Jump to content
SASS Wire Forum

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Gateway Kid SASS# 70038 Life

Are good shooters intimidating?

Recommended Posts

As a still-green shooter who just recently got his time down into the FORTIES I can speak with unaccustomed authority when I say...

 

NOPE! Inspired, but not intimidated!!!

 

Hi-Yo and Awaaaay,

That Masked Man

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've seen a lot of champions shoot over the years and have been amazed at how smoooth they were with little wasted movement and slick transitions. Most will freely offer tips and provide us with good role models. They generally work as hard or harder than anyone on a posse and many display a high degree of character. I applaud their skills and their acheivements and enjoy seeing their performances.

No they shouldn't "throw" their game to make others feel good, but just continue to show what might be possible to attain through practice and hard work. I don't slow down at work to make my coworkers feel better about themselves, so why would they want to do this to their shooting?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am still new at this and I love it more every day, Not just the shooting but the people,They are real friends(PARDS) as it is put on here.I was looking at all of my shoot scores I have shot. All are 6 stage scores.My First was 505.32 my last was 334.17.That is not good but it is better and good for me. I am 67 years old, My fingers are starting to turns some, I have to watch when I start shooting that I dont look throught the wrong folcal of my classes, tri-folcals.I would not have started shooting if I would have seen a group of guys like me shooting the first time I went to watch.I have only shot 7 shoots and I hope I am around to shoot 700 more.With out the fast guys it would not be as much fun.I wish I would have started when I was in my 20s or 30s , I think I would have been good and fast,NO I DONT BECAUSE I WOULD NOT OF LET MYSELF ENJOY BACK THEN.I love this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Agreed + a bunch.

My experience has been that the good shooters tend to be the first to help. Course in SASS/CAS EVERYBODY I have met has been nice to me and to many others.

 

What I was really asking was if a new person came to a match and saw Bud, Deuce, Lead Dispenser or any of the many really good shooters, would simply seeing how good they are make the new person think to themselves "I could never do that" And if so should a top gun slow down in the interest of attracting new people to the game?

 

Regards

 

:unsure:

 

Gateway Kid

 

Should a top gun slow down in the interest of attracting new people to the game? uhhhh.....NO.....this is a shooting competition (on many levels not just for the top guns) not a membership recruiting event.

 

That being said.....Can a prospective shooter be intimidated.....ABSOLUTELY!

 

That's why it is imperative that we go and TALK to the spectators. Answer their questions. Tell them

 

"Hotdog Slim has been shooting this game for a good while and has spent a lot of time practicing to reach that point. It sure is a hoot to watch him but not everyone strives for that and really that's what makes this game so great. There is something in it for everyone. If you want to learn to shoot fast you can. If you want to dress cowboy to the nines you can. If want to shoot original guns and or loads you can. Shoot slow, shoot fast, shoot smokeless, shoot BlackPowder, shoot one handed, shoot two handed........Pick any combination you want.......We all shoot together and have a great time......and remember this....you won't find any friendlier group then Cowboys. You'll get all the advice you need and some you probably don't."

 

Don't forget to keep talking to them when they show up for their first match. There is a lot going on and that can be real intimidating as well. I like to reassure the new shooters that everyone there was a new shooter once. Take it easy and be safe.

 

Stan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Are good shooters intimidating ? maybe to some but my feeling when I got started was if he can do it I could do it

 

I think for some a good fast shooter makes it look easy ,but when folks actually try it they see its as not easy as it looks

 

 

What is great about most matches is you have shooters of all skill levels and I think most folks see that.

 

 

 

AO

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Did not want to hijack another thread but a reply or two from some of the better known shooters got me to thinking.

Does the sheer speed of some of the really good shooters drive off new shooters?

I know that with all the rules, the needed skill with different guns and the different levels of competitiveness amongst people SASS/CAS can be pretty overwhelming for a beginner.

But would seeing some of the top guns and their mastery of the sport drive off potential new shooters?

From my own viewpoint when I first started I thought about how cool it would be to "be like Mike!" and as a competitive person getting whomped only made me want to get better.

but I saw some posts where it looked like certain clubs/folks thought it would be better if the top guns "toned it down" a bit so the newbies wouldn't quit before they began.

 

Your thoughts?

 

Regards

 

:unsure:

 

Gateway Kid

 

I would think that top shooters would inspire new shooters rather than drive them away. I've yet to meet a "top shooter" who wasn't welcoming, encouraging and helpful to a new shooter.

