Are good shooters intimidating?

[Gateway Kid SASS# 70038 Life]

Did not want to hijack another thread but a reply or two from some of the better known shooters got me to thinking.

Does the sheer speed of some of the really good shooters drive off new shooters?

I know that with all the rules, the needed skill with different guns and the different levels of competitiveness amongst people SASS/CAS can be pretty overwhelming for a beginner.

But would seeing some of the top guns and their mastery of the sport drive off potential new shooters?

From my own viewpoint when I first started I thought about how cool it would be to "be like Mike!" and as a competitive person getting whomped only made me want to get better.

but I saw some posts where it looked like certain clubs/folks thought it would be better if the top guns "toned it down" a bit so the newbies wouldn't quit before they began.

 

Your thoughts?

 

Regards

 

 

Gateway Kid

[Grizzly Dave]

GK, you are so fast you scare the crap outta me.

 

 

Not to me they ain't, I like to watch them and marvel, same as watching a good musician or athlete, I know I'll never come close to their accomplishments but enjoy watching.

[Gateway Kid SASS# 70038 Life]

GK, you are so fast you scare the crap outta me.

 

Not to me they ain't, I like to watch them and marvel, same as watching a good musician or athlete, I know I'll never come close to their accomplishments but enjoy watching.

 

Now thats funny right there!

Really if you wanna go fast do what I do and bring your own hourglass!!

 

Regards

 

 

Gateway Kid

(who has finally graduated from a sundial)

[Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217]

Hi Kid!

 

I was so slow I was crawling at my first matches. I'm not fast now either. I loved watching the fast shooters then and now.

 

Regards,

 

Allie Mo

[San Fernando Slim, SASS #20521]

The top guns earned it mostly through practice. Just about all of them are always taking the time to notice something that a newbie could do to become a better shooter. I have seen top shooters follow a newbie to the unloading table and give him advice on how he could do a certain thing in a way that would shorten his time. All the one's that I know are always ready to help, not sit back and say look how good I am.

[Iron Pony]

Quite the opposite GK, at least up here. Usually the better the shooter the more willing they are to help out newbies and neophytes. Have had the pleasure to shoot with very good local and national shooters who always go out of their way to assist folks. Never run into the "I'm so good you should leave me alone" attitude.

[Gateway Kid SASS# 70038 Life]

Quite the opposite GK, at least up here. Usually the better the shooter the more willing they are to help out newbies and neophytes. Have had the pleasure to shoot with very good local and national shooters who always go out of their way to assist folks. Never run into the "I'm so good you should leave me alone" attitude.

 

Agreed + a bunch.

My experience has been that the good shooters tend to be the first to help. Course in SASS/CAS EVERYBODY I have met has been nice to me and to many others.

 

What I was really asking was if a new person came to a match and saw Bud, Deuce, Lead Dispenser or any of the many really good shooters, would simply seeing how good they are make the new person think to themselves "I could never do that" And if so should a top gun slow down in the interest of attracting new people to the game?

 

Regards

 

 

Gateway Kid

[Guest diablo slim shootist]

we started a green horn posse so they git to shoot with other new shooters

and we can help them become better cowboy shooters faster-for me i always

Marvell at the good shooters and wanted to be as good -gives them something

to strive for in the long run

[Marshal Chance Morgun]

What I was really asking was if a new person came to a match and saw Bud, Deuce, Lead Dispenser or any of the many really good shooters, would simply seeing how good they are make the new person think to themselves "I could never do that" ......some people might, small percentage I'd guess....... And if so should a top gun slow down in the interest of attracting new people to the game? No

Regards

 

 

Gateway Kid

 

I'd say how new shooters are treated is a bigger factor. That, and what a person is looking to get out of CAS in the first place.

[Assassin]

When I started I wanted to shoot just like the fast guys. Now I'd still like to be able to shoot like the fast guys. Never was intimidated, just wanted to get faster. Some shooters just want to get out, shoot, and have fun. Others would like to shoot better and have fun. Then there are those that just want to shoot better and don't seem to have as much fun. We usually have several pretty fast shooters on our posse and we still have alot of fun. No intimidation.

