Maintenance during a BP match..

[Blacky Montana SASS # 19953]

Hey Pards,

 

I'm just curious as to what kind of cleaning or maintenance you BP shooters do to your rifles "DURING" a match. A couple of weeks ago I went to a BPCR shoot at my local range, and I was taking note of the different procedures the different shooters did to their rifles during the match. Of course all the guys were shooting single shot .45-70 Sharps, Rolling Blocks, and Trapdoors, but BP is BP. I will be shooting with these guys New Years day using my Marlin 1895, and I'm trying to get a idea of what kind of habits I need to get into during the actual match. Here is a couple examples of what I mean. One of the guys used a "blow tube" after every shot during the match, but didn't do any type of "swabbing the bore' until the match was over. As it was, he turned out to have the highest score of the day. Another shooter seemed to run a patch through his bore after every 3 to 5 shots, but I never noticed him using a blow tube. Not sure if his patch was dry, spit patch, or any other type of solvent. Another shooter seemed to combine the two. He used a blow tube maybe every other shot, and ran a patch through his bore after each stage. With him I do believe his patch was dry. Ok pards, what kind of maintenance do you recommend I do to my Marlin during the match. This will be my first .45-70 BP match, so I'm a bit of a rookie on this one. All my BP shooting prior to this has been with my muzzleloaders.

 

Thanks,

Blacky

#19956

[Madd Mike #8595]

• I run one patch with moose milk on it
  down my rifle barrel after each stage
  
• I wipe the front face of my pistol cylinders about every 4 or 5 stages (head spaceing fowling)
  

 

pretty simple to do

[Crazy Mingo]

Heee Haaa Blacky.. ya might want ta try The Open Range site

 

Hee Haaa Crazy Mingo

[Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283]

Howdy

 

A lot of it depends on your bullets. And a lot depends on the type of rifle.

 

I have never attended a true BPCR match, but I have attended plenty of non-sanctioned long range Black Powder matches. The most common procedure I have seen, and done, is the blow tube between shots. Just the blow tube, no swabbing. The idea is to keep the fouling soft by blowing the moisture laden breath from our lungs down the bore. Most of us made up a blow tube using an empty shell with a plastic tube fitted to it. Some of my friends were very methodical about it, always blowing the same amount of long breaths through the tube, so the fouling would always be of the same consistency. I think three long breaths was pretty normal.

 

Of course this was done with single shots. It is a lot simpler to insert a dummy round with a blow tube into a Sharps or Rolling Block, or a High Wall than it is into a side ejecting levergun like a Marlin. Also, timing was not an issue, you could take as long as you wanted to shoot. This was also done using traditional bullet designs, none of the modern Big Lube designs. These bullets carry enough lube to keep the fouling reasonably soft, but it was felt that a few breaths would help.

 

Can't advise you on what to do with a lever gun.

 

What you really should do is go to the range before the match and try a bunch of different options, and see what works best for you.

 

But you already knew that didn't you?

 

P.S. As far as a regular Cowboy match goes, I never do any cleaning or anything to my guns during the match. Big lube bullets and plenty of SPG keeps them rolling all day long with no problems. Except my 1858 Remmies. They bind up at the drop of a hat and need the cylinder faces wiped off after every stage.

[Smokie, SASS # 6061]

Welcome to the dark side. I shoot BPCR as well as the Frontier's class with black. I run a wet (water) patch between ea shot at BPCR. Some blow tube as I did previously. The best advice is to see what your rifle likes. Take the number of rounds to the range that you would shoot at a match and see what gives the best accuracy for your gun.

Smokie

[Blacky Montana SASS # 19953]

Hey Mingo,

 

Ya left me hanging...kinda...lol. Where and what is the "Open Range" site, and where do i find it....lol.

 

Thanks Pard,

Blacky

[Prairie Dawg, SASS #50329]

Here is a link to the open range Darksider forum.

open range

 

As Driftwood says, use big lube boolits and you can shoot maintainance-free for a whole match.

I do it every week.

