Jump to content
SASS Wire Forum

first time reloader


goettagun

Recommended Posts

My wife and I just started SASS shooting last year so we're still very green with all the technical aspects. Due to the cost of shooting (and because I like to buy new gun related toys.. er equipment) we just picked up a new Dillon 550B to help with the costs. I've started some research on the best primers, bullets, and powder and of course there are a ton of opinions. As we are going to primarily use this equipment for the cowboy shooting I figured I'd ask the best online source I know for advice on what would be the best way to get started. Some info on what we have to work with: My wife shoots 45LC out of a Taylor and Co Uberti 1873, and 45LC out of Beretta Stampedes; I shoot 38 special from Ruger Vaqueros, a Marlin 1894, and a Taylor and Co Uberti 1873. I'm far more mechanically inclined than she is and will probably do most of the reloading but she also has expressed interest in helping. I bought two sets of dies and the caliber conversion kits for the Dillon but have not set up the equipment not purchased any reloading supplies. My primary concerns are safety (double powder charges, no powder charges, etc..), reliability of the ammunition, and reliability of using the supplies with our equipment. As we're fairly new and can't justify a match every weekend in our schedule I don't think we'll be reloading more than a few hundred rounds at a time per caliber. The 550B was recommended due to this as the low volume and frequent change of calibers.

 

Any help to get started down the right path would be greatly appreciated!

 

thanks

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Biggest difference between the 550 and 650 is the 550 doesn't auto index and has one less place for a die (four place versus five for the 650) Your 550 will give you long years of satisfactory service.

 

Watch the Dillon video, self-explanatory. The actual process is quite simple. One station sizes and decaps then primes on the downstroke. Two station eapands and drops powder. Three station does bullet seating/ and crimping OR use #4 for crimping. Remember everymotion on the handle REQUIRES you to manually advance the shellplate. Check the powder level EVERY time before you seat a bullet. Once you start loading, it soon becomes second nature and you'll make perfect rounds every time.

 

Keep it simple. Choose one powder for both. Clays, Trailboss, Titegroup, Bullseye to name a few will all work in 38/45 loads. EVERY TIME YOU CHANGE CALIBER CHECK THE MEASURE FOR PROPER SETTING! If you use something like Trailboss and screw up, it is unlikely that a 45 charge in a 38 case (if it fits) will damage the gun. Not true for other powders.

 

You'll need bullets and primers for each (small for 38/357 and large for 45) and a supply of cases of course. It's easy to get a 38 case inside a 45LC so check EVERY case before you put it in the machine. (good time to check for cracked/crushed/unusable cases) Get a case checker. Check every round if you like but one in five/ten is sufficient.

 

Before you start loading real ammo, try setting it up and loading some with no primer and powder. You can take these apart later and reuse the components OR, fill the primer pockets with silicone and you have dummy rounds to practice with (though I would suggest using A-Zoom or Safe-T-Trainer orange ones that can't be confused with live rounds) Go slow at first. Worry about quality first, quanity/speed second.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Welcome to the great world of reloading

First off what type of powder ? smokless or black powder?

One thing that will help is to get a second head and set it up for the other gun, that way you only have to change shell plate.

Others will jump in there too, all my reloading for SASS is for the dark side with 2 different heads for my pistols (CBS) and rifle (LC) both 45's

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The 550 is a pretty popular reloader. Ask around your local club for some one to work with you to start out. It is a big help to have someone knowledgeable to get you started.

 

And, if you haven't already, buy a good reloading manual. Of course you can get a lot of information about the actual loads from the power makers websites. But the manuals help with understanding the overall process, etc.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I was about to suggest a single stage press to start out on and I still lean that way. However, you've received some very good advice.

 

Just remember that you must advance the stage before pulling the handle. Every time its pulled whatever case is under the measure gets a charge. If a primer gets sideways or the like it is advisable to remove the case under the powder die. A powder check die is a really good idea.