 

I'll be shooting ahead of Grizzly Dave when GK is around cause I don't want to step in any crap!

 

LL'

[Waimea]

What I was really asking was if a new person came to a match and saw Bud, Deuce, Lead Dispenser or any of the many really good shooters, would simply seeing how good they are make the new person think to themselves "I could never do that" And if so should a top gun slow down in the interest of attracting new people to the game?

 

Please, Lord, NO!!!

 

Let's not dumb down the population even more.

 

The problem with this type of logic is that there can never be anyone that truly excels in what they do because of the fear of hurting others feelings.

 

Well, I would try that but I'll never be that good so I'm not gonna try. <tear>

You can do it, Johnny. Just like Deuce. Just get up there and try.

But mommy Deuce might beat me. <many tears>

There, there Johnny. Mommy will buy you a nice new video game instead.

 

Give me a break.

 

Johnny NEEDS to get his butt kicked around the block a couple of times so that he doesn't grow up to be a momma's boy like so many of the so-called men out there today. Men that won't try something because they can't start out at the top. That's not being a man and SASS doesn't need "men" like that.

 

SASS needs men that will work hard to be the best they can be without regard to whether they can beat Deuce, Arcadia, Red River Ray or whoever the "fastest" is that week or year.

To me the best is the guy that's out there helping the new guys learn how to shoot safely and better than they did last time they were there. They help pick up the brass and watch the tables and man the timers.

 

And guess what, I've never seen one of the latest "fastest" guys ever shy away from the ordinary duties of the posse or helping out a new guy.

So fast guys: Keep on being fastest you can be and don't dumb down.

 

Waimea (still tryin' to be fast)

 

 

 

[Ricochet Roy, SASS #71853]

I couldn't say for sure, my first major match at The Cowboys I was on the same posse as Lead Dispenser. In all seriousness, Spencer made everyone feel at easy with with his sense of good humor, humility, and just favin' fun. For that reason to me Lead Dispense has always been a real champion of champions.

 

Roy

[Chief Rick]

What I was really asking was if a new person came to a match and saw Bud, Deuce, Lead Dispenser or any of the many really good shooters, would simply seeing how good they are make the new person think to themselves "I could never do that"

 

I don't believe so. I've shot with some really good, fast shooters. For every really good, fast shooter - I believe there are two or three average shooters. Right now I usually place in the middle to back 2/3's of the shoot - sometimes worse. A good shoot for me is when I place closer to the top 1/3.

 

A person that does anything in life thinking "I could never do that" - never will.

 

And if so should a top gun slow down in the interest of attracting new people to the game?

NEVER!

[Jefro, SASS#69420]

Quite the opposite GK, at least up here. Usually the better the shooter the more willing they are to help out newbies and neophytes. Have had the pleasure to shoot with very good local and national shooters who always go out of their way to assist folks. Never run into the "I'm so good you should leave me alone" attitude.

I agree, I've had the same experiance with the top guns. They always go out of thier way to help new shooters, and usually set a good example of work ethic for the posse. It's all good

 

Jefro

[Slick McClade]

I think the fast shooters make a new shooter want to do better and get faster. I know that at our club some of our better shooters usually make a point to talk to new shooters and the bystanders just watching. I know when I started shooting in SASS 5yrs ago, I loved watching the fast shooters, I set my mind to be as fast as they were. When I started shooting and my times was in the 40 + sec range, then as I practiced and talked with the fast shooters for a few months I started shooting in the 30's. A year or so I was in the 20's and man that was fun. Finally when I broke 20 that was the best feeling ever, and guess what the fast shooters were helping me and telling me how good I was doing the whole way. And now I find myself as being one of the "faster" shooters and I'm now helping the new shooters and talking to all the people watching and they are saying "Wow, I want to shoot that fast". We need all the different levels of shooters in this game thats what makes it so great. If you want to shoot 40 sec stages thats fine as long as your having fun, that the name of this game "Just have fun" no matter what speed you shoot.