44-40 rifle & Colt style cap guns, Ruger Old Armies, & 45 Colt cartridge pistols is what I shoot.

 

--Dawg

[Jefro, SASS#69420]

Again what DJ said. If you use Big Lube bullets there is no need to do anything during a CAS match. I might wipe the cylinder face on my revolvers once during a match and spray a little moose milk on the base pin bushing. I have shot a 12 stage state match with nothing but a spray and wipe of Ballistol after day one, no disassembly just a spray down the bores and wipe down the outside. BPCR is a whole different animal. Good Luck

http://www.bpcr.net/forum/

 

 

Jefro

[Blacky Montana SASS # 19953]

Well for the record, until I can start reloading BP myself, this first match I will be shooting Goex Black Dawge .45-70 405gr RNFP. I do know that their bullets are lubbed with SPG. I hope to soon be reloading for myself, but for now Ill be using Black Dawge.

 

Thanks,

Blacky

[Blacky Montana SASS # 19953]

Jefro,

 

Thanks for posting the link to BPCR.net, but I've give up trying to join that site. Trying to join that forum has been a constant aggravation for going on close to a month. I went trough the initial process of filling out the registration, and i even received my first email from BPCR.net. In that email it thanked me for joining, told me my user name and password were registered, and told me that I would be receiving another email after the administrator activated my account. That was almost a month ago. I've not received anything since. I've even sent a email to the BPCR webmaster explaining the circumstances, and asking for help in finishing my registration. I've not received anything from the webmaster either. This is exactly why I am having to ask my BPCR questions here at the SASS WIRE. Our SASS site is obviously much more friendly than the BPCR site. I hate being IGNORED.......

 

Thanks,

Blacky

[Ranger Sgt. Jake McCandless #3368]

Blacky You might find some useful information here http://www.shilohrifle.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=16451 http://www.shilohrifle.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=16425 This may give you some help. Adios Sgt. Jake

[Mad Dog Jack, SASS #77862]

I monitor (lurk) the BPCR.net site, post occasionally on the Shiloh forums, a very useful site for single shot BP shooting. But a lot to learn there. My 76 is a 45-60 that I shoot BP in. 10 shots or so no problem, any more than that I run a patch or two with a Ballistol/water (mousemilk) mix through the barrel. Somewhat dependent on where you are shooting, the difference in local humidity can make a difference I've heard on the Shilo site. Most of my long range shooting is pretty low humidity. My CAS guns need a squirt of Ballistol every 3 stages or so to keep going even with Big Lube bullets, but I shoot 45 cal, with all the blowback associated with the caliber, YMMV.

[Jefro, SASS#69420]

Jefro,

Thanks for posting the link to BPCR.net, but I've give up trying to join that site.

Thanks,

Blacky

Sorry to hear that Blacky, check with John Boy at The Open Range, he's really into the BPCR.

Good Luck

The Open Range

 

Jefro

[Iron Horse]

For long range, which is what it sounds like you are talking about, I shoot a 45-90 high wall single shot and an 1886 Winchester in 45-70 in lever competition. For the single shot I use a blow tub after each shot when accuracy is the main factor and just go for the whole string without the blow tub if time is involved. The lever gun gets cleaned at the end of the day. I do use bullets with lots of black powder lube.

 

If you are talking about a regular cowboy match then I can do 10 stages over the course of a day without doing anything to my guns.

[Muddy Creek Sam, SASS# 78004]

Check out the BPCR section of the Cast Boolits site at http://castboolits.gunloads.com/forumdisplay.php?f=30.

 

Sam

[Castalia,SASS#18915]

I have shot a Marlin 1895 in 45/70 that I single loaded for our monthly match. I made a blow tube from some plastic tubing and a funnel. I insert it into the breach and blow to soften the fouling. With a full case of black powder the case will seal very well and you will not get a lot of blow back into the action.

 

If you eject very forcefully the ejected case will suck some of the unburnt powder back into the chamber and the action. I try to eject slowly and concentrate on sights and trigger control for accuracy and time. Unburnt powder grains in the chamber will cause difficuly loading and I believe accuracy problems. As well as hard extraction.