 

After every use, blow everything thing clean with compressed air and you should have no problems. The 550 is a great machine but you have to learn what or what not to do if it stutters.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you haven't already, plan on setting up Reloading dies in the removeable Die holder for each Caliber. Position One is your CARBID Resizing die Position Two is your flow through Powder Case Belling Die position Three I like to use to seat the bullet and Position 4, I Crimp the Case. A $20.00 Lee crimp die Goes here for me. If your using Dillon Dies for Each Caliber you'll be Ok. Invest the Additional money in a second Powder Measure. One for ecah caliber since right now your only need two. It will save you a lot of time re-ajusting and verifying powder charges, Then all you have to do Is swap shell holder and Primer system parts and you can go from one caliber to another in about 15 minutes of less after you change the dies.

 

Start slowly have a good set of scales and enjoy tayloring your loads to your guns!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

snip.. DD gave you some good info.. just to elaborate a little

The actual process is quite simple.

# One station sizes and decaps (pushes out) the primes on the downstroke. (To install the primer you push the handle back... this becomes second nature.. but this is where you can get high primers.. make sure of a solid push back...)

 

# Two station expands and drops powder. (this is also called belling the brass so that a piece of lead will sit there.. You hopefully have a set of calipurs to measure the belling.. too much belling will cause increased wear and tear and premature splitting of your cases)

 

# Three station does bullet seating/ and crimping OR use #4 for crimping. (I use #3 for bullet seating only.. again you need to check the bullet depth of seating.

 

#4 I use for crimping only) crimping isn't needed much for your pistol ammo but definetly needed for your rifle ammo..Remember everymotion on the handle REQUIRES you to manually advance the shellplate. Check the powder level EVERY time before you seat a bullet (while you get started) Once you start loading, it soon becomes second nature and you'll make perfect rounds every time.

 

Keep it simple. Choose one powder for both. Clays, Trailboss, Titegroup, Bullseye to name a few will all work in 38/45 loads. EVERY TIME YOU CHANGE CALIBER CHECK THE MEASURE FOR PROPER SETTING! If you use something like Trailboss and screw up, it is unlikely that a 45 charge in a 38 case (if it fits) will damage the gun. Not true for other powders.

 

You'll need bullets and primers for each (small for 38/357 and large for 45) and a supply of cases of course. It's easy to get a 38 case inside a 45LC so check EVERY case before you put it in the machine. (good time to check for cracked/crushed/unusable cases) Get a case checker. Check every round if you like but one in five/ten is sufficient.

 

Before you start loading real ammo, try setting it up and loading some with no primer and powder. You can take these apart later and reuse the components OR, fill the primer pockets with silicone and you have dummy rounds to practice with (though I would suggest using A-Zoom or Safe-T-Trainer orange ones that can't be confused with live rounds) Go slow at first. Worry about quality first, quanity/speed second.

 

Like I said Dubious Don gave good info. I'm just eleaborating on it a little..

 

I'd recommend doing just one bullet completely at a time... once you see that everything is pushing, dropping, seating, crimping properlly.. overall lenth of the bullet is where you want it... your ready to multi stage load...

 

I do check my powder measure before each loading session to make sure it's still dropping the amount of powder I want..

I'll usually measure the first round of a session to make sure the overall length is where I want it ... If it's all ok..

Just start pullin' the handle and rotate your spindle.. your reloadin'...

Welcome aboard :lol:

 

Rance :blush:

Thinkin' your gonna get more advice than this :wub:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Can't tell if you already have 'em from your initial post, goettagun, but there are some non-press items you should have to complement the 550 (or any press):

 

- reloading manual, preferable two or even three; the important parts are the "how to" sections (since you can usually get recipes from the powder or bullet companies)... and I might recommend "The ABC's of Reloading" and/or Richard Lee's book on reloading.

 

- powder scale, to set and check charges thrown by your powder measure (these days of cheap electronics, balance beams are relatively obsolete... unless that what' ya got, in which case they work fine)

 

- dial caliper (mentioned above)

 

- bullet puller

 

- cartridge boxes (and associated labeling stuff) for loaded rounds, perhaps color coded (or if you end up loading different rounds for rifles and pistols for some reason, etc.)

 

- prob'ly some others I've forgotten...

 

-Chris

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Howdy Pard, welcome to Reloading!

 

I noticed your concern about loading so you prevent double charges. You can do this on a 550 in a few different ways.