 

I also think it's not the level of the shooter that intimidates the new shooter, it's some of the older shooters attitudes toward the new shooters. I have noticed several "New" members of SASS on the wire trying to ask questions to find out more about the game. On just about every post "Someone" is going to put the new shooter down or make a real rude comment. So before making a comment or a statement please think of the "new" shooter, because YOU once was a "New" shooter also.

 

Merry Christmas,

 

Slick "Who loves new shooters" McClade

[Possum Skinner, SASS#60697]

I think the fast shooters make a new shooter want to do better and get faster. I know that at our club some of our better shooters usually make a point to talk to new shooters and the bystanders just watching. I know when I started shooting in SASS 5yrs ago, I loved watching the fast shooters, I set my mind to be as fast as they were. When I started shooting and my times was in the 40 + sec range, then as I practiced and talked with the fast shooters for a few months I started shooting in the 30's. A year or so I was in the 20's and man that was fun. Finally when I broke 20 that was the best feeling ever, and guess what the fast shooters were helping me and telling me how good I was doing the whole way. And now I find myself as being one of the "faster" shooters and I'm now helping the new shooters and talking to all the people watching and they are saying "Wow, I want to shoot that fast". We need all the different levels of shooters in this game thats what makes it so great. If you want to shoot 40 sec stages thats fine as long as your having fun, that the name of this game "Just have fun" no matter what speed you shoot.

 

I also think it's not the level of the shooter that intimidates the new shooter, it's some of the older shooters attitudes toward the new shooters. I have noticed several "New" members of SASS on the wire trying to ask questions to find out more about the game. On just about every post "Someone" is going to put the new shooter down or make a real rude comment. So before making a comment or a statement please think of the "new" shooter, because YOU once was a "New" shooter also.

 

Merry Christmas,

 

Slick "Who loves new shooters" McClade

 

Yep, yep, yep, yep and yep!

 

I don't think it could be said better.

 

Possum

[Adirondack Jack, SASS #53440]

Did not want to hijack another thread but a reply or two from some of the better known shooters got me to thinking.

Does the sheer speed of some of the really good shooters drive off new shooters?

I know that with all the rules, the needed skill with different guns and the different levels of competitiveness amongst people SASS/CAS can be pretty overwhelming for a beginner.

But would seeing some of the top guns and their mastery of the sport drive off potential new shooters?

From my own viewpoint when I first started I thought about how cool it would be to "be like Mike!" and as a competitive person getting whomped only made me want to get better.

but I saw some posts where it looked like certain clubs/folks thought it would be better if the top guns "toned it down" a bit so the newbies wouldn't quit before they began.

 

Your thoughts?

 

Regards

 

 

Gateway Kid

 

In a different shooting format it might, but in SASS I think absolutely not.

 

In some sports you have classes or brackets that shoot among the members of the class, and the newbie never shoots alongside the hotshots.

 

In CAS, ya shoot and work alongside the best and the worst, old, young, fast slow, goofy, and serious, all together.

 

What I see time and again is the best shooters out there will go out of their way to offer tips and all manner of help to the newbie or mid-pack shooter aspiring to advance. If ya find a TOP shooter who wasn't once the protege of another top shooter, and who doesn't take it upon his or her self to bring along any and all who want help, you let me know, cuz I have not seen one yet.

 

What's more, shooting alongside, and getting to know the best there is teaches the newbie that they are JUST LIKE YOU, only they work harder at the game. You too can be a lot faster than ya are,, etc. They ain't "gods".....

 

Oh, lemme add, often times you can learn from not only the fastest, but also the most observant shooters around. Pards who for whatever reason might not be setting the world afire with their scores can help a new guy or anyone wanting to learn to disect their game and improve on little things here and there simply because they are good at watching people and figuring out what works and what don't, even if they don't always take the time themselves to be real quick. There are lots of ways to "win" in CAS, and one of the most fun is to watch, learn to understand, and celebrate the talent around ya. You'll be part fan, part student, and part teacher all at once if ya simply LOVE THE GAME.

[Cheyenne Culpepper 32827]

yup, whut slick sed!

