What is a TG for?

[BJT]

I keep seeing people say that a TG just voted the way his club told him to. If that is the case, why not just use direct representation and have SASS members in good standing vote on the issues?

 

I think there is a good argument for having well grounded, experienced TGs with good judgement represent thier clubs and an interactive voting session but not if the votes are determined before hand.

 

What is it? Do TGs represent the interests of their clubs or just deliver the mail? There are cheaper mail services.

 

Cheers,

BJT

[Madd Mike #8595]

ok

lets fire the TG's

 

make the change BJT

 

many on the wire think the convention is lacking

many on the wire think the TG's are lacking

 

grassroots

git er done

[Snakebite]

+1

 

A good TG should have plenty of discussions with the membership that he/she represents. There should be plenty of two way communications. He should keep the members abrest of current issues or what's Hot and what's Not.

If the TG does nothing other thand deliver the mail..... then nobody benifits. A good TG must have his finger on the pluse of the club, and be able to change the vote if things change in the direction that the club would want.

 

Snakebite

[BJT]

Mike, I think Snakebite gets what I am saying much more than you do.

 

I think TGs should own the results of votes because they are responsible to inform their clubs on the issues and represent the interests of the thier club at the convention and not simply deliver a voting result.

 

I want TGs at the convention but I also want them to own the quality of the results.

 

Very Best Regards,

BJT

[Colorado Sunset, SASS #45104L]

The Sand Creek Raider TG always asks for shooter input and we discuss in depth at our club meeting. Our TG knows the general consesus and why since the topics can go sideways. He keeps us informed and is knowledgeable on pretty much everything including SASS history.

 

Thanks to Bat Masterson (and Gingles prior to)!

[Danite SASS #27034]

I can't think of too many halls that can seat 90,000 people for a meeting?????

[Madd Mike #8595]

Mike, I think Snakebite gets what I am saying much more than you do.

 

I think TGs should own the results of votes because they are responsible to inform their clubs on the issues and represent the interests of the thier club at the convention and not simply deliver a voting result.

 

I want TGs at the convention but I also want them to own the quality of the results.

 

Very Best Regards,

BJT

 

with all due respect to you and snakebite

yer correct

 

but you aint gitten it

 

my member dont give a hoot untill after the vote

I try, they DOO NOT

 

I mean it

grass roots

change things

I really mean it

 

dont just pick on TG's

that is my point, and go back and see my reponses year after year

 

they are consistant

most / some / manybe none ..................TG's work hard

yet

members often compain

 

 

sassmaddmike@yahoo.com

 

how would SASS inform and educate the members

for a one on one vote then prove the votes without multi votes and so on

[Assassin]

I'm not a member of any of the local clubs where we shoot. In years past I was very active in the operation of a couple clubs. My wife and I continue to set up stages on occasion. At the monthly matches we do more than our share of work, posse duties, timing, building props, etc. Been a SASS member since 96 and a life member since 99, and I have no say in voting. I can't even tell you who the governors of the local clubs are, much less what was being voted on at this years convention. The wire has much more info than the govs. give out. My wife and I would rather get our chance to vote than to rely on a governor that keeps everything to him/herself. Personally, I don't feel the current system is representing all of the members.

 

 

LL'

[Steeldust Dan, SASS #2631Life]

BJT,

 

You ask a very pertinent question or questions. I've been wondering the same thing, especially after that other thread. It appears, from the other TG thread, that TGs just "deliver the mail" as you put it. Is that really representation? What happens if there are issues that come up in debate that might change the focus, yet there isn't time to call all of one's club members to see what they think? Shouldn't TGs have the authority to vote the way they see fit? What about "deals" being made to get the necessary votes? Does this happen? It really can't if a TG just votes the way the club wants him or her to vote. As you say, might as well mail in the ballot. It appears many of the TGs do just that with proxies.

 

I don't have any answers, but I am very curious about the whole process. I'm especially interested in when the TGs became the mailmen and mailwomen of their clubs.

 

Steeldust Dan

[John Boy]

A good TG should have plenty of discussions with the membership that he/she represents. There should be plenty of two way communications. He should keep the members abreast of current issues or what's Hot and what's Not.

If the TG does nothing other than deliver the mail..... then nobody benefits. A good TG must have his finger on the pulse of the club, and be able to change the vote if things change in the direction that the club would want.