 

Our match has 10 shots fired for time and hits on a steel silhouettes at 200-1000meters. The Marlin 1895 is a light rifle and your shoulder will take a beating. I have one or the lace on butt pads for comfort.

 

Of more importance is the bullet weight and lube. Also from personal experience I have found that the bullet should be seated in the case to just touch the rifling so there is not a lot of jump out of the case to the rifled bore. This problem is not to bad in the Marlin 45/70 as it is in the Marlin 38-55. The 38-55 has long chambers for old ammo and all the new brass is short.

 

All of the web sites mentioned have a wealth of information.

 

Good luck and enjoy, Castalia

[Dalton Masterson, SASS #51139]

I also recommend Big Lube bullets. I can shoot a 2 day match with mine, with nothing more than wiping down the cylinder pins and cylinder face at the end of the day.

Depending on the humidity, I might need to give a squirt of moose milk to one of my pistols that hangs a little, but otherwise I dont swab nothing.

 

You might check out the cascity.com forums too. Check the Darksiders Den and the Buffalo rifle spot too.

DM

[Lou Graham, # 26112]

Don't have high expectations your first BPCR match. It takes a LOT of experimentation, changing one thing at a time to get a group you are happy with. Different types of powder prepared in different ways, different brands of cases, different OAL, different bullet designs, different methods of gun prep and maintainance, that's just a begining.......

 

It takes patience and good note-taking to do this kind of shooting. Do take notes so you don't re-do a prior mistake. (Ask me how I learned that!)

 

It's very different from shooting BP at a CAS match. Just fill 'em up and jam on a bullet. Go shoot. Clean when you get home.

[Jasper Agate]

Blacky,

I’ve shot numerous BP long range lever gun gong type matches and always had time to blow tube between shots. I have a 45 degree elbow on the end of the blow tube for easy insertion into the action. 3 to 5 deep slow breaths keeps the fouling soft until the end of the relay. I don’t run a cleaning rod between relays unless foulers or sighters are allowed between relays. Cleaning will change your point of impact on your first shot. I prefer to blow tube before my first shot on subsequent relays. I know a lot of very good shooters who run a 40 shot BPCR match plus sighters while only blow tubing. I use Big Lube Bullets for my entire cowboy shooting, but I don’t recommend them for long range. Just so you know, I wipe between shots with all my single shot rifles!

Have fun,

Jasper

[Iron Pony]

Blacky I'll add my own experience to what Driftwood posted as we have attended the same the informal long range shoots. Rusty P Bucket is a real stickler in this area and suggested two things the first being to try to keep ammunition at as close to the temps you tested it at. In the cold up here, they had a match yesterday, we usually have a space heater set up in a small shed type room and many of the bp shooters keep their rounds in it till just before shooting. Then they go into the pocket of your parka etc to keep the warm.

 

The other goes along with blow tubes, the lower the humidity the more moisture you need to keep the fouling soft so the more breaths you need. Also the breath needs to come from your lungs not just your mouth as the humidity is coming from deep inside.

 

For cleaning many of us run a wet then dry patch after a 10 shot string.

 

Like Lou says NOTES NOTES NOTES! Right now I cant find my notes for the vernier site on my Sharps and the last time I shot it was at about 750 yards so my 200 and 300 yard settings are going to be from memory, which though I think is right may not be. A simple 3x5 card with settings for your normal shooting ranges with your normal loads will fit inside most of the 50 round 45-70 boxes out there.

 

Getting accurate repeatable BP loads is as complicated as building a benchrest load except the powder choices are a little fewer then smokeless. Bullet weight, style, alloy, OAL, stand off from the bore, crimp, powder compression, charge weight, wad/no wad, annealed/not annealed brass, mfg of brass among other things all come into play. In rollers and sharps you can, I admit I have, index brass so each round goes into the chamber the same way if you want to be really picky. I am NOT an expert at this but do enjoy it a lot and wish we had 500-1000 yards ranges close by but mostly what we shoot is 200 and 300 yards. Might be considered "short" range for "long" range guns but its still fun to fire the gun, feel the push hear the boom and then be able to hear the strike on a metal plate.

