Got a question

[Tator]

Why is there so many rules and regulations for shooting the wild bunch. Like why do we have to own a 45 cal rifle. Why cant we use our everyday match rifle that is chambered for a 38. Anyone know why? There is alot more questions to come, but someone answer me this first. This is one reason out of many reason I will not compete in shooting wild bunch matches.

 

 

 

Prestidigitator

[Guest]

Two reasons, off the top of my head:

First, their game, their rules.

Second, the end goal for Wild Bunch shooting is a completely separate, stand alone game from CAS; so there is no "everyday" match rifle except what THAT game specifies.

You can't use your CAS rifle for USPSA 3-gun matches - same analogy.

[SaukValley Sam, SASS # 66557]

From reading I have done WB matches are designed to have more knock-down/reactive targets and a light load 45 will still work while light 38s may not. As far as more rules, all other things being equall, a 1911 in inexperieced hands has more ways to hurt you than a SA.

[Jefro, SASS#69420]

Most local clubs allow any main match rifle. The WB intended this to be a large caliber match, and I would buy a 44/40 instesd of a .45 if I wanted to shoot at state or above. Plenty of pards out there will share thier rifle if you really want to shoot state or above. You can learn more from the Wild Bunch forum. Good Luck

http://www.sassnet.com/wildbunch/forum/

 

Jefro Relax-Enjoy

[crooked jake,4371]

Why is there so many rules and regulations for shooting the wild bunch. Like why do we have to own a 45 cal rifle. Why cant we use our everyday match rifle that is chambered for a 38. Anyone know why? There is alot more questions to come, but someone answer me this first. This is one reason out of many reason I will not compete in shooting wild bunch matches.

 

 

 

Prestidigitator

 

Pres,

 

Wild bunch wasnt started by SASS .........it was started by others long before and was loosly ruled ......ya just basically shot a 45 instead of a single action and started with shotguns stuffed.

 

As Headley said ....it is now a seperate event at SASS sanctioned matches ..........most local stuff still will let ya use whatever ya brung ........I think anyway

 

Sometimes sheep do have a way of following what they think may be the leaders.

 

Feel the reason for the large cal rifles is to keep it from turning into an all out race game so people would accept allowing semi autos into the game.

 

So check around local and see what their rules are ........but yeah ,sorry you cant play at the big matches as its fun .....specially stuffin a 97 full and smokin

[Doc Shapiro]

The gun and engagement rules are what they are. The reasons for them really are irrelevant. Read them and decide if you want to play or not.

 

If you want them changed, talk to your TG and see if it can be brought up at the next Summit.

[Madd Mike #8595]

1. Why is there so many rules and regulations for shooting the wild bunch.
   
2. Like why do we have to own a 45 cal rifle. Why cant we use our everyday match rifle that is chambered for a 38. Anyone know why?
   
3. There is alot more questions to come, but someone answer me this first.
   
4. This is one reason out of many reason I will not compete in shooting wild bunch matches.
   

 

Prestidigitator

 

1. there are less rules for WB than CAS
   
2. SASS is also kown as the Single Action Shopping Society (s0-go buy a wb legal rifle to play)
   
3. ok, I hope I did
   
4. you are missing a he77 of a lot of fun (and I AM NOT normaly a slide gun person)
   

[Roy's creek Dan, SASS 73697]

Tator

As it was explained to me: Wild Bunch is a big bore sport! Not a cowboy action side match.

Also the rules are made and changed by the Wild bunch and the rules commity of 5, not the TG's.

I got this from the commity at the convention.

RCD

[Nichols Creek, SASS #77627]

Because, as in SASS, different , hold on here it comes, CATEGORIES, and style of shooting, have different fire arm and clothing requirement. Kinda like, why can't I shoot B western with a 97 and sandals????? Because the rules say not.

[Bodie Tom SASS # 67918]

See, I thought that same thing about 38 rifles. But I shoot a 38 rifle, and don't have any issues even at major matches in Wild Bunch.........

 

 

 

Oh yeah. Its a 38-40.........................

 

 

 

By the way, Arizona Redneck actually shoots faster with his WB 45 colt wirh 160 plus loads than he does with his 38/357 rifle..........

