I love messing with young people

[Crazy Gun Barney, SASS #2428]

I'm sitting at my desk and a QC inspector came by my desk and asked to use my calipers. So, I reached in my desk and pulled out my vernier calipers and handed them over. It took this moron a minute of playing with them before he finally handed them back and asked me to measure the part he was holding. For those who don't play with these things, there are three basic types of calipers, electronic (big digital readout), dial, and vernier. Unfortunately the young morons never bothered to learn to read the vernier type because the others are easier to read, kind of like people who cant tell time on a clock with hands because all they have ever known are digital clocks. The really sad part is after some kindly laughing by everyone in the office I offer to explain how a vernier caliper is used and he declined saying that all of his calipers were digital. Morons! I swear our future looks dimmer and dimmer the older I get. Nobody seems to bother to learn anything just for the sake of expanding themselves.

 

Next time somebody comes by to ask for a calculator, I'm gonna hand them the old slide rule I keep around just for fun!

[Barterin Bill]

I thought using a slide rule was the best trick I had ever learned. That was before everyone was using calculators and I was having an awful time with arithmatic.

[Iron Pony]

Long before calculators I used to have a wrist watch with a circular slide rule on the outside bezel, worked great and was just about invisible.

 

Crazy Gun this reminds me of guys who spend extra money to get scopes with mil-dot reticles when they couldnt tell you what a milliradian was if you held a gun to their head. Speaking of which wheres my ballistic calculator?

[Long Branch Louie]

I had to use a big 24" pair of veniers at work last week. I have to admit, it took a minute because I hadn't used them in a while. I was in a store a while back and the "amount tendered" part of the register evidently was not working. I finally had to tell the young feller how much change he owed me. Most kids today have no clue how to count back change from the amount purchased to the amount you gave them......

[Crazy Gun Barney, SASS #2428]

Yup, you can always tell if a cashier knows what they are doing by what change they grab first. If they start with the large bills and work their way down to the penies, they are just doing what the computer tells them. If they start with the pennies, they know what they are doing.

[Yellowhouse Sam # 25171]

A young man was discussing the relative merits of two different brand but otherwise very similar amps at Guitar Center in Plano. He threw a lot of jargon in after which I muttered "So its six of one and half dozen of the other huh?" He looked at me very strangely then asked what I meant. It took a few minutes of explaining to get it through his thick skull. But he thought my achaic saying was cool and couldn't wait to use it on his buddies.

[Abilene Slim SASS 81783]

There was an interesting study done a number of years ago about people's total reliance on calculators for basic math. The members of the study group were given identical calculators, but they were programmed to deliver a wrong answer. For example, adding 25+24+24+25 might show a sum of 96. Most people accepted that as the correct answer. As the numbers grew larger, the incorrect answers became more outrageous. The sum of 3,463 and 4,871 might be 12,432, yet almost no one questioned it. Amazing.

[Crazy Gun Barney, SASS #2428]

Deadwood, I believe that! I've seen some outrageous mistakes blamed on the calculator. One of my instructors in college (the same one that made us use sliderules for half the year) insisted that we should know the answer before we start using the calculator. He had a bunch of different quizzes and drills to make sure we were able to approximate the answer we were looking for so if the calculator gave us a bad number we would recognize it as being bad. Of course this was the same guy that used to say (and I say it now) that 2 plus 2 equals 5 for large values of 2. think about it...

[Wallaby Jack, SASS #44062]

I'm sitting at my desk and a QC inspector came by my desk and asked to use my calipers. So, I reached in my desk and pulled out my vernier calipers and handed them over. It took this moron a minute of playing with them before he finally handed them back and asked me to measure the part he was holding. For those who don't play with these things, there are three basic types of calipers, electronic (big digital readout), dial, and vernier. Unfortunately the young morons never bothered to learn to read the vernier type because the others are easier to read, kind of like people who cant tell time on a clock with hands because all they have ever known are digital clocks. The really sad part is after some kindly laughing by everyone in the office I offer to explain how a vernier caliper is used and he declined saying that all of his calipers were digital. Morons! I swear our future looks dimmer and dimmer the older I get. Nobody seems to bother to learn anything just for the sake of expanding themselves.

 

Next time somebody comes by to ask for a calculator, I'm gonna hand them the old slide rule I keep around just for fun!

 

 

Why not hand them an abbacus ..... an' tell 'em it's "made in China"

[Wallaby Jack, SASS #44062]

A young man was discussing the relative merits of two different brand but otherwise very similar amps at Guitar Center in Plano. He threw a lot of jargon in after which I muttered "So its six of one and half dozen of the other huh?" He looked at me very strangely then asked what I meant. It took a few minutes of explaining to get it through his thick skull. But he thought my achaic saying was cool and couldn't wait to use it on his buddies.