 

The most sure way is to install a RCBS Lock-out die, as shown here:

 

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=536792

 

This will prevent a missing powder charge or a double charge. This can be installed in the third die station of the 550, and a combination seater/crimper on the fourth station. A combined seater/crimper CAN be easily adjusted to give you good ammo. It is rarely necessary to use a separate crimp die as some recommended above (especially on 38 or 45 Colt) - having to use one normally means some other loading station is not set correctly.

 

 

Second way - use TrailBoss powder - it is so bulky that if you double charge, you get a powder overflow, usually very noticeable usually, except some .45 Colt loads with it will not overflow that giant case. Does not prevent no charge in the case, however.

 

 

Third way - eliminate ALL interruptions when loading. Have all your supplies laid out, primer loading tubes loaded, bullets right on the deck, so you don't have a strong possibility of forgetting to charge or double charging a case. Clean the seating die about every 200-300 rounds to keep from having a bullet stick in the die, then come out on the next case, giving you two slugs loaded in a case - a real bomb.

(Hint- the Dillon seater die is very easy to clean as the seating stem is held in with a spring clip).

 

 

Another supply you will probably want - Hornady One-Shot case lube. Even if you are using carbide sizing dies, the work you have to do is cut down if you give the cases a quick shot a minute before loading.

 

 

A case tumbler is just about required when loading larger volumes of ammo in cowboy shooting. Lots of the cases end up on the ground, with dust and grit accumulating on them. This scratches sizing dies, which then scratch every case run through them. So, tumble your cases with a walnut hull media before loading them - even if you don't need to have them shiny, you do need to have them clean.

 

Read your loading manual, get a pard who loads to come over and help supervise the first time, these help prevent creating bad ammo and having to pull lots of loaded ammo apart.

 

Your component choices are many, and depend upon what kind of load you want to shoot. The competitive loads are lower power than most loading that is done, and with faster powders and light lead slugs. All this reduces recoil and allows you to shoot faster.

 

Clays or Trail Boss or TiteGroup, as mentioned, are good starting powders. A 125 grain Truncated Cone slug in .38 and a 200 grain Round Nose Flat Point in .45 Colt are good starting bullets. Winchester or Starline brass are great, if you are buying new brass. Starline can be ordered direct from the factory for a reasonable price. Federal primers work in everything, and magnum or match primers are NOT required normally.

 

Good luck, GJ

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Howdy

 

I can't help you much with the specifics of the Dillon machine, but you most definitely want a good reloading manual, AND you want to read it before you start trying to crank out any ammo.

 

I recommend the Lyman Pistol and Revolver Handbook. It is what I learned to reload with. The regular Lyman manual is good, as are the manuals from Speer and Lee. The most important thing is to sit down and read the chapters that actually describe the reloading process. Be sure to do this before you start cranking out any ammo.

 

You have chosen to learn on a progressive press. Not what I recommend, but it can be done. But ya gots to be careful. When you are first starting, you can operate the press so that you only process one piece of brass at a time. Be sure to do this for a while so you will understand exactly what is happening at each and every station. And take the time to do this for a bunch of rounds, don't just load three and throw the switch to full auto. Just loading a few and going to full auto will make you a good machine operator, but you will miss a lot of the fine points of reloading.

 

Lastly, always make up a few dummy rounds for seating your bullets and setting your crimps. Whether you seat and crimp in one step, or take two steps, don't start setting your dies with powder and primers. Sacrifice a few cases and bullets to make up some dummies. You can adjust your seating and crimp settings without wasting powder and primers and possibly turning out bad ammo. Set your set up dummies aside and label them. They will come in handy if you ever have need to change your die settings and want to reset to the original settings.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you are using minimum loads with light bullets a tight crimp is important to develop the minimum pressure required to get the powder to burn correctly. Lighter bullets require larger powder charges to develop the minimum pressure required for proper burn. I use Trail Boss for my cowboy loads. For 45LC a double charge of the suggested starting load for 200 grain RNFP bullet from the Lyman 49th addition does not overflow the case. However it’s very noticeable since it almost completely fills the case. Also, if you do not purchase a power measure for each caliber you can save a lot of set-up time by purchasing a complete powder bar assembly and powder die for each caliber.

