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AB 962 - A New California Law


Howdy Doody

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Well, I just got a notice from a supplier that they could not ship me ammo after February 1 2011 as I live in California. They sited AB 962 as the reason. I would like to read up on this and haven't found a link yet to it. I am concerned about components too, like powder and primers. Help appreciated thank you.

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Well, I just got a notice from a supplier that they could not ship me ammo after February 1 2011 as I live in California. They sited AB 962 as the reason. I would like to read up on this and haven't found a link yet to it. I am concerned about components too, like powder and primers. Help appreciated thank you.

 

Here ya go Pard

 

http://www.assembly.ca.gov/acs/acsframeset2text.htm

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Me too, Howdy. I don't buy any handgun ammo on line, but I buy most all of my components on line. I've heard that components are not part of it, but would like to know for sure. The law is still being fought against from different angles too. Gator

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Me too, Howdy. I don't buy any handgun ammo on line, but I buy most all of my components on line. I've heard that components are not part of it, but would like to know for sure. The law is still being fought against from different angles too. Gator

Components are not a part. If tou go to the site search AB 962 for last year not the current year and it will take you there.

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Burly Bear's got them their answers when ya needs em!

QDG :rolleyes:

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Thanks Fred. I looked it over and can't make much so far on what the actual rules are. It looks complicated and probably written that way too. I am probably going to need it all explained to me in laymans terms. :rolleyes:

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Shoot Cliffhanger a note Howdy. He is all over that because it affects his business. JJJ is also up on it. So far, it doesn't affect components at all from what I can gather. The CRPA has filed another suit to get an injunction to stop it while it grinds through court. Gonna send another few $s their way to help with the fight.

 

In the mean time, I ordered some more carry ammo so I am stocked up. :rolleyes:

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It doesn't matter what the actual law says!!! I have run into issues with many catalog companies. I have spent many hours talking to everyone at their company that would listen and I have sent out links to the California DOJ site that lists the laws. Companies outside California tend to base their rules on their interpretations of the California law, and on their owner's fears and beliefs of California law. If they think that they cannot ship something here, they won't, no matter how many times you prove that it is legal. For example, try to get a black powder firearm shipped here from The Sportsmans Guide! They wont do it because they don't want to, not because they cant. At least that was the way it was a few years ago when I quit ordering anything from them.

 

My advice, for what it is worth (and that aint much) is to KNOW the law. You can get the current gun and ammo regulations from the CA DOJ site. Don't believe anything you find listed on any site other than the official California Firearms and Ammo Regulations website. Then fully support companies willing to follow the law, and cut you ties with companies who refuse to ship here when it is perfectly legal to do so. Do not penalize a company that is following the law, if something cannot be legally shipped here, it is not the companies fault. It is the fault of our politicians.... did you vote last time?

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As I understand it.

 

There are several law suits. Some have been dismissed due to being filed to far in advance. They will be refiled at 9:00am Feb 1st. Others are in place and waiting for Feb 1st.

 

Under the definition of Ammunition, some components are included but so are some clips, magazines, speed loaders. This makes it very hard to interrupt.

 

Interesting stuff.

ATF-E (who was in my shop for four hours) has no idea what California is doing with regards to this new law. Reasons given. California has not yet put in place any of the needed information or paper work on how to get vendor selling card, buyers id card and format of log(s) to be maintained.

 

Even calling California DOJ will not get you the needed info or forms to conform to the new law.

 

The big problem with all of this is out of state manufacturers, distributors and retailers are already putting up notice they will no longer sell or send their products to California. They have no way to comply to the law as nothing is in place that is available to them to understand what they are to do.

 

I am a manufacturer, re manufacturer, wholesaler and retailer and as of Feb 1st I can not do any business. And the way the law is written it does not only cover sales but the transfer of ammunition. That means you can not give ammunition to friends, family members or anyone with out you having and the receiver having some sort of DOJ card which is not available at this time.

 

The link above to www.calguns.net is a good read. They are on top of the latest information. The discussion going on there is between lawyers and others who seem to be in the know.