 

CC

[Pit Bull Tex]

I love to see them shoot. I would watch them shoot even if I could not shoot.I learn from Possum when I watch him. I learn from Gator and from all the ones I shoot with. If I shot with just people my speed I dont think I would shoot.There would be nothing to work for.

[Creeker, SASS #43022]

Not as odd of a question as you may think.

We have a very well known local shooter that has advocated doing away with big, close, fast stages because new shooters seeing 16 second stages will be intimidated and scared away.

 

Judging yourself against another is only meaningful, when the person you're comparing yourself to does their best.

[Pit Bull Tex]

I shoot against myself every time I shoot. I use the fast and smooth shooters to learn from.There is alot more to learn than I first thought. So every time I get to see the fast ones shoot I see what I can learn, the little things I see that make me do better.

[Cliff Hanger #3720LR]

I do not think "fast" shooters intimidate new shooters. I think they draw them in with how easy they make it all look from the outside.

 

What I have observed at some of the new shooter training classes over the years may turn more shooters away than any fast shooter.

 

The instructors of these classes are themselves usually very good shooters and get around the game very well. However during the course of the introducing new shooters to the game some instructors tend to start sounding like a sales pitch man for all the "Needed" action jobs by this or that gunsmith. They make it sound like if you don't get this action work done they can't be competitive.

 

If the new to cas shooter is over whelmed by all the instructions on all the different guns available, how to get through stages, how to stage their guns, how to turn and not break the 170 plane and how to shoot target orders adding that they need to have work done on all their new guns that will cost them a pretty penny may intimidate them far more than any top gun shooting fast.

 

Yes, action work may make your guns work easier and more reliable. And yes the instruction can cover action work comparisons to stock guns as long as it's not pushed as required to get in to the game. The shooter is in the training class because they are new to cas. Don't overwhelm them with too much information. Help them be safe at this new game to them and get them coming back. The rest will take care of it's self as they learn the game by being involved.

[Red Rider Rudy]

For me my first couple of matches were a little intimidating. But after shooting a few more matches and getting to know everyone that feeling went away. Like others have said

they watch the New Guy and gladly will come over and give advise. As for myself i had a lot of help from everyone, also had a Good Mentor. Its not quite two years yet that i have

been shooting. Feels good to be in the high 20's to low to mid 30's. Until the guy after you shoots in the teens? But have made a lot of new friends in a short time.

 

What a GREAT SPORT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

 

R.R.R.

[Jack Houston # 35508]

Used to, but I've been shootin' with T-Bone and Nuttin' among others for the last 8+ years, it just helps you to learn how to be better!!

[Madd Mike #8595]

Not as odd of a question as you may think.

We have a very well known local shooter that has advocated doing away with big, close, fast stages because new shooters seeing 16 second stages will be intimidated and scared away.

 

Judging yourself against another is only meaningful, when the person you're comparing yourself to does their best.

 

yup

I think it can happen

 

did not never say, how often

and I aint never said

DO AWAY WITH BIG, CLOSE AND FAST STAGES

just said mixing things up a bit may be better

 

see

I took yer bait

 

ps

seeing 16 second stages cAN be intimidated

2 a (more laid back) potential shooter, watching stage after stage after stage

being done, faster than they can shoot one gun out of four????????

its possible

 

creeker

 

rememer what you told me at the convention

you will not talk to me any more (wire or otherwise)

[Widder, SASS #59054]

For the most part, I think its not intimidating for the new shooter.

 

There are those instances where a new shooter (and sometimes seasoned shooter) has 'heard' of the reputation of a speed shooter and has anxiously been looking forward to shooting with such individual. Once the moment arrives, there is some over anxieties that tend to make em nervous.

 

I was at a match where a relatively new shooter had been looking forward to shooting with a reputable speed shooter. That 'speed shooter' was also sharing the TO duties that day and when the 'new shooter' stepped to the line, he got alittle over nervous because his idol was the TO and it did intimidate him alittle. The speed shootin TO took the time to share a comforting smile and kind word to the newer shooter and then handed the timer off to someone else to help that newer shooter relax alittle bit.