 

JD

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My primary concerns are safety (double powder charges, no powder charges, etc..), reliability of the ammunition, and reliability of using the supplies with our equipment.

goettagun, you are over concerned

 

If you paranoid about these ... you and the Mrs MUST enroll in an NRA Reloading Class

 

2X Powder Charges: User Error, not the machine. RCBS Lock-out die overrides operator error

 

No Powder Charges: On the 550B, just insure the Fail Safe Assembly is adjusted correctly and the charging bar goes completely through it's full cycle. Worst Case? Your loaded rounds won't go Bang. No Big Deal

 

16813 Failsafe Rod Assembly

13799 Stripper Wing Nut

13801 Tinnerman Nut Insert

14033 Rod Spring

18086 Shoulder Washer

97000 Failsafe Rod

 

Reliability of Ammunition: Again not the machine, the User. As they say, Garbage In - Garbage Out

 

Reliability of using the supplies with our equipment: I have no idea what you are talking about here. There are millions of reloads made each year with products sold by reloading manufacturers and the only time one hears of a mishap ... it's the operator again

 

Like Yellowhouse Sam recommended: If you feel the Dillon 550B progressive press is too technically complicated and over your head ... start out reloading with a single stage press. Which ever press you decide on ... buy a Reloading Handbook so you and the Mrs have an idea what you going to do and have a knowledge of what each die does and won't do

 

The Wire Is Not The Place for You to Get Your Education!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you are using minimum loads with light bullets a tight crimp is important to develop the minimum pressure required to get the powder to burn correctly. Lighter bullets require larger powder charges to develop the minimum pressure required for proper burn. I use Trail Boss for my cowboy loads. For 45LC a double charge of the suggested starting load for 200 grain RNFP bullet from the Lyman 49th addition does not overflow the case. However it’s very noticeable since it almost completely fills the case. Also, if you do not purchase a power measure for each caliber you can save a lot of set-up time by purchasing a complete powder bar assembly and powder die for each caliber.

 

JD

 

IF you were to use Trailboss you could set up the two charge bars your press came with (ahould have one small and one large charge bar) one for 38 loads (small) one for 45 loads (large). It is really simple to change them out.

 

What others have said about doing one round at a time is a really good idea. Instead of a piece of brass at every station, do one. Ditto on Driftwood's (and others) Lyman book suggestion. Excellent starter book.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This has been an interesting post, lots of good advice. However through this whole senerio I am wondering why two

different calibers when one would make it so much easier for You? Regards, TJ

 

TJ.. it's just like learning how to reload... ;)

His wife shoots 45's... are you gonna try to change her mind? :huh: I ain't.. and I don't think he gonna try either :D

 

Rance <_<

thinkin' that's a simple answer

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My wife helps me with reloading also, but I keep it to things she can do in the house versus the garage. Before I load, but after the brass is cleaned, she sorts the brass into the mfg so I keep like mfg ammo together. This is also a good check to make sure there are no rocks or trash inside the brass and it is all the correct caliber one more time. Another task she does is lay all the brass into an old cookie sheet and I very lightly spray the brass with One Shot by Hornady for a lube to make the Dillon lever run easier. By laying it on the cookie sheet with all the openings faced one way, I keep the lube out of the inside of the brass. After the rounds are loaded, my wife takes every single round and puts it in a case checker to make sure it will fit our guns and helps to rid our loaded rounds from any brass starting to split, long before you can easily see it. She then puts the rounds into 100 qty boxes for the loaded ammo and does one last check looking for potential high primers. We load from 5,000 to 10,000 rounds per winter this way.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

After you get the loads you like, I suggest you buy your brass on a 3 or 4 to 1 ratio. Get 3 or 4 times more 38 than 45. When you do this, reload all your 38's and change the primer mechanism to large (i consider it a PITA, others don't). Since your 45 brass will cost more, you want to use them on a as needed basis. Load all the 38 brass you have and then go to the 45's. This way you won't have to change primer slide and adjust as often. If you can load up 3 months of 38,s you won't have to change primer mechanisms,but 4 times a year.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I use an RCBS Lock-out die after the powder measure. (My bullet seating and crimping are done at the same station.) It will stop the press if there's a double charge or no charge. This allows my powder choice to be fairly flexible. I currently use Clays because I can use it in everything including shot shells.