 

 

 

Ya could try ..... "13 of one, and a Bakers Dozen of the other" ..... really gets tha blank stares werkin' ......

[ShadowCatcher]

I'm sitting at my desk and a QC inspector came by my desk and asked to use my calipers. So, I reached in my desk and pulled out my vernier calipers and handed them over. It took this moron a minute of playing with them before he finally handed them back and asked me to measure the part he was holding. For those who don't play with these things, there are three basic types of calipers, electronic (big digital readout), dial, and vernier. Unfortunately the young morons never bothered to learn to read the vernier type because the others are easier to read, kind of like people who cant tell time on a clock with hands because all they have ever known are digital clocks. The really sad part is after some kindly laughing by everyone in the office I offer to explain how a vernier caliper is used and he declined saying that all of his calipers were digital. Morons! I swear our future looks dimmer and dimmer the older I get. Nobody seems to bother to learn anything just for the sake of expanding themselves.

 

Next time somebody comes by to ask for a calculator, I'm gonna hand them the old slide rule I keep around just for fun!

Yeah - I used to feel all smug about my expertice with buggy whips and Ox cart rigging, until those young whipper snappers

started asking about networking on 3g versus 4g and WIFI compatability and RAM and EEPROMS and all that tech wiz stuff

they seem to like.

 

Then it came to me - they live in today's world, which apparently has moved on quite a bit since I was important.

 

ah well - maybe the past will come back again and I'll know more then they do . . . . .

 

Shadow Catcher (whose still struggling to accept that we are now in the 21st century!)

[Texas Lizard]

I'm sitting at my desk and a QC inspector came by my desk and asked to use my calipers. So, I reached in my desk and pulled out my vernier calipers and handed them over. It took this moron a minute of playing with them before he finally handed them back and asked me to measure the part he was holding. For those who don't play with these things, there are three basic types of calipers, electronic (big digital readout), dial, and vernier. Unfortunately the young morons never bothered to learn to read the vernier type because the others are easier to read, kind of like people who cant tell time on a clock with hands because all they have ever known are digital clocks. The really sad part is after some kindly laughing by everyone in the office I offer to explain how a vernier caliper is used and he declined saying that all of his calipers were digital. Morons! I swear our future looks dimmer and dimmer the older I get. Nobody seems to bother to learn anything just for the sake of expanding themselves.

 

Next time somebody comes by to ask for a calculator, I'm gonna hand them the old slide rule I keep around just for fun!

 

In stead of a slide rule how about pencil and paper...Maybe using what sits between there ears might be a better start...Who has all my clocks have hands...

 

Texas Lizard

[Noz]

Yeah - I used to feel all smug about my expertice with buggy whips and Ox cart rigging, until those young whipper snappers

started asking about networking on 3g versus 4g and WIFI compatability and RAM and EEPROMS and all that tech wiz stuff

they seem to like.

 

Then it came to me - they live in today's world, which apparently has moved on quite a bit since I was important.

 

ah well - maybe the past will come back again and I'll know more then they do . . . . .

 

Shadow Catcher (whose still struggling to accept that we are now in the 21st century!)

 

but when their batteries go dead because the electricity is out, you'll still be functional.

[Marshal Phil DeGrave SASS #55202]

but when their batteries go dead because the electricity is out, you'll still be functional.

 

 

 

 

Yep, Kentucky Windage !!!

[Capt. James H. Callahan]

I had to use a big 24" pair of veniers at work last week. I have to admit, it took a minute because I hadn't used them in a while. I was in a store a while back and the "amount tendered" part of the register evidently was not working. I finally had to tell the young feller how much change he owed me. Most kids today have no clue how to count back change from the amount purchased to the amount you gave them......

 

Yeah, that gets amusing sometimes. I was in the checkout line at a "dollar store" last week, and this gal had some kind of debit card that had $1.50 left. Her purchase was 2.28. The young male cashier had to call a manager to find a calculator and figure out how to enter it in the register! I politely told him that was 78 cents but he didn't seem to believe me and we all had to wait for the manager!

 

You're right, they are totally clueless about counting back change. If they ring up $19.77 and you give them a twenty and two pennies it will blow their mind right out their ears! Of course they should still be able to enter $20.02 in the register even if they can't count change, but they usually stand there dumbfounded wondering what the two pennies are for!