Snakebite, I wish this was the norm instead of the exception. Plus over half the club TG's don't even submit Proxy Votes

[Mustang Gregg]

Cheaper mail services? Am I hearing a SLAM???

[Dalton Masterson, SASS #51139]

Isnt it kind of up to your club to make the rules of what you can and can't do?

DM

[Mustang Gregg]

Clyde:

 

I thought the vote decision WAS shown.

I will try to cut & paste it here soon.

 

MG

 

 

EDIT======

 

Here are the results:

 

Item #1 For = 57% Against = 43% Failed

 

Item #2 For = 42% Against = 58% Failed

 

Item #3 For = 63% Against = 37% Failed

 

Item #4 For = 90% Against = 10% Passed

[Kid Kneestone SASS #14851]

Each year our club, including our TG, has a rather spirited discussion of the items up for vote at the TG summit. We compile the votes among our club membership for each item as to pass or fail, and those majority votes (from our group) are then conveyed to the summit, either via our own TG, or via a proxy vote with another TG if ours is unable to attend.

 

It may not be a perfect system but it seems to work for us.

 

Kid Kneestone

Mad River Rangers

[Guest Paniolo Cowboy SASS #75875]

I don't know what all TGs do. I have no idea if all are working for their members or not. Personally I hope they are working for the general consensus of their clubs. And if they are, then I sure wouldn't call them some sort of mail delievery.

 

If they are indeed doing their job, than they are argueing the case that they are tasked to do. If it goes against his or her personal beliefs, then they have to put those personal beliefs aside and instead represent the opinion of the club as a whole. That's why they were chosen as TG.

 

We in the High Sierra Drifters have a great TG by the name of Nyack Jack. Besides being a great guy with a true cowboy heart, he communicates with our club. Here is a copy of the email that he sent out to all of us just before the SASS Convention:

 

Howdy folks,

The SASS Convention is comin' up in a couple of weeks and the Territorial Governors will be voting on 4 items this year. Let your voice be heard by clicking on the following link to vote. There is also an area for you to give your input on 3 items up for discussion.

 

http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/59Z5CVG

 

Please vote by December 6th.

Thanks for participating and happy holidays to you and your families.

 

Nyack Jack #64693L

Territorial Governor

High Sierra Drifters

 

After the results came in from polling the club's membership, he wrote an e-mail back with the results of how we voted. And he attached this note:

 

I'm still recovering from my back injury and can't make the 10 hour drive to Las Vegas yet so Nevada Turtle has graciously offered to take our proxy for us.

 

Thank you for taking the time to give your opinion and using the new Survey tool. Hope it provided an easy format to cast your vote.

 

Happy holidays!

 

Nyack Jack

TG - High Sierra Drifters

 

Nyack Jack is a great TG because he understands that being a TG is not a position to use to push some sort of personal agenda. He does as we ask him to, to please represent us even if it goes against his own beliefs. And as an active shooter, one who when he's up and going attends all of the matches, he has his hand on the pulse of our club. It's because of that that and the fact that he really does work hard for the club that he represents us so well.

 

Congressman can learn a lot from people like Nyack. They can learn that when you actually experience the same problems as those you represent that yes you will have an easier time argueing their desires because it also becomes yours. They can also learn that a position of trust is just that and more and should not be abused by trying to use it as something other than what it is intended to be. A position of respresentation.

 

From what I've seen of the TGs in my area, all are hard working good members who get very little credit for their hard work.

 

[Guest Paniolo Cowboy SASS #75875]

I keep seeing people say that a TG just voted the way his club told him to. If that is the case, why not just use direct representation and have SASS members in good standing vote on the issues?

 

I think there is a good argument for having well grounded, experienced TGs with good judgement represent thier clubs and an interactive voting session but not if the votes are determined before hand.

 

What is it? Do TGs represent the interests of their clubs or just deliver the mail? There are cheaper mail services.

 

Cheers,

BJT

 

BJT,

 

Being a TG yourself, how do you justify voting your personal beliefs over what your club wants?

[Rye Miles #13621]

Would the results really be that much different if we had no TG's and voted direct?? Just askin.......

[C.C. Dollar, SASS #62609]

Hello Paniolo Cowboy and everyone else out there in wire land. I usually don't pipe up much on the wire but I have been reading these posts with interest. Interest in that I keep telling myself I must be in a differerent world. What got me started was your post regarding Nyack Jack and our TG's...Toni 2 Bits and El Rod. We are informed by them about ALL TG and SASS agendas at all of our safety meetings. ALL agenda items and SASS items of interest are detailed in depth in our news letters...they are discussed and voted on by the members...and our TG's represent our interests and votes. When they come back from the convention we thank them and go shootin'. Am I from a different planet? Coming from Reid land you don't know how refreshing it is to have some one vote the majorities interests.