 

Some shooters (including myself) prefer not to be distracted at the loading table and this lack of conversation is sometimes interpeted as "snobishness". Not true. The mental part of this game is just as important as the other parts and proper focus when shooting a stage is critical to good performance.

 

While there is natural talent and abilities at work, the biggest difference is practice. The top shooters in our sport work hard to get there and stay there. It requires an investment of time and money. ANY shooter can do this with enough practice! (so next time you see a top shooter shoot a sixteen second stage and whisper to yourself "I wish I could do that" remember that YOU CAN!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Frankly, I think this is a BS question...now I know there's a technical term for this kind of question...but I just don't know what it is.

 

Fact is that on just about every posse that a new shooter would be on there are going to be more "average" shooters then 16 second Top Shooters. It's not like the new shooter is going to be surrounded by Buds and Spences.

 

Now if the new shooter can't see nuthin but the one or two top shooters...well...they'z the one with the issues.

 

Phantom

:unsure:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If a propect comes to a match thinking, I'm gonna be #1 right from the beginning, maybe they SHOULD be intimidated. Their attitude probably has more to do with it than mine.

 

When I attended my first match, I watched everyone and thought, that's cool. I wanna do that. This included having fun and shooting fast.

 

We work hard. We work smart. We spend the time, money and energy to get to the top. We freely share our knowledge. We encourage newcomers. We work as hard or harder than anybody else at every match. So if anybody suggests I slow down I'm not gonna be accomodating or nice.

 

Possum

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Most of what I’d have to say has been said by others. Essentially, with the friendliness of shooters throughout this sport from the fastest to the slowest, I can’t imagine someone being intimidated enough to actually stop shooting. If someone is fragile enough to stop shooting due to being intimidated by seeing a stage burned down, they’re fragile enough that it’s just a matter of time before something else “runs them off.”

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Most of what I’d have to say has been said by others. Essentially, with the friendliness of shooters throughout this sport from the fastest to the slowest, I can’t imagine someone being intimidated enough to actually stop shooting. If someone is fragile enough to stop shooting due to being intimidated by seeing a stage burned down, they’re fragile enough that it’s just a matter of time before something else “runs them off.”

It doesn't bother me when I see how bad you beat me every month. It just gives me something to shoot for. Every month I get better. I figure at the rate I'm going I'll be up in the top 10 in just a few more years. That is unless my age starts slowing me down first.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Winchester Jack, SASS #70195
I couldn't say for sure, my first major match at The Cowboys I was on the same posse as Lead Dispenser. :unsure: In all seriousness, Spencer made everyone feel at easy with with his sense of good humor, humility, and just favin' fun. For that reason to me Lead Dispense has always been a real champion of champions.

 

Roy

+1

my 4th match ever was Chorro Valleys JWSO and i was helping run the speed rifle side match when this young man (Lead Dispenser) came up to try his hand. I was in awe as he ripped off ten shots in less than 3 seconds. Then he did it again! I really enjoy watching the fast ones compete even though I know I wont ever be in their class I can watch and cheer them on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The first time I met Possum was at a hotel where Sugah and I were staying to attend Hellfire. He was sitting with a group outside, but I didn’t know he was one of the group. I introduced myself and he said something like, “Buck, I’m Possum. Nice to meet you. You want a beer?” I said, “Sure!” and he handed me a beer. It was very intimidated…because I’d never heard of the beer before…but it was good, so I wasn’t intimidated any more. I’ll never forget meeting Possum or my first Shiner Bock. :unsure:

 

Most of this story is true.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Should the fast shooters "slow down" so they don't intimidate new shooters? No, of course not.

 

If you were a race car driver and got to the big leagues (Nascar Cup Series), would Jimmy Johnson or the late Dale Earnhardt slow down for you............NO.

If you were a baseball player and got to the big leagues (MLB), would the Yankees put in their Triple A team to play you............NO.

If you were a football player and got to the big leagues (NFL), would the Patriots sit out Brady and the 1st stringers..........NO.

 

However, if you were one of those listed above and watched the teams/individuals listed above...........you would learn from them and get better with time, patience and practice.