 

Welcome to the 21st century.

JHC

[That Masked Man]

I remember when GPS navigation came out, I was all like "what, can't find your way with a map?!"

 

My seafaring brother goes "map? You can't navigate by the stars with a sextant?"

 

I guess time and technology move on. Used a map today, but the GPS is easier and faster. I still figure change in my head though, money is too precious to trust to computers!

[Pack Saddle Slim, SASS #73122]

I used to teach a "Horse and Mule Packing" class at a university for Forestry majors, Recreation Administration majors, Natural Resource majors, etc....people who would be getting seasonal jobs with the Forest Service, Park Service, BLM, private outfitters, ad infinitum.

 

Anyway, we would explain at the beginning of each term that this was a class on how to tie all sorts of different loads on pack animals, and that if you could tie your shoes, you could learn to tie the diamond hitch.

 

Now, here's the scary part...we are raising a generation where some people do not know how to tie their shoes!!!! Seriously. They haven't had to. We are living in an age where many shoes are either just slip-ons or are attached with Velcroe.

[Subdeacon Joe]

Yeah - I used to feel all smug about my expertice with buggy whips and Ox cart rigging, until those young whipper snappers

started asking about networking on 3g versus 4g and WIFI compatability and RAM and EEPROMS and all that tech wiz stuff

they seem to like.

 

Then it came to me - they live in today's world, which apparently has moved on quite a bit since I was important.

 

ah well - maybe the past will come back again and I'll know more then they do . . . . .

 

Shadow Catcher (whose still struggling to accept that we are now in the 21st century!)

 

But there is a huge difference between knowing all the cutting edge electronic stuff and knowing basic math (add, subtract, mulitply, divide), and simple tools like the vernier caliper.

 

Back in the early 80s I was using a slide rule in my geology field classes, got laughed at by my partners with their calculators. Until we took a little tumble down a slope. Dusted off my slide rule, it was fine. Their calculators were toast. Also, with the reliance on computers and calculators and such, we are losing the idea of process, and often by not knowing the process, errors are taken as accurate.

 

If you know how to make buggy whips and load and lash down an oxcart so that the load is secure and won't shift, you know things that can apply in other areas. If you only know how to punch buttons, well, you know how to punch buttons.

[ShadowCatcher]

But there is a huge difference between knowing all the cutting edge electronic stuff and knowing basic math (add, subtract, mulitply, divide), and simple tools like the vernier caliper.

 

Back in the early 80s I was using a slide rule in my geology field classes, got laughed at by my partners with their calculators. Until we took a little tumble down a slope. Dusted off my slide rule, it was fine. Their calculators were toast. Also, with the reliance on computers and calculators and such, we are losing the idea of process, and often by not knowing the process, errors are taken as accurate.

 

If you know how to make buggy whips and load and lash down an oxcart so that the load is secure and won't shift, you know things that can apply in other areas. If you only know how to punch buttons, well, you know how to punch buttons.

No question about that Pard - you're right.

 

I hire college grad engineers all the time (or at least when the Gov't is letting contracts) and get to

deal with difference between book knowledge versus real engineering experience all the time.

 

I also get to deal with the tolerable housebroken subhumans who can barely do checkbook math in

public as well, and I have to bite my tongue in frustration with their intellectual handicaps and shortfalls.

 

My point is that unless we face the apocalypse and revert back to a more primitive society, (in which case all of

us using modern medicines will be dead in a year), the new knowledge required to function is far surpassing

the old knowledge, and the breadth and depth of what one has to learn is significantly far past what was considered

adequate 30 - 50 years ago.

 

There are many examples of this - the most obvious being what is involved in tuning a car to run well.

Back in the day you had to know how to set breaker points, set dwell, etc. using simple tools, and you did

that every 5,000 - 10,000 miles or so. Now you do that using a computer and modern tools in a shop with a

white tiled floor and wearing a lab coat - but you only do it every 100,000 miles.

 

Time moves on - the knowledge base expands, the tool kit grows in leaps and bounds and we all have to learn

a bunch to stay effective. It is a grand thing.

 

Me - I'm learning to use a sextant, to navigate by sun and star, because it matters to me - it's fun. I hope I'm never

lost at sea and need it though. In the old days folks died exploring and getting lost in the woods, now if the GPS

breaks - they pick up the cell phone and call. Or the locator beacon, or what ever tool is available. Most of the time

they are rescued before the batteries die. This is good.

 

I am all about progress. All about it. But I do laugh at the thirty-somethings who think they're about to conquer the world.