And if you know him at all, thats pretty darn fast...........

 

His Cowboy rifle is also now a 45 Colt. Think arond a 140-145 factor as well.........

 

Although he plays a different game these days, he will be back I am sure............

 

Have fun all.................

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

T -

 

Ok, you really asked a philosophical question, so let's see if I can get close to a philosophical answer for you.

 

The Wild Bunch rules (SASS official sanctioned version) were heavily motivated by complaints that shooters traveling to WB matches did not know quite what to expect. With the original, locally varied rules that grew up without much central oversight, shooters had a hard time knowing, without calling a match director at each venue, if their Model 12 S/G, or Pencil-barreled Double-Action S&W, or their 30-40 Krag, or their Mauser broomhandle would be legal, how it would be stoked/loaded/reloaded/scored. So, similarity between matches (especially for the rules) was an important consideration in the establishment of a single rule set.

 

Reduction of the amount of "let's try the latest Burgess/Henry Big Boy/Bisley/Pioneer model" firearms churn was also, I believe, a consideration for narrowing the acceptable firearm types. Challenging the shooter to achieve better accuracy while dealing with a higher power factor was another philosophy that is still very evident in the rules and the matches being put together. And, fear that the modernization urge would soon have folks shooting plastic guns and glass sights led to a strong emphasis on tightly limiting modifications.

 

So, there's a few of the factors that led to the current rule set. Other pards closer to the Rules Committee can fine tune these conjectures.

 

The REAL bottom line, though, is that it is one more shooting game with older gun designs, one that can now be played consistently, one that is not terribly expensive to get set up for, and one that is fun. I happen to like the game. Let's go shoot!

 

Good luck, GJ

[Bodie Tom SASS # 67918]

See, I thought that same thing about 38 rifles. But I shoot a 38 rifle, and don't have any issues even at major matches in Wild Bunch.........

 

 

 

Oh yeah. Its a 38-40.........................

 

 

 

By the way, Arizona Redneck actually shoots faster with his WB 45 colt wirh 160 plus loads than he does with his 38/357 rifle..........

And if you know him at all, thats pretty darn fast...........

 

His Cowboy rifle is also now a 45 Colt. Think arond a 140-145 factor as well.........

 

Although he plays a different game these days, he will be back I am sure............

 

Have fun all.................

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

When it comes to Wild Bunch, you need to remember the following things.

 

1. The SASS Offical rules say a 1911, a stoked 97 shotgun, and a .40+ rifle.

 

2. Some clubs don't use these rules.

 

3. The most "open" variation of Wild Bunch allows the use of ANY rifle, shotgun and pistol that existed prior to 1918. (A few clubs extend this to 1921)

 

4. Many places that hold Wild Bunch matches use rules somewhere between the wide open and SASS offical rules.

 

5. Using the SASS Offical stuff will be legal at anyplace that has more open rules.

 

So with all of that in mind, if you are planning to go to a Wild Bunch match, ask the club what their rules are. You just might find that the rules are less stringent that you would be led to believe.

[Madd Mike #8595]

SASS is asking-hopeing-promotin that we

start addressing the new rules, as there has been considerable thought put into establishing them

hopeing for

 

 

for more consistancy for folks that travel-shoot

 

mileage will certainly vary

[Lone Dog, SASS #20401]

The gun and engagement rules are what they are. The reasons for them really are irrelevant. Read them and decide if you want to play or not.

 

If you want them changed, talk to your TG and see if it can be brought up at the next Summit.

 

Sorry Doc, but SASS TGs have ZERO input to WBAS.

 

WBAS is the sole bailiwick of the Wild Bunch themselves, with input from a select small Rules Committee.

 

Pretty sure they are not gonna let the TGs have any say so in the future.

 

Thank goodness.

[Madd Mike #8595]

as aTG at the convention

and a TG that tool every class with regards to

and personally talked with the select Wild bunch rules guys

 

they do not wish for WB to go down the slippery slope that has haunted sass-cas

 

they will stand tall about rule changes

and after seeing, hearing then thinking about what they said

 

hear-here

I got their back

 

they are volenteers

they are knowledgeable

they are seasoned shooters

 

thanks guys

[Chuckaroo #13080 Regulator]

Madd Mike +1

 

And, as Hedley stated, Wild Bunch will migrate into a stand alone sport. Seperate web page (already) seperate matches and seperate championships.