 

Everybody has to start somewhere, might as well watch and learn from the best.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well- I'm qualified to answer this question being new. So new that I popped in on a couple of matches but haven't shot yet. I might be in awe of the fast shooters, but I'm not intimidated at all since I don't look at them as competition. I know that I can't compete against them anyways, I'm in it for the fun. Maybe I'll compete against myself to try to improve on my previous times, but that's about as competetive as I plan to get. I used to drive myself crazy about my golf scores to the point where it wasn't fun anymore. I won't do that again. I'm just going to have fun and not worry about my times.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have actully seen on two different, occasions

 

older fellers, new to SASS, you can tell they will probably never be fast, by their size age and attitude when ya talk to them

they were both fully dressed cowboy, in brand new cas clothes, barley had the tags cut off their stuff

they stand there with on pistol, in a brand new holser watching

 

super fast stages were the order of the shoot set up both times

the top 4 local-docal shooters were all inder 20 seconds and clean, on every stage these fellers watched

 

I actually took the time to walk over and talk to both fellers, on both different occasions

to welcome them, and seeing they did not have two pistols, went down the road of offering

what ever they needed, if they would just come out and play

 

Neither of the two ever showed up at any of the local clubs again

 

and

NO

I did not scare them away, other shooters had spent time chattin with em to

 

now

I will admit

that is only two cases, and I have been watching watchers for many years now

I am just saying that

it can happen, under certain conditions

and I am not blaming top shooters at all

 

PS

I have seen on small group of three men, same deal as listed above

 

as usuall mileage will vary

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think the great shooters intimidate the new shooters. I find the great ones to be just like other SASS folks, friendly and welcoming to new people.

 

If anything I consider SASS to be unique in that new shooters have the privilege of shooting side by side with the champions on any given day. Can you imagine Lebron James playing basketball at the YMCA and letting kids play a game with him?

 

It won't happen with "King James", but I've shot on the same posse as Sage Chick, Two Sons, Lassiter, and a string of other top-flight competitors and never enjoyed anything but graciousness from any of our champions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

MM: but how do you know it was the speed and proficiency of those Top Shooters that made those prospective new shooters change their minds?

 

I was drawn into this game by a seasoned shooter, although he was relatively new to the game of CAS.

 

He attended 2 matches and stopped. Nope, it wasn't because of fast shooters, etc. He told me he didn't like big crowds. His prior perception of CAS was a handful of old timers using single action pistols and having a shooting contest. Once he realized the actual process of the game, he decided that he didn't want to stand around 4 hours on Saturday just to shoot about 3-4 minutes of actual trigger time. Yep, thats what he told me.

 

He was a retired LEO with service and combat in the Marines. He surely wasn't intimidated by fast shooters.

 

Anyhow, just wanted to add something from my personal experience also.

 

Hope you and yours have a MERRY CHRISTMAS.

 

 

..........Widder

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I do not promote cas as a shooting sport.

I promote it as a western social event with a shooting contest tossed in.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I have actully seen on two different, occasions

 

older fellers, new to SASS, you can tell they will probably never be fast, by their size age and attitude when ya talk to them

they were both fully dressed cowboy, in brand new cas clothes, barley had the tags cut off their stuff

they stand there with on pistol, in a brand new holser watching

 

super fast stages were the order of the shoot set up both times

the top 4 local-docal shooters were all inder 20 seconds and clean, on every stage these fellers watched

 

I actually took the time to walk over and talk to both fellers, on both different occasions

to welcome them, and seeing they did not have two pistols, went down the road of offering

what ever they needed, if they would just come out and play

 

Neither of the two ever showed up at any of the local clubs again

 

and

NO

I did not scare them away, other shooters had spent time chattin with em to

 

now

I will admit

that is only two cases, and I have been watching watchers for many years now

I am just saying that

it can happen, under certain conditions

and I am not blaming top shooters at all

 

PS

I have seen on small group of three men, same deal as listed above

 

as usuall mileage will vary

 

I bet they were run off by the pushy guy wanting to loan them another pistol. :unsure: Just kidding MM. Who knows what causes people not to come back? I've seen bunches of people come watch and never enter the sport. Typically if they show up, I'm going to talk to them...and likely offer them guns. Maybe I'm runnin' them off....but then you have folks like Barterin' Bill...who I talked to when he came to check out the game...who disappeared for a while...then came back, is shooting and participating on the Wire...even on this thread.

 

I think people decide not to participate for various reasons, not the least being that the sport requires a large investment in gear (guns, leather, clothes, reloader, lead, etc.) and is not cheap to participate in even after you have the gear. Personally, I think the men are intimidated by how handsome cowboys tend to be. After all, anybody who has ever seen a Roy Rogers movie knows that the cowboy allways gets the girl. :huh:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
MM: but how do you know it was the speed and proficiency of those Top Shooters that made those prospective new shooters change their minds?

 

 

Hope you and yours have a MERRY CHRISTMAS.