[Noz]

Here is a link to the open range Darksider forum.

open range

 

As Driftwood says, use big lube boolits and you can shoot maintainance-free for a whole match.

I do it every week.

44-40 rifle & Colt style cap guns, Ruger Old Armies, & 45 Colt cartridge pistols is what I shoot.

 

--Dawg

+1 (I like Dick Dastardly's "pearl lube"-homeade version)

[Virgil Ray Hality, SASS# 37355]

Hi Blacky Montana,

 

To answer your question directly, at a CAS match, I do no rifle, revolver or shotgun maintenance at all. Its been that way for me for multiple years now. I almost shot my last two match clean. One procedural and one miss both times. I do know others on the posse I shot with that have shot clean matches and I also know they don’t do maintenance either.

 

Now for a few lines in the dirt….. All black powder is not equal. All rifles (guns) are not up to the challenge of shooting black powder. Single shot rifles that can shoot BP are not really loaded the same way as lever rifles for CAS.

 

I’ll add a little commentary now. Since I no longer shoot BPCR, I will only say that I had a Pedersoli Rolling Block that would shoot 1 inch groups at 100 yards. I sold it because after 20 to 30 rounds, the block would not roll closed without a rubber mallet. I purchased a new Uberti High Wall that is nicely made, however, it will keyhole bullets after 8 to 10 rounds. Why? The barrel is not suitable for black powder.

 

My lever rifle is a Uberti 1873 Winchester look-a-like. It is really very accurate in as far as CAS goes. I rarely miss a rifle shot at a CAS match. No keyhole bullets, no fuss no mess.

 

I have 7 pairs of revolvers that I have tried to shoot BP out of for CAS. Only the Colt, Uberti Open Tops and Uberti Cattleman revolvers shoot well across 5 stages. The Colt and Cattleman revolvers will shoot 10 stages for sure. I have not tested the Open Tops at a 10 stage match, but I think they would last as well.

 

Once you find gun designs that perform for the length of a match, then you can tweak the guns, prep them for a match, and load properly.

 

IMHO and based on my experience, much of the issues with match maintenance are related to the gun design, caliber and the chosen cartridge components.

 

Nuff said for now.

[The Shoer 27979]

Blacky,

I’ve shot numerous BP long range lever gun gong type matches and always had time to blow tube between shots. I have a 45 degree elbow on the end of the blow tube for easy insertion into the action. 3 to 5 deep slow breaths keeps the fouling soft until the end of the relay. I don’t run a cleaning rod between relays unless foulers or sighters are allowed between relays. Cleaning will change your point of impact on your first shot. I prefer to blow tube before my first shot on subsequent relays. I know a lot of very good shooters who run a 40 shot BPCR match plus sighters while only blow tubing. I use Big Lube Bullets for my entire cowboy shooting, but I don’t recommend them for long range. Just so you know, I wipe between shots with all my single shot rifles!

Have fun,

Jasper

 

 

Hey Jasper how the hech you doing, Cooner says you've got a bit of cabin fever with all the snow up there.

 

 

 

I'm different then anybody else, I don't use blow tubes or swab my barrel. I even use some Kentucky windage when I shoot and all I do is load and fire still get good groups at 500 yards

[Jasper Agate]

Hey Jasper how the hech you doing, Cooner says you've got a bit of cabin fever with all the snow up there.

 

 

 

I'm different then anybody else, I don't use blow tubes or swab my barrel. I even use some Kentucky windage when I shoot and all I do is load and fire still get good groups at 500 yards

 

Hey my Brother,

Doing good up here. The snow keeps melting and we have a large lake in the arena! Cabin fever isn't an issue with all the reloading I'm trying to get done!

See you in the spring,

Jasper

[Elfego, SASS #50493]

When I shoot black powder in SASS i dont bother cleaning my guns until i get home.

 

For BPCR i use a blow tube between shots and clean the rifle at the range at the end of the shooting.