 

It has never been considered a SASS Category and most likely never will.

 

We have enjoyed it as a side match and teaser for those that might join in on the fun in a Wild Bunch Match. Rules are rules and that is it. As WB grows there will be changes made to help the growth. Right now, the wheel is bring invented, don't change it to fast yet.

[mj spencer]

Why is there so many rules and regulations for shooting the wild bunch. Like why do we have to own a 45 cal rifle. Why cant we use our everyday match rifle that is chambered for a 38. Anyone know why? There is alot more questions to come, but someone answer me this first. This is one reason out of many reason I will not compete in shooting wild bunch matches.

 

 

 

Prestidigitator

 

 

HOLY COW, THE KING OF IT ALL HAS GRACED US WITH HIS PRESENCE ON THE WIRE!!!!!!!!!

 

LOVE YA KID, HOPE TO SEE YA SOON

[Tator]

HOLY COW, THE KING OF IT ALL HAS GRACED US WITH HIS PRESENCE ON THE WIRE!!!!!!!!!

 

LOVE YA KID, HOPE TO SEE YA SOON

yeah I figured I better start seeing whats going on out there.

[BJT]

The answer seems quite simple. You could have a game that would interest shooters outside cowboy and give them an introduction to the cowboy world or you could tie a new game up in so many rules that only a small group would be interested. Seems the objective is clear......

[Gold Canyon Kid #43974]

The gun and engagement rules are what they are. The reasons for them really are irrelevant. Read them and decide if you want to play or not.

 

If you want them changed, talk to your TG and see if it can be brought up at the next Summit.

 

Won't work, TGs have absolutely nothing to do with the Wild Bunch rules. They are being closely held by SASS and a couple of "consultants". If you want any changes to Wild Bunch rules you will have to convince the SASS owners of the change. Maybe someday there will be unique TGs for Wild Bunch only-who knows, it is an evolving situation.

[Brother King, SASS #69031]

Won't work, TGs have absolutely nothing to do with the Wild Bunch rules. They are being closely held by SASS and a couple of "consultants". If you want any changes to Wild Bunch rules you will have to convince the SASS owners of the change. Maybe someday there will be unique TGs for Wild Bunch only-who knows, it is an evolving situation.

Or maybe PM Happy Jack out in UT. Axe him yer qwesshun. Nice guy and spent a lot of time and energy on the posse that helped write those rules.

[Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217]

Why is there so many rules and regulations for shooting the wild bunch. Like why do we have to own a 45 cal rifle. Why cant we use our everyday match rifle that is chambered for a 38. Anyone know why? There is alot more questions to come, but someone answer me this first. This is one reason out of many reason I will not compete in shooting wild bunch matches.

 

Prestidigitator

Hi Tator,

 

I've heard/read several things on the topic. One is the "powers that be" favor recoil. Your 1911s must not surpass a maximum weight. I asked why and was told heavier guns lessen recoil.

 

Two, or was it three, threads were pulled when folks started asking questions or was it questioning the need for certain rules. It is what it is or what the WB wants it to be.

 

One of the Wild Bunch said that we are also the Single Action Shopping Society. Therefore, certain categories, side matches, matches require different equipment "by design."

 

The WB Board of Directors expects WB to be a separate discipline like mounted shooting. The more differences from CAS, the more likely this will happen.

 

Hope that helps.

 

Regards,

 

Allie Mo

 

PS It was a pleasure to meet you at the US Open! Sorry, I didn't know you were the "king of it all" or I would have curtsied.

[Red River Ray SASS#33254]

as aTG at the convention

and a TG that tool every class with regards to

and personally talked with the select Wild bunch rules guys

 

they do not wish for WB to go down the slippery slope that has haunted sass-cas

 

 

 

"has haunted SASS" I swear!

 

Must be tha period that brought them more growth than any other time including there Golden days. My achin assssssssss

 

 

RRR

[Madd Mike #8595]

"has haunted SASS" I swear!