 

 

..........Widder

 

 

widder

 

I spent time talken with em

male ego is a strange thing

watching the top shooters for several stages shoot clean and under 20 seconds

they all made comments, like

"""geeeeese I cant even shoot one gun that fast"""

"golly, I will never be able to beat them guys"

no I cant prove it, that, that was the only reason

but it played a part,

 

no one has to agree with me

 

just open yer eyes, wen ya see new old guys watchen

take the madd mike test

talk with em, give em yer phone number and or email

see if they come back

the examples I state,

they had al:::::::l already bought clothes, 1 holster and one pistol

then talked about the super-human speed they saw

and they did not say, wow, I learned a lot, I cant wait

 

I mean no disrespect to fast shooters at all

they are very helpful to other shooters in most cases

they are a credit to the CAS game

they are a goal to set

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When ya shoot alongside champeens and duffers, watch as a feller or gal who only a year before had trouble finishing a stage in under a minute cleans up in the mid twenties, and the pard with the EOT belt buckle hoots and hollers and cheers for em, ya don't ask such questions.

 

When ya meet a former world champion for the first time and he says "I been wanting to meet YOU", it sets ya back a peg. NO intimidation, period. EVERY ONE OF US has something worth contributing to the game and even the top guys will appreciate it.

 

One more thing, no matter if a top shooter or niddle of the pack, find somebody who is enthusiastic and they share one thing important for a newbie. They love the game and infect everybody around em with the "disease".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

After decades of studying the shooting sports, I'd have to say yes, the sheer speed and ability of the top tier of shooters can be very intimidating to the newbie.

 

That's not the real question, though...the real question is how "sticky" is the sport overall for the newbie. That is, even given the intimidation factor of the top shooters, can the newbie see her- or himself fitting into the "culture" they see at the range? If the answer is "yes," they come back.

 

SASS does a magnificent job on the cultural side. Most of the shooting sports are graced with accessible, friendly and articulate champions. SASS, though, has a structure - the often maligned flood of classes - and a culture - all those funny clothes and hats - that allows a shooter to quickly fit in. It also allows the shooter time to see that he or she can run with the Big Dogs if he or she is willing to put in the same time and commitment as said Big Dogs.

 

Wolf Bane

sASS13557

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I bet they were run off by the pushy guy wanting to loan them another pistol. :unsure: Just kidding MM. Who knows what causes people not to come back? I've seen bunches of people come watch and never enter the sport. Typically if they show up, I'm going to talk to them...and likely offer them guns. Maybe I'm runnin' them off....but then you have folks like Barterin' Bill...who I talked to when he came to check out the game...who disappeared for a while...then came back, is shooting and participating on the Wire...even on this thread.

 

I think people decide not to participate for various reasons, not the least being that the sport requires a large investment in gear (guns, leather, clothes, reloader, lead, etc.) and is not cheap to participate in even after you have the gear. Personally, I think the men are intimidated by how handsome cowboys tend to be. After all, anybody who has ever seen a Roy Rogers movie knows that the cowboy allways gets the girl. :huh:

I was lucky that Uncle Frank has the rimfire shoot at our range. I disappeared from the club shoots, but didn't miss a rimfire shoot. I wanted to try it for a while before I started investing. I found a deal on a pair of pistols, had an old 20ga SXS and borrowed a rifle to start. Now I have my own rifle and have replaced the SXS with a 12ga scatter gun. I still bring my old 20ga, because I've seen some far targets at our shoots that my scattergun might have a hard time with. I really enjoy watching the fast shooters to see what I can learn from them. Last shoot I got my first 3rd place in catagory. True it was cold and not as many people showed up as usual, but I wasn't last like I was when I started. If there were not fast shooters, what would the rest of us strive for?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The truth of the matter is, no matter how accommodating we try to be, this game is not for everyone. Sure we try. We think as much as we love it surely if they try it everybody will want to do it. That's just not the case.

 

Mike, those folks you spoke of already had in mind what they thought this game is. When they came out for a look- see they found out they were wrong. That's all. All we can do is enjoy the game and help and encourage those who it does fit.

 

Possum (who loves new shooters)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think that the people that have come to the two clubs that I get the shoot with get to shoot with some fast shooter. I think that the new shooter clinic that Possum put on was the best thing for a new shooter.They watch the shoot and everyone talked to them and told them what was what, after the shoot Possum put on a very very nice clinic and told them what CAS and Sass was.When over all the safety stuff, they ask anything they wanted and then he took them to a stage and when over all that they needed to do and not do, Then he let them shoot if they wanted.I stayed for the new shooter clinic and I loved it.Two of the new shooters shot sunday at our shoot.It was great.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In my experience good shooters are just the opposite, they go out of there way to help new shooters and usually work the posse harder than most. And all that I have met in this sport are pards to ride the river with.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am one of the "teen stage' shooters, but am by far the fastest. It's guys like Santa Fe River Stan, Dang It Dan, Deadlee Headlee, and Arcadia Outlaw that have gotten me to the level that I am at. I can sometimes beat them on a stage, but I still love to watch them shoot. Watching a fast guy/gal shoot is so cool. To see someone really rip a stage, I love it! Watching and listening to these shooters has help me learn something new every time we have shot together. The fast shooters I know are the most helpful people I have met in SASS.