They will, but it will take a little longer than they think . . .

 

Shadow Catcher

[Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172]

Learning to cypher is an acquired SKILL.

 

There is no substitute for an acquired skill. It belongs to you. As long as you are functional and alert, you possess it. A computer or calculator is only as durable as it's power source.

 

I have heard arguments that it is easier to teach a child to use electronics to do problems, as well as faster. History is not taught because so much has happened in the last forty years that they have no time to learn about things that happened before that. Without these skills and information, then next generation is handicapped. They have no idea where they have been and why they are going where they are going. Education without wisdom is wasted.

Just my opinion.

[Iron Pony]

Badger makes a good point that I have run into training people. Read the operations manual and the SOGs, understand them but dont refer to them unless you need to. LEARN how to do what you need to without resorting to notes, cheat sheets etc then the computer between your ears can get to the information faster thten any machine on your desk. The batteries wont run down and it wont matter if the power goes out or you get a new operating system.

[Crazy Gun Barney, SASS #2428]

I guess it boils down to an old saying, "give a man a fish and you feed him for a day, teach a man to fish and you feed him for life". It is great, important, and in many cases vital to know how to function using all the trapping of the science fiction lives we lead every day. I say we are living a "science fiction" life because many of the items we use on a daily basis were the props from science fiction of our youth. However, how many people do you know who would be completely lost without these modern toys? I know sales guys in our company who simply shut down if their blackberry isn't working, or their laptop crashes. They cannot function in their job without these. I design stuff, I am an engineer in my "non cowboy" life. Without my computer and CAD programs, I am not lost. I can design, draw, and convey to others my designs and thoughts using a pencil, paper, and straight edge, and have had to on many occasions. It isn't as quick as the computer, and the pictures may not be as pretty but I can complete and submit my daily duties to the manufacturing group without my computer when necessary. I have found this to be an invaluable skill, and a skill that is much sought after. When hiring new engineers, one of the first things I do is hand them a pencil and paper and ask them to draw a cube, and to generate the flat pattern assuming the cube was to be made of sheet metal. This is a very simple exercise, but one that not many can do.

 

I applaud anybody who can explain the technical differences between 3G and 4G (I prefer to explain the differences between 3f and 2f). But I have more respect for somebody who can start a fire without matches.

 

You have to know how something is done before you can use a "shortcut tool" to do it and have any confidence in the result.

[Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172]

My point exactly, Barney.

Because you have a skill, does not mean that you HAVE to use it. It means that you CAN use it. You are in charge of the situation. If you are dependent on outside support, you are just that dependent.

 

Two things come to mind. World War II. History and logistics. A lot of children of the post war era will think to themselves, outdated time and not pertinent to today. Not to be political, but today is a

result of a lot of the things that took place in WWII and because of the logistics of the time.

[Yellowhouse Sam # 25171]

They ought to teach a courses in Life Skills. Everything learned today is by pushing buttons. I have to laugh at the people who buy new, but unsharpened hoes and shovels at Lowes,etc. I know they rarely ever get sharpened cause I see them at garage sales with the same blunt edge. I guess they think you just beat weeds to death.

 

Sam,

Who hated hoes and shovels as a young un but glad that I do know how to sharpen those and other tools. Sadly, I never learned how to properly set and sharpen a handsaw but thats next on my to do list. Dad never had a sawset...just had it done. Speaking of handsaws, we needed a 1x6 shortened a tad. Before my soninlaw could get the skilsaw plugged in I blazed through it with a razor sharp Disston....yep, don't make em like they used to.

 

And I liked that engineering test.....weeds out the ones lacking common sense.

[Subdeacon Joe]

No question about that Pard - you're right.

 

I hire college grad engineers all the time (or at least when the Gov't is letting contracts) and get to

deal with difference between book knowledge versus real engineering experience all the time.

 

I also get to deal with the tolerable housebroken subhumans who can barely do checkbook math in

public as well, and I have to bite my tongue in frustration with their intellectual handicaps and shortfalls.

 

My point is that unless we face the apocalypse and revert back to a more primitive society, (in which case all of

us using modern medicines will be dead in a year), the new knowledge required to function is far surpassing

the old knowledge, and the breadth and depth of what one has to learn is significantly far past what was considered

adequate 30 - 50 years ago.

 

There are many examples of this - the most obvious being what is involved in tuning a car to run well.

Back in the day you had to know how to set breaker points, set dwell, etc. using simple tools, and you did

that every 5,000 - 10,000 miles or so. Now you do that using a computer and modern tools in a shop with a

white tiled floor and wearing a lab coat - but you only do it every 100,000 miles.