 

C.C. Dollar

[Carlos El Hombre]

Folks,

There is NO perfect system, the one in place seems to work OK as far as I can see.

Carlos

[Guest Paniolo Cowboy SASS #75875]

Hello Paniolo Cowboy and everyone else out there in wire land. I usually don't pipe up much on the wire but I have been reading these posts with interest. Interest in that I keep telling myself I must be in a differerent world. What got me started was your post regarding Nyack Jack and our TG's...Toni 2 Bits and El Rod. We are informed by them about ALL TG and SASS agendas at all of our safety meetings. ALL agenda items and SASS items of interest are detailed in depth in our news letters...they are discussed and voted on by the members...and our TG's represent our interests and votes. When they come back from the convention we thank them and go shootin'. Am I from a different planet? Coming from Reid land you don't know how refreshing it is to have some one vote the majorities interests.

 

C.C. Dollar

 

+1

 

I understand the frustration because I live in Boxer/Feinstein land where I had no representation and only a small minority matter.

 

 

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!

 

[Gold Canyon Kid #43974]

All this talk about TGs and voting makes me ill. We are talking about only a small portion of a TGs job. Most work tons for their club year around. How they handle things within their club concerning this very small part of their job is between them and their club. Have been to the convention several years representing a club as the TG and also carrying proxie votes. Whenever I carried the proxie votes I asked the clubs whether I should let discussion at the summit change the vote. Some clubs said yes and others said no.

[Justice B. Dunn, SASS #3516]

I've been in SASS since 93. In that time the rule book has gone from a few pages you can stick in your pocket to multiple volumes of rules and lists of cirrcumstances that may or may not incur a penalty. When I joined you followed the oath of "The Cowboy Way". Now we seem to have so many shooters that want to take advantage of every opening in the way a stage can be shot if the instructions leave open that tiny little window. We didn't need TG's back at the beginning.

 

I'm not saying the sport has gone bad but there are those in CAS that don't seem to know what the "Spirit of the Game" means anymore. TG's do provide a valuable service to the sport. They are generally the ones that have been actively involved with their home clubs and major matches in their home area. They are asked to be the TG for that club for those reasons.

 

We need a body like the TG's that can rationally discuss the items that impact the sport and it's direction. If every active member had a vote.....well it wouldn't be pretty ...much like what you find on the wire here. And sometimes that dialouge is not productive. Do we need a Convention in today's modern electronic age??? Well that is debatable. Many of the TG's take time off from work (many are self employed) or vacation time. Some times the clubs re-imburse the TG for his expenses sometime not. At this 2010 Convention we had one TG that came in from France. How much did that cost him?

 

Yes Virginia..there is a Territorial Governor and while you may not see him working for you...he's there and taken care of business so you don't have to.

[Okie Sawbones, SASS #77381]

All this talk about TGs and voting makes me ill. We are talking about only a small portion of a TGs job. Most work tons for their club year around. How they handle things within their club concerning this very small part of their job is between them and their club. Have been to the convention several years representing a club as the TG and also carrying proxie votes. Whenever I carried the proxie votes I asked the clubs whether I should let discussion at the summit change the vote. Some clubs said yes and others said no.

 

+1.

[Jasper Agate]

Hello Paniolo Cowboy and everyone else out there in wire land. I usually don't pipe up much on the wire but I have been reading these posts with interest. Interest in that I keep telling myself I must be in a differerent world. What got me started was your post regarding Nyack Jack and our TG's...Toni 2 Bits and El Rod. We are informed by them about ALL TG and SASS agendas at all of our safety meetings. ALL agenda items and SASS items of interest are detailed in depth in our news letters...they are discussed and voted on by the members...and our TG's represent our interests and votes. When they come back from the convention we thank them and go shootin'. Am I from a different planet? Coming from Reid land you don't know how refreshing it is to have some one vote the majorities interests.

 

C.C. Dollar

+1 We also gave our TG’s Toni 2 bits and El Rod our vote of confidence. If the meat of the matter changed they had our permission to vote on the agenda as they saw fit, with our blessings. They work hard for us and I for one appreciate all they do.

Jasper