 

On a humorous note: If ya really want to know what intimidation is, get into a speed pistol side match with Bad River Marty, Deuce or Lassiter.

Or a SG side match with Lassiter or Colt McAllister and just when you think you've pulled even with them, up walks Sage Chick and whoops up on everybody.

Or run a sub 3 speed rifle run from port arms just to watch it dimenish in the rankings as others step up during the day. YIKES!

 

Just my .02

 

 

..........Widder

[Poppy]

As a new shooter attending my first match I was in awe of the faster shooters, but they made me feel comfortable and were willing to teach me and give tips. Now I watch and learn. I cannot speak for all clubs but I truly believe it is the same as my home club where I can promise new shooters will not feel bad (Ten Horns in Greenville TX.)

[Widder, SASS #59054]

Not as odd of a question as you may think.

We have a very well known local shooter that has advocated doing away with big, close, fast stages because new shooters seeing 16 second stages will be intimidated and scared away.

 

Judging yourself against another is only meaningful, when the person you're comparing yourself to does their best.

 

 

 

Now you got me thinkin and I'm curious (OH NO!)

 

just how small and far away does it take to keep some top guns from shooting 16 second stages? Shucks, when the likes of Bud, Deuce and a couple dozen others can go to WR or EOT and average 15 seconds on those stages that are set up 'FOR EVERYONE's ENJOYMENT', then if you put things in proper perspective, a 16 second stage might actually be a slooooow time for some of those fellers.

 

Soooooo, just how far and away do the targets have to be set to slow those top shooters down?

I'd hate to imagine.

 

Interesting.

 

Remember, it is 'Entertainment'. That's what helps keep this sport/game alive.

 

 

..........Widder

[ShadowCatcher]

Did not want to hijack another thread but a reply or two from some of the better known shooters got me to thinking.

<SNIP>

but I saw some posts where it looked like certain clubs/folks thought it would be better if the top guns "toned it down" a bit so the newbies wouldn't quit before they began.

 

Your thoughts?

 

Regards

 

 

Gateway Kid

Interesting question.

 

Depends on why you play I guess.

 

If you came to play - and saw what it takes to win - you either think - "I can do that" and set out to do so,

or you conclude "I can't do that" and so you don't.

 

If you came out to play, and saw that kind of display and said - "I'm playing - but I'd like to play more like that"

than otherwise, you might want to improve, or you might think - "I'm playing - but I'll just play to have fun" . . .

 

It all depends on what you bring with you to the game - not on what others show you . . . and anyone who suggests that

a good player slow down or show less of his skill for fear of intimidating the other players is flat wrong - and how dare

they ever suggest that anyone ever be less than what they are . . . .

 

Always be what you are - if you can't be honest in this game - then get out . . . .

 

my $0.02 worth

 

Shadow Catcher

[Creeker, SASS #43022]

creeker

 

rememer what you told me at the convention

you will not talk to me any more (wire or otherwise)

 

PM sent - no need on a public forum

[Cliff Hanger #3720LR]

What I think makes a new shooter not walk away after seeing the fast shooters do their best is seeing the rest of us mere mortals on the same posse shoot with times that range from top to bottom of the speed list.

 

And if you remind the new shooter, "We all were new shooter at some time." this will usually bring a smile to their face.

 

Just hit targets....Speed will come with experience. ....... How much depends on the shooter's ability and time invested. But that's down the road for new shooter.

[Captain Woodrow Cahill, SASS # 54363]

You boys play nice!

 

OK ... should good and fast shooters tone it down? That's like asking Eric Clapton to hit a few sour notes.

 

A good shooter can serve as a model and an inspiration to a new shooter. By focusing on the how of what they're doing and not what they're doing it with, a novice can learn a great deal. Equipment helps, but a champion can do well no matter what. Babe Ruth used the same piece of ash as everybody else - no short stroked lightened spring lowered hammer whatsit - and became a legend. I contend that a good shooter could use a box-stock gun and still whip 99% of the competition. Why? Ability, motivation, and practice. Same as any other endeavour.