 

Feb 1, 2011, 9:00am when the courts open for business, the law suits will come in to play.

==============

I am stocking up on components and loaded ammunition for my self. I am suggesting to my customers and others that they load up all they have and more if they can. The monumental uncertainty requires me to be prepared for the worst.

 

If anyone gets useful information out of CA DOJ, please post it.

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It doesn't matter what the actual law says!!! I have run into issues with many catalog companies. I have spent many hours talking to everyone at their company that would listen and I have sent out links to the California DOJ site that lists the laws. Companies outside California tend to base their rules on their interpretations of the California law, and on their owner's fears and beliefs of California law. If they think that they cannot ship something here, they won't, no matter how many times you prove that it is legal. For example, try to get a black powder firearm shipped here from The Sportsmans Guide! They wont do it because they don't want to, not because they cant. At least that was the way it was a few years ago when I quit ordering anything from them.

 

And a lot of those beliefs are based on the bovine excrement that gets heaped on CA by people in, oh, TX for example (and they then say "It was a JOKE, boy, yer s'posed t' laugh!" when called on it).

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http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/09-10/bill/a..._chaptered.html

 

For purposes of this subdivision, "ammunition" shall include,

but not be limited to, any bullet, cartridge, magazine, clip, speed

loader, autoloader, or projectile capable of being fired from a

firearm with a deadly consequence. "Ammunition" does not include

blanks.

 

As you can see, projectiles/bullets are espressly listed as being considered handgun ammunition for the purposes of this law.

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IF this law is passed, and I REALLY DOUBT that it will be, I plan to rent a party bus to Arizona once every couple of months. We'll party all the way over, buy some ammo and components, GIVE AZ OUR TAX DOLLARS, and party all the way home. Sounds like a great little adventure/vacation to me.

 

Thanks California. :rolleyes:

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Can you spell SUCKS?

 

It's a bad time to let loose of any stashed money, but I decided to jump, and ordered another truck load of 223 ammo.... yes, I can and do load some of my own, but I can even load the stuff when I can buy it delivered for $3.99 a box from Cabela's.

 

 

I'll go check and see if I have plenty of 20mm for the ack ack gun. :rolleyes:

 

Snakebite.

 

 

 

as for move out....... just as soon as housing prices get back to a reasonable level.... you know, something like 2 or 3 times what they are really worth, I'll consider bailing out.... just don't know where to go. I live in a pretty darn good spot right now... I can watch the roundup from my front porch, and shoot wild hogs off the back.

 

Snakebite

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http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/09-10/bill/a..._chaptered.html

 

For purposes of this subdivision, "ammunition" shall include,

but not be limited to, any bullet, cartridge, magazine, clip, speed

loader, autoloader, or projectile capable of being fired from a

firearm with a deadly consequence. "Ammunition" does not include

blanks.

 

As you can see, projectiles/bullets are espressly listed as being considered handgun ammunition for the purposes of this law.

 

NO, NO, NO. Read the surrounding text. The bill is a modification of existing law and CAN NOT be understood without that surrounding context. You can read a copy of the CA Penal Code modified by AB962 with the modifications highlighted that I made here :

 

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=231494

 

It was a manual cut and paste job by me, so I don't guarantee there aren't mistakes, but it does make it a lot more readable.

 

The provision that you mention is in Section 5 of AB962 which modifies Section 12316 of the CA Penal Code and is paragraph (2) of subdivision (B) of Section 12316. So, this definition only applies to subdivision (B) which says that anyone forbidden from owning or possessing a firearm is also forbidden from own, possess, etc. any ammunition or reloaded ammunition. On top of that, this definition is part of the existing law and was not added by AB962.

 

Note Section 6 of AB962 adds Section 12317 of the CA Penal code. Section 12317 deals with knowingly selling ammunition to those covered in Section 12316.

 

My un-lawyer-ly take on this is that the fact that these two sections modify the definition of ammunition can be construed to mean that the general definition does not include these items.