 

Must be tha period that brought them more growth than any other time including there Golden days. My achin assssssssss

 

 

RRR

 

wow

I agree

 

all the more reason to promote

or

help promote

it becoming stand alone

 

SASS CAS

SASS Mounted shooting

SASS Wild Bunch

 

it works fer me

[BJT]

"has haunted SASS" I swear!

 

Must be tha period that brought them more growth than any other time including there Golden days. My achin assssssssss

 

 

RRR

 

 

What r cubed said............

[Colt McAllister]

they do not wish for WB to go down the slippery slope that has haunted sass-cas

 

Please explain your comment, you have me real confused.

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

The answer seems quite simple. You could have a game that would interest shooters outside cowboy and give them an introduction to the cowboy world or you could tie a new game up in so many rules that only a small group would be interested. Seems the objective is clear......

 

Love yer sense of humor!

 

[Bad Hand]

Madd Mike +1

 

And, as Hedley stated, Wild Bunch will migrate into a stand alone sport. Seperate web page (already) seperate matches and seperate championships.

 

It has never been considered a SASS Category and most likely never will.

 

We have enjoyed it as a side match and teaser for those that might join in on the fun in a Wild Bunch Match. Rules are rules and that is it. As WB grows there will be changes made to help the growth. Right now, the wheel is bring invented, don't change it to fast yet.

 

 

Was asked today if you had to be a SASS member to shoot the Wild Bunch matches, I didn't know. Since it's supposed to be a stand alone sport, do you?

[Happy Jack, SASS #20451]

Bad Hand and pards, just like you have to be a SASS member to shoot at a Sanctioned CAS match or a Sanctioned CMS match, you have to be a SASS member to shoot at a Sanctioned WBAS match. At the local level whatever the club's rules are concerning SASS membership applies. We don't require SASS membership for new shooters to shoot our local matches, but encourage new shooters to join SASS. After 2 years SASS membership is required to shoot our local matches. (CAS and WBAS)

[Max Montana, SASS #23907]

Ah guess ah'm jes dense. Ah'm not seein' the rules proliferation in WB like we've seen in CAS. WB seems pretty simple. WB is a whole lotta fun from a shootin' perspective. If it's not any particular person's cup of tea then it's not yer cup of tea. No big deal. Two categories for two kinds of pistol setup, only one kind of shotgun, essentially one kind of rifle. Had they limited it to only 45LC then there would be no caliber differences allowing 40 cal & above appeared to be a minor compromise. About as even keeled playing field as one can get. The power factor requirement follows that logic also.

 

Heated discussion appears to be a way of life when groups of people assemble, from boy scouts and church groups through library councils to college athletic committees and political caucuses. SASS has been no different from my experience. Good hearted folks were complaining about CAS rules when I found the wire in 2000 and are still arguing many of the same elements today. There did seem to be a proliferation when the TG system was implemented. Actually, required a whole forum just for itself. You can tell we've really come a long way when one considers that now good hearted folks are arguing over coaching! So, while WB has had it's discussions and will continue I'm sure. It doesn't seem to have reached the level of CAS as of yet.

 

I for one find it appealing & fun to be able to attend a match and shoot 12 WB stages, 12 Action stages, plus warmups, side matches etc. For me it's always been about the shootin'. My only complaint is why carry a rifle to the shooting line that can hold 10 or more rounds and only shoot 6 or 7 or 9?

 

This cowboy votes for more guns, more targets, bigger stages, and more rounds down range. Now that's fun. One thing I agree with Steve Lee about, "I like guns". Ah'm even in for Space Cowboy side matches incorporating Thompsons, Sterlings, MP5's etc. .

[Madd Mike #8595]

Please explain your comment, you have me real confused.

 

changing rules

equipment cuz many already have a glock (exptreme example)

[Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217]

Rumor has it that stainless 1911s were allowed because a certain "well placed" shooter had one.

[Gold Canyon Kid #43974]

Rumor has it that stainless 1911s were allowed because a certain "well placed" shooter had one.

Was this the same shooter that was using formerly illegal leather?

[Colt McAllister]

changing rules

equipment cuz many already have a glock (exptreme example)

 

 

So are you calling rule changes and adding catigories the slippery slope has haunted SASS?