Uberti Lightning Rifle question

[Jackpine Bill]

Hello the Fire,

 

Just picked up a new Uberti Lightning. (yeah, I know lots of folks have trouble with all the Lightning clones, but I just like pumps and think the are so cool, so you don't need to tell me what all the other problems are with them!) It is 357, not CCH. Uberti has added a what they call a Safety Link which blocks the hammer from falling when the action is open. This one engages about half the time. It is meant to be pulled forward by the hook on the front end engaging a recess in the forearm action bar. There is nothing to push the hook into the action bar notch. It just seems to depend on close tolerance and this one is obviously under. I think even if it worked, it would eventually wear down.

 

I will call my dealer tomorrow and he will probably get me a new bar or trade rifles, but I would like to know what experience someone smarter than me has had. Whether it works or not, I am tempted to simply remove it for CAS use. None of the original Lightnings had these and I would assume this part was designed by the company legal council. However, I do want to be able to put it back in if I ever decide to sell it.

 

Thanks to anyone with knowlege of this issue.

 

Jackpine Bill

[Coyote Kid, SASS#54714]

Hello Bill,

Welcome to the unique group of "I love my Lightning" folks.

With any kind of luck, Deadeye Dallas will respond to your question.

If it can be done with a Lightning , he's the "go to " guy for the fix.

I to have read all the reasons to not have a pump, but dang if they're not just a bunch of fun to play with.

Search for the previous threads on Taurus Challenge or Deadeye Dallas to see information posted so far.

Happy Trails, Coyote Kid

[Jackpine Bill]

Thanks for the encouragment Kid.

 

I have searched for info on the Safety Link and haven't found anything. Had a couple of Taurus a few years back. My memory is really bad, but don't think they had the link.

 

Will be gone for most of the day, but hopefully by the time I get back, will hear from Dallas.

 

Jackpine

[Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933]

If you are talking about the device on the right side of the frame it is a trigger blocking device. It is supposed to keep you from pulling the trigger until the action is fully closed. The front hooked part should be bent slightly inward and when the upper half of the receiver is installed it bears on the rear flat portion of the safety bar. It has a small spring in it that pushes the bar rearward so it will go back under the trigger after you release it before the next shot. The pump has to be all the way forward to release the bar and then you have to release the trigger completely for it to reset. Not the ideal setup for CAS. Sometimes the upper receiver fit is a little loose and if the right side receiver screw gets loose the bar will lose tension and not engage all the time. Another problem with some is that if the trigger is pulled all the way to the rear and you try to pump it before releasing the trigger you can't pull the pump back. What happens is the trigger can tilt far enough so that two projections on the back of the trigger can actually come up behind the bottom of the hammer and keep the hammer from moving until the trigger has been released. Again, not great for CAS. These two little items working together can really slow down your times.

 

P.S. Since the safety link is inside the gun and not visible, how do you know it is not working?

[Jackpine Bill]

If you are talking about the device on the right side of the frame it is a trigger blocking device. It is supposed to keep you from pulling the trigger until the action is fully closed. The front hooked part should be bent slightly inward and when the upper half of the receiver is installed it bears on the rear flat portion of the safety bar. It has a small spring in it that pushes the bar rearward so it will go back under the trigger after you release it before the next shot. The pump has to be all the way forward to release the bar and then you have to release the trigger completely for it to reset. Not the ideal setup for CAS. Sometimes the upper receiver fit is a little loose and if the right side receiver screw gets loose the bar will lose tension and not engage all the time. Another problem with some is that if the trigger is pulled all the way to the rear and you try to pump it before releasing the trigger you can't pull the pump back. What happens is the trigger can tilt far enough so that two projections on the back of the trigger can actually come up behind the bottom of the hammer and keep the hammer from moving until the trigger has been released. Again, not great for CAS. These two little items working together can really slow down your times.

 

P.S. Since the safety link is inside the gun and not visible, how do you know it is not working?

 

Larsen,

 

You are correct and have basically restated what I said in my initial post. The little bar is called a "Safety Link" according to the parts schematic. I said it blocks the hammer from falling. It is probably more correct to say it blocks the trigger. Either way, the purpose is to prevent the rifle from firing when the action is not fully closed.

 

I know this is the problem because I have removed the trigger plate and can observe the operation. The spring loaded plunger pushes the Link to the rear to block the trigger, but there is nothing to push the hook into the notch where it catches the action bar, which pulls it out of the way of the trigger. The receiver housing does not push the Link in, but simply keeps it from moving out of the cutout, so if thet distance between the outside of the link and the point of the hook is too short, by just a few thousands, which mine is, it will not catch, or in my case, will catch about half the time.

 

In addition, it appears that if I did not have this problem now, I would eventually. When you open the action and the hook disengages the notch of the action bar, allowing the Link to move to the rear blocking the trigger, the knife edge of the hook bears against the area of the action bar ahead of the notch which catches the hook. Because it is such a thin edge and the tolerance seems to be so small, it seems it would eventually wear down the hook and the problem would occur. This is just my assumption, and may not actually ever happen, if you start out with a Link with the proper dimenstion.