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Marshal Phil DeGrave. "IF this law is passed, and I REALLY DOUBT that it will be,...."

===============

The Governor (that would be Arnold) signed AB962 in to law on 10/12/2009.

 

Law goes in to effect 2/1/2011.

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After that school board room video,they must be gettin noivous.All i can say is the folks behind that desk,should be on thier knees thanking god for the next year. :rolleyes: I think i would retire ,gimmie my pention and i'm on permanent vacation after that.

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NO, NO, NO. Read the surrounding text. The bill is a modification of existing law and CAN NOT be understood without that surrounding context. You can read a copy of the CA Penal Code modified by AB962 with the modifications highlighted that I made here :

 

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=231494

 

It was a manual cut and paste job by me, so I don't guarantee there aren't mistakes, but it does make it a lot more readable.

 

The provision that you mention is in Section 5 of AB962 which modifies Section 12316 of the CA Penal Code and is paragraph (2) of subdivision (:unsure: of Section 12316. So, this definition only applies to subdivision (;) which says that anyone forbidden from owning or possessing a firearm is also forbidden from own, possess, etc. any ammunition or reloaded ammunition. On top of that, this definition is part of the existing law and was not added by AB962.

 

Note Section 6 of AB962 adds Section 12317 of the CA Penal code. Section 12317 deals with knowingly selling ammunition to those covered in Section 12316.

 

My un-lawyer-ly take on this is that the fact that these two sections modify the definition of ammunition can be construed to mean that the general definition does not include these items.

Thank you. So many people read a few line and make a judgement without reading what the text references. Prople need to read the entire California Gun Law completly before posting misinformation. When the Law refrences a Section then read that Section as well. Again thanks I'll get off the box now. :rolleyes:

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Agreed. One has to read the entire law and the sections that it modifies or pertains to.

 

However, that being said, I am afraid that many outside CA companies will not try to get into interpretations or read much of it and just simply follow the easy path of 'no sales to CA'.

 

I know that there are a bunch of lawsuits challenging the law are all lined up ready to be filed Feb 1.

 

My local dealers have not received much of a word, paperwork, procedures or anything from Sacramento to implement the requirements. IMHO, just a way to try to make a complete ban.

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Hi Cliffhanger,

 

I guess I should have said; "If the the law stands or is declared unconstitutional".

 

I'm thinkin it might be a good time to buy a place on the river (in AZ), get an AZ drivers License, register all my vehicles there (at $25 each) get all my mail order ammo delivered there, spend all my vacation money there etc.

 

I really don't see how CA is going to be able to enforce these laws when they can't even decide who or how this crap is going work. And where is the money coming from to implement these laws? It's laready a huge CF, I can't wait to see what happens Feb 1.

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I have been setting in place several options since this bill become law.

 

I have talked with the ATF-E on how to go about putting my FFL ammunition manufacturing license on Inactive during this mess. I asked if I can put it on Inactive and move to another state can I reactivate it after meeting all requirements in other state.

 

The answers I got where extremely helpful. And Yes I can put it on Inactive with just a letter of intent. If I move and decide to reopen, I can meet local requirements and not go through all the FFL application stuff again. The agent even said that if I where to send this letter to her, she would be glad to maintain the process and help me in anyway as long as she works for ATF-E. She said she hopes to have another 10 years or so. She did say to keep paying the FFL license fee until I decide either way. Don't let it expire. Not a problem. I just renewed for 3 more years.

 

I also have to convince my dad to move as well.

 

I will stay here in California as see how this plays out.

 

Now just some history. This signing and finger printing of buyers was done in the 60's here in California. It also had problems in that all the paper work it generated was to be kept by the sellers. But when a seller quit business there was no one to take the paper work. The local law enforcement was to take possession of it. Well a friends father closed up shop. Took all the papers to the local sheriff office. They didn't want it. When it was pointed out that it was their job according to the law, the sargent took the papers and turned around and dropped it all in the trash can.

 

I imaging this about to happen again.

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