 

Before getting the lock-out die, I used Trail Boss because it generally is fairly obvious if there's a double charge since it occupies greater volume. However, I still think the lock-out die is a good safety idea.

 

As far as other components, whatever you can get that has the best price generally works fine (this is not bench-rest shooting). Some primers are "harder" than others, but the difference is generally not that great as long as you have not lightened the springs too much.

 

--Ranger Dave

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for all the advice, the input is very helpful and much appreciated... and to answer a few questions

 

We are not shooting black powder right now only smokeless. I read some info about the trailboss powder sometimes causing issues in some equipment (inconsistent fills) but overall it seems to have good reviews so I'm leaning towards trying it for the first go around (plus I like the extra volume as a check). Titegroup was mentioned as a good powder for the CAS on other sites as well so any good, bad, or things to look out for is appreciated (info other other powders is welcome). I still have some research to do on bullet weight and manufacturers but there are a few of the folks from the local club that have made some suggestions I can follow up on.

 

I bought a Lyman's manual and and am working through it prior to loading and have the necessary accessories mentioned in a number of posts (The shop I purchased it from was very helpful in making sure most bases were covered). I'm going to look into the lockout die as that seems like a good idea. Having spent much of my working career designing equipment in industries where secondary safeties are common to proof what should be very well tended work I understand the value of a backup fail safe. I like the idea of the second setup for the different powder charges to keep adjustments simple - I'll look into that as well.

 

The operation of the equipment will not be an issue, its a pretty simple mechanism and process so I don't expect any concerns. Time will usually polish any technique and build confidence so that will come in time plus I've a few friends that reload (albeit not for the SASS shooting) to help answer the questions as well.

 

Oh - my wife shoots 45's as its required for the mounted shooting side of the sport (restricted to 45's for the blanks that are used) and I couldn't afford to buy her two sets of guns in different caliber to use one caliber on foot and the other from horseback just to match ammunition. I shoot 38's because I already own the guns (and new ammunition was a lot cheaper to use prior to buying a reloading press). Having her help with prep rather than reloading is a good idea as well as it keeps her involved and keeps me from having to worry about an issue that may slip by her watchful eye.

 

BTW - the reason for my questions is I've found its a lot cheaper to ask folks that have experience then to find all the common problems first hand or buy equipment that isn't necessary or doesn't work. If my post's questions sounded very open ended it was to get as much info as I could to create a knowledge base to work from and find out if there are common issues to look out for. Once again I appreciate all the advice, info, and responses from everyone. I have to say that the community that we've discovered in this sport is second to none in providing a helping hand to those getting started to help make us newcomers feel comfortable and welcome.

 

thanks again and any advice is welcome.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Everybody out there has a favorite powder. For SASS type loads many powders will work for .38 & .45 LC as well as 45 ACP if you ever go the wildbunch route. Most of the fast powders to medium fast powders will work in shotguns as well. Bullseye, Nitro 100, Red Dot and AA2 will work with about 3 grains, which is a small amount and double or even triple charges will fit in the case. If you touch one off I don't want to be in the same county.

 

AA5, HP38, HS6 and Unique are somewhat slower and will take a larger load than trail boss. It is sorta like fords, chevys and dodges you name the powder someone will swear by it others will find fault.

 

Read a bunch of load data and pick a powder that will get you the velocities you want. Being a cheap guy I have used nitro 100 a lot, 3.5 grain loads get about 2000 rounds a pound, pretty economical. The powder guys figured that out and now sell 12 oz for the price of 16

 

I just went into hock for 2 .45 Vaqueros as we are working on getting my brothers horse ready for mounted shooting. Understand your pain. Probably about time for a new gun or two as one of the OM Vaqueros was purchased about 4 years ago and I bought the first one back in 95 time frame when you only needed 1 pistol for CAS.

 

My first manual was the Lyman 47th edition. They are a real good primmer for reloading. Pay attention and enjoy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

One other thing, an earlier poster mentioned no powder, round does not go bang, no big deal.

This can be a very big deal. A primer can get a bullet out of the cylinder and up into the barrel, which is not a really big deal until another round is fired then all hell breaks loose.

Any time you get a round that does not go bang, stop and investigate.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.