 

As for the new shooter, I make it a point to go up to the spectators and talk to them about our sport as do most I shoot with. With the newer shooters I ask it they would like a tip or two and 99% of the time they welcome the help. I give up the knowledge I have learned from the great shooters and hopefully the "new guy" will be up there with us. It's fun having the competition.

 

Ask anyone who knows me, I take my game very seriously! But I'm one of the most helpful to the new guys. If you get intimidated by just watching someone else shoot, maybe this game isn't for you.

 

and none of this has anything to do with the social aspect of the game.

 

 

My 2 cents

 

JEL

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Sheriff Pack Wolf, SASS #31917

The answer to the question /problem is rather simple.

 

With all the fast talkers here and the great well thought out responses they have posted ,..I am just too intimidated to continue and offer my solution. It may be just too silly to mention,..not profound at all.

 

I stand amoung giants in this discussion, and all I come up with is idiotic stammering,...with a few tears, as I well up with emotion. I expect someone to call me a Jack Wagon before long, and throw a box of tissue at me.

 

I guess I'll just shutup and forget about it.

 

Pack

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The truth of the matter is, no matter how accommodating we try to be, this game is not for everyone. Sure we try. We think as much as we love it surely if they try it everybody will want to do it. That's just not the case.

 

Mike, those folks you spoke of already had in mind what they thought this game is. When they came out for a look- see they found out they were wrong. That's all. All we can do is enjoy the game and help and encourage those who it does fit.

 

Possum (who loves new shooters)

 

I agree its not for all

 

I was mearly trying to point out

 

that it can be intim-a-dAteing to some

 

geeese

no harm

no foul

 

wolf bane said what I was trying to say,

ONLY he did it better cuz he has years of experience and actually done boe-E-fied studies

on the exact questions

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

OK, lets say it is happening. How do we fix it?

 

As a sport we were told that bigger and closer targets made it better for the average shooter to compete and new or bad shooters hit targets there for have more fun. I can remember when sass was growing at it's quickest pace the average pistol target was lets say 12"-14" square at 7-10 yrds. and rifle targets were the same size at 15-20 yrds. Slowly shooters wanted bigger and closer. Again more fun. Everyone loves to ring steel. Match directors were almost judged on how many clean shooters there were. So where did we go wrong? We definately made the targets easier to hit for the new shooter or the shooter that never gets to practice. So did anyone expect the top shooters not to shoot bigger and closer targets faster?

 

Oh my head hurts! I guess we just can't win.

 

You know if a club does get a couple new shooters per month and most of them don't come back again the club probably could find out why. Then take action. What action? I haven't a clue.

 

Right now it sounds like the typical sass wire post. A couple of pages of opinions and no facts.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Our club has several TOP shooters and personally I was and am excited to shoot with them. They are always willing to help me get faster and still have a lot of fun. It is also fun being there when a very fast shooter trips and falls down, gets up and still does the stage in less than 20 sec.

 

Street Howitzer

Horse Ridge Pistoleros

Bend, Or.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
OK, lets say it is happening. How do we fix it?

 

 

Right now it sounds like the typical sass wire post. A couple of pages of opinions and no facts.

 

 

I am not sure it needs fixin

 

just knowing it is possible

can be enough

 

that has ben my only po0int all along

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Howdy

 

not realy i know some top shooters knew them when they started watched them grow up or others build on there skills untill they got to the top ..

 

all of them more than willing to help out new shooters where they see people haveing probs

 

some days they may have there game face on and can be off hand at times every one has those days tho

 

if i had a good shoot and was placed last dose not matter i could eazly be in a possie and be whipped time after time i guess the same as a fella winning every time if i'm enjoying myself i'm happy ..

 

in some ways if a new guy turned up to a club and every one was sub 20 sec shooters and the new guy was out at 60 odd i think it depend on how the others reacted if they stayed in there wee group hi five and arse slaped each other i think it would be a lonely drive home BUT if they come over gave tips on how to improve that persons shooting tips and tricks to help there style help them with there guns etc

 

JD

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.