a thorough cleaning with black powder guns to that of th heathern smokesless, you will find the BP shooter has an easier chore and that in the end his arns are cleaner. I reload 45 Colt on progressive press with two powder measures to throw both ffg and grits (if using filler), so I can crank 'em out as quick as heathern rounds. I cast my own boolits and use my own lube. You can save yourself a whole lotta learn'n curve if you get hold of the right boolits and libe right off the bat. That depends on the powder you choose to a large extent. prs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackCoKiller Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 Is Triple 7 powder a legal "blackpowder" powder to use? Yes, How bad does the internals of the guns get from black powder usage? ie from blow by, and gasses coming out around the cylinders Do you reload the shotgun shells in plastic hulls with plastic wads much the same way you do smokeless? Or is there a seperate process for loading BP? I use Goex and Remington STS hulls. If using a pump, the hull doesn't matter as much. The STS hulls don't stick often like the new Win AA hulls. As far as wads, you can use plastic but I prefer to use paper wads. I buy them from Circle Fly (www.CircleFly.com). They don't leave residue in the barrel which makes it easier to clean and doesn't litter the range with plastic wads. That is my choice, plastic will work and are what most people use. Are you guys just using BP for the matches and smokeless for practice? Depends on the type of practice. I recommend you start out practicing with black powder loads so you can get used to it and test your loads and equipment. Some pistols won't run dirty. You would rather find out that you have to drop the cylinder and wipe the cylinder pin after every 2 stage during practice than an actual match. Once you get your loads where you want them, and your equipment running well. It makes little difference if you practice with smokeless or BP loads. What are your thoughts on using the 38 for this class? - I'd assume it has much more blow back within the rifle than a longer cased round. That is what most people use. The smaller bore bullet requires more lube if using real BP. That is much less of an issue with substitutes. Real BP fouls, and it really affects accuracy and reliability after a couple stages. I am talking about missing cowboy sized targets at SASS range with a steady aim and squeeze the trigger. Don't let is scare you away from real BP in your rifle, just remember to swab the bore after each stage with a ballistol patch to keep the fouling loose. FFFFg Goex is a nice 38 spl load with little fouling. Some people are going to tell you that you can't do it. My response to the "neigh sayers" is to ask them if they ever tried. My cousin shoots Goex FFFFg in a 38 and it is his preferred load. I have witnessed how clean it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283 Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 I reload 45 Colt on progressive press with two powder measures to throw both ffg and grits (if using filler), so I can crank 'em out as quick as heathern rounds. I cast my own boolits and use my own lube. You can save yourself a whole lotta learn'n curve if you get hold of the right boolits and libe right off the bat. That depends on the powder you choose to a large extent. prs Howdy Again Just thought I would add that Pigeonroost Slim is the inventor of the PRS 250 grain Big Lube 45 Caliber bullet, and he really knows what he is talking about regarding bullets and lube. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 Is there a difference between GOEX "Cowboy" and FFG or FFFG Goex? Not much of a real difference. I've used all three with good success in .44-40 and .45 Colt. In theory, Cowboy cleans up a little easier, but I can't tell any difference. And, to save some money, I've also used Diamondback FFFg in both of those loadings, also with good success. Good luck, GJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snakebite Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 Hello All, New shooter here... I'm looking at shooting the frontier cartridge class and have some questions for you all. I like the look of smoke coming out of those barrels. I am shooting stainless vaqueros 38's, stoeger nickel sxs and still looking at rifles (leaning towards a 38/357 Rossi 92 stainless). I prefer the 73 rifle to the 92 style. Is Triple 7 powder a legal "blackpowder" powder to use? Triple 7 is lega. I use 2F in my 38 cases, loaded to the bottom of the bullet, with no compression. Don't use SPG or any other soft lube... use a smokeless lube. How bad does the internals of the guns get from black powder usage? ie from blow by, and gasses coming out around the cylinders How often do you need to pull the guts of the gun apart? Cleaning tips? If you use 777, the gun does not get extreamly dirty. I suggest that you carry a small squirt bottle of water and give things a squirt or two every few stages. 777 can leave hard residue.. that softens right up with a dab of water. Open your cylinder/barrrel gap up to about .006, and you ought to be in good shape. Do you reload the shotgun shells in plastic hulls with plastic wads much the same way you do smokeless? Or is there a seperate process for loading BP? I use plastic hulls and wads. You can use a RED wad on top of enough powder to bring the top of the wad to just below the crimp fold, and fill the cup with shot. If you want a lighter load, then use a taller wad and load the same way. Very little compression is need or desired... just make sure that the wad is seated well on top of the powder. Are you guys just using BP for the matches and smokeless for practice? They are two different games. Shooting smokeless throws me off of my BP game. You must learn to "Know" where the target is when shooting BP. Shooting Smokeless and then trying to shoot BP in a match can lead to a lot of misses when all of a sudden you can't see the targets as well as you can with Smokeless ammo. Any other odd tips or input would be greatly appreciated. There is a load of information out there... some good some not so good. In general, it is a lot harder to screw up using BP or sub than it is with smokeless powder. What are your thoughts on using the 38 for this class? - I'd assume it has much more blow back within the rifle than a longer cased round. The ideal BP cartridge is the 44-40... it is a bottle neck case, and is very thin... which gives you a good seal on the chamber... but 38s work just fine.... like a said... a squirt of water or your favorite elixer every once and while goes a long way in keeping things running smoothly. Thanks for your help - Bridog I say.."Go for it!" its fun. Snakebite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bridog Posted January 6, 2011 Author Share Posted January 6, 2011 Hello All, Still doing lots of reading, absorbing, deciding. Thanks for the additional advice guys. Bridog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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