 

I have figured out one way I can fix it, other than just replacing the hook, but am asking if anyone has had actual experience with this, and how they solved the problem.

 

Thanks,

 

Jackpine

[Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933]

The forward part of the link is a spring. It should be bent slightly inward toward the slide. When the upper receiver is in place it anchors the rear flat part of the spring. There is nothing to anchor the spring when the upper receiver is removed and it won't work correctly with the upper receiver moved. That is why I asked how you know it isn't working. You can put your finger right where the bend is and push on the link when the upper receiver is removed. (In the second photo that would be right where the blue rear flat part of the link turns to the polished forward part of the link.) It should then work unless the bend is not steep enough. The forward hook part of the link is always under spring pressure and rides up the ramp at the forward edge of the cutout in the pump slide and then down the side of the slide when it is going rearward. When its going forward it will follow the ramp back down (since it is itself a spring) and engage the hook cutout in the slide. It should engage the full depth of the cutout. The tip of the hook is very sharp, I take a stone and just dull that edge. Makes its movement down the side of the slide smoother. I would take it out, completely assemble the gun and and cycle the gun to see if something else isn't causing or contributing to the problem. If you are sure it is a problem with hook engagement, bend it a little.

 

 

 

http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee241/p...r1/P1020766.jpg

http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee241/p...r1/P1020863.jpg

[Deadeye Dallas, SASS #60249]

Sounds Like Larsen has got it covered.

You are right the Taurus doesn't have it. Also AWA, USFA and Colt are without it, and can all slam fire.

Good luck with your repair.

 

Dallas

[Jackpine Bill]

Larsen,

 

Thanks for attaching the pictures. They told me a lot. I think I see where my problem is.

 

Two questions.

 

The link in the picture of the trigger plate shows the forward two/thirds of the link rounded on the outside. The picture of just the Link looks like the full length of the outside surface is flat, but I cannot tell for sure from the picture. Mine is totally flat for the entire length. Did yours come rounded from the factory or was this done after? If done after, what is the reason for this.

 

Second, my link has almost no bend. If I lay it with the outside on a flat surface, with the end with the leg that blocks the hammer against the flat surface, the end with the hook is raised only .015 inch off the flat surface. About how much deflection does yours have. The depth of my hook end from the outside to the knife edge point is .060 in. Does that match yours?

 

(in all of the above, when I am talking about the "outside" surface, I am referring the the surface that faces away from the trigger plate and bear against the inside of the receiver housing.)

 

thanks again for your help,

 

Jackpine

[Jackpine Bill]

Larsen and Dallas,

 

I got interupted while doing my post to Larsen's post and Dallas, your post came thru during that period. One mor question for both of you. For Cowboy shooting, it seems that the smart thing to do is simply remove the link. Am I wrong in thinking that this is exactly the way the originals were built? Is there a practical downside to this.

 

Also, Dallas, do you have any comment on the questions I posed to Larsen,

 

Thanks to both for replies,

 

Jackpine

[shenny]

Shame you did not take Elrod's class at the Convention on the Lightning rifles. He rates the AWA at the top of the heap, followed by Colts and then all of the rest. Taurua does not even rate.

[Deadeye Dallas, SASS #60249]

Larsen and Dallas,

 

I got interupted while doing my post to Larsen's post and Dallas, your post came thru during that period. One mor question for both of you. For Cowboy shooting, it seems that the smart thing to do is simply remove the link. Am I wrong in thinking that this is exactly the way the originals were built? Is there a practical downside to this.

 

Also, Dallas, do you have any comment on the questions I posed to Larsen,

 

Thanks to both for replies,

 

Jackpine

Jackpine,

Down my way I haven't seen any Uberti Lightnings, and just a few Berettas. Coyote Kid's Beretta was the first one I work on and I was able to fix his problem. But to say removing parts on a design that is different from the original Colt, could cause other problems. I would have to have a Uberti in front of me to see if the safety lockouts could be defeated

Most of my work has been on AWA, USFA, and now a lot of Taurus. Shenny, I predict the value of the old Tomato stake is about to go up.

 

Dallas

[Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933]

The link is a spring. I tune and polish all springs when I am setting up a gun for competition. That's why it is contoured and polished. The tip of the hook is .200" off the plate in this photo. The link on the gun I am presently tuning no longer blocks the trigger. In fact, I am using it for a different purpose as an experiment. Mine has been adapted to slam fire and is probably the smoothest Lightning style rifle I am shooting. (I have ten, including five originals.) This required a complete overhaul of many of the internal parts. Unfortunately, some of the other parts in the gun can't stand the hammering of slam firing so I am experimenting with fixes to take the stress off the weak parts.

 

 

 

http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee241/p...r1/P1020975.jpg

[Jackpine Bill]

I think I am headed in the right direction now. I am in Minnesota and the daily high temp forecase for the next week is 20 degrees and lots of snow, so I won't get to actually shoot this for a while, but I can an least get it operational.

 

I will be headed for Arizona shortly after Christmas, so will give it a good workout there. Larsen, maybe I will cross wires with you somewhere and pick your brain a little more, if you are willing.

 

Thanks for all the help,

 

Jackpine