 

Lassiter, Evil Roy, Holy Terror, Sage Chick ... all of them are in the pantheon of SASS Champions because they worked at it. To ask any of them to tone it down a bit would be an unforgiveable insult.

 

I'm sure some new shooters get the impression that they have to invest as much in slick-up jobs as they did in their guns to be good. Nonsense. There is no magic action job that will win you 1st Place at EOT. Anybody with reasonable hand-eye coordination can be good. To be better or the best involves work. That means practice, and learning from the masters of the game. Instead of an action job, invest in one of Evil Roy's instructional DVD's - you'll be better off for it.

 

Watch, listen, and learn, Grasshopper.

[Guest Paniolo Cowboy SASS #75875]

Agreed + a bunch.

My experience has been that the good shooters tend to be the first to help. Course in SASS/CAS EVERYBODY I have met has been nice to me and to many others.

 

What I was really asking was if a new person came to a match and saw Bud, Deuce, Lead Dispenser or any of the many really good shooters, would simply seeing how good they are make the new person think to themselves "I could never do that" And if so should a top gun slow down in the interest of attracting new people to the game?

 

Regards

 

 

Gateway Kid

 

Gateway pard,

 

That's a really good question.

 

It's just my opinion, but for me, yes I can see how a new person can watch Bud or any of the many really good shooters and simply seeing how good they are think to themselves "I could never do that".

 

Heck, it happened to me the first time I shot a match. I wasn't "intimidated" but I was certainly impressed. No kidding, I first thought, "Wow, some of these guys are making Single Actions function like Semi-Autos. Heck, though I had been around small arms and light weapons most of my life, it was a real reality check.

 

That was the moment that I had to ask myself the question that our pard Shadow Catcher was talking about. I had to ask myself, "Why do I want to join Cowboy Action Shooting?"

 

Is it for the "competition" aspect of the sport? Or am I more interested in it for the camraderie, the like minded people, the time period, the dress, and of course the guns and the shooting?

 

I took a look around at how everyone got along so well and how everyone was so helpful. I saw fast guns helping do stage chores just like everyone else. Everyone was regular folks all having fun on all sorts of levels. It was great.

 

So the question then became "Can I shoot in SASS as slow as I am? Can I just shoot my own game and let others shoot theirs? Can I join SASS just for the shooting and fun?

 

Well that was answered in two ways, first everyone on the posse that I was on kept telling me to just relax and have fun and not try to shoot as fast as shooters who've been at this much longer (and who may be 30 years younger). And second, though I knew that I could never shoot like Bud, I found out that Bud's a great guy and that it don't matter to him if I'm slow as molasses.

 

So I stayed with it always wanting to better my time, and maybe even shoot the complicated stages without a "P". And now, now I'm in love with "the game" because to me "the game" is the people we shoot with.

 

So that was the long answer to the first question, and as to your second question "should a top gun slow down in the interest of attracting new people to the game?"

 

Absolutely not.

 

It takes a lot of practice, dedication, and commitment to shoot like Bud, and Deuce, and Lead Dispenser and the other really good shooters.

 

They are no different than the Champions in other sports. They show others that there is no limit to what they too can achieve. They inspire and they foster hope. And just like other Champions, they relate and help others.

 

A new shooter might not be "intimidated" more then they can't help but be impressed, and that in itself can also make alot of people that much more encouraged to shoot CAS and stick with it.

 

 

To you and yours, Merry Christmas.

 

[Grumpy Old Man]

I joined SASS fro the shootin, the fun and the people. Never was intimidated by the likes of Lassiter, Colt Mcalister, Sage Chick, etal, but am in complete AWE of them. They are fantastic people, and I understand what it i\takes to get to their level,. It comes down to that P thing.

[Ktown Kid]

not at all, im blessed to being "learned" by some of the best shooters...like others started in 40's, then 30's and now i ocasionally crack off an upper 20's...and the very fast shooters always give me advise (less now than when i started, but it is even MORE relivant because of the level im at)...

 

In our area, there are NO fast shooters that "snub" anyone, better to say they "embrace" new shooters...

 

As for thier skills and speed...I only droul and "WILL" catch up to them someday!