 

Time moves on - the knowledge base expands, the tool kit grows in leaps and bounds and we all have to learn

a bunch to stay effective. It is a grand thing.

 

Me - I'm learning to use a sextant, to navigate by sun and star, because it matters to me - it's fun. I hope I'm never

lost at sea and need it though. In the old days folks died exploring and getting lost in the woods, now if the GPS

breaks - they pick up the cell phone and call. Or the locator beacon, or what ever tool is available. Most of the time

they are rescued before the batteries die. This is good.

 

I am all about progress. All about it. But I do laugh at the thirty-somethings who think they're about to conquer the world.

They will, but it will take a little longer than they think . . .

 

Shadow Catcher

 

Thank you, sir. And you too make some very good points, none of which I would argue with. I think technology is great, I'm not knocking it. But take your "lost in the woods" example. Chances are if you are way the hell and gone out enough to get really lost you are out of cell phone range of anything. So if your GPS isn't working, you are tough out of luck. But if you have your low tech back ups of map and compass, and have been a bit observant, you should be able to navigate your way out.

 

I think my big concern is that the basics, the foundations and fundamentals are being lost. And thinking seems to be going out of fashion.

Power is out? No electricity for your electric stove or microwave? Heck, use your dutch oven in your fireplace - had to tell several neighbors about that one, or to break out their camping gear and cook with that. My stepson was visiting with his grandmother one year, and a flood broke the water lines. Went to the store to buy some water, it was sold out. Oh, what to do? We need some water! He suggested that they buy some big bags of ice. Got looked at like he was crazy - until he pointed out that they could melt the ice and have water.

[Forty Rod SASS 3935]

I remember when GPS navigation came out, I was all like "what, can't find your way with a map?!"

 

My seafaring brother goes "map? You can't navigate by the stars with a sextant?"

 

I guess time and technology move on. Used a map today, but the GPS is easier and faster. I still figure change in my head though, money is too precious to trust to computers!

 

I gave a sextant to my wife's boss for Christmas last year. He'd been a Coast Guard navigator before he turned to full time lawyering about 25years ago and I thought he'd like it.

 

He looked it over and told me "the Captain of my last ship had one of these framed over his desk. I've never seen one used."

 

BTW, I have navigated using compass and chronometer, star charts, sea charts, land maps, land marks, written directions, sketches, dead reckoning, and a sextant, but my daughter gave me a GPS gizmo and I couldn't figure out how to work it, so she exchanged it for a CD player, radio for the living room and she uses the GPS gizmo.

 

Now I generally either know where I'm going or get a Google map before I leave. Forgot most of the rest.

[Capt. James H. Callahan]

I remember reading a story years ago in Larry Woller's "Shots at Whitetails" where the author came across a tinhorn lost in the woods. Asking if he at least had a compass, the intrepid traveler took one out, and after waiting for it to settle down asked "OK, now what?"

 

"Well, nothing of course. You haven't looked at it all day, have you?"

 

"Well, no. I just thought you could look at it and tell which way to go."

 

I can't use a sextant, but when we used to go backpacking into wilderness areas in NM and Colorado, we ALWAYS took Geological Survey topo maps and a decent compass. I do remember enough geometry to be able to find my way in the boonies if I have those.

 

We do have a Tom Tom, and it's right handy for navigating in a big city. It is a little squirrely until you learn its lingo (e.g. "keep right" doesn't mean "take the right exit".) Still, beats trying to read a map in big city freeway traffic.

 

JHC

[Sheriff Oso, SASS #57788L]

It seems to me that kids these days have no "problem solving skills" for one very simple reason. They dont have to solve problems.

 

If they have a question, they look up the answer on the Internet (Wikipedia or WikiAnswers etc).

 

If they have a PROBLEM, the pick up their cell phone (and usually call mom or dad!) and ask for a solution.

 

Kid gets a flat tire. Instead of getting the manual from the glove box, the tools and doing the job, they call someone.

 

It is so easy for them to ask that they never learn how to figure it out for themselves (cash registers, calculators, GPS, Internet, Cell phones etc)

 

BUT, when the EMP ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_pulse ) hits, and the GRID goes down, they are all gonna be TOAST (and us old farts will eat what's left of their food!!).

 

FWIW..YMMV..SOso

[Abilene Slim SASS 81783]

Technology does tend to be the proverbial tail wagging the dog. We never knew we needed or wanted (fill in the blank), but over time we find we can't live without it. What was once a luxury is now a necessity.

[J-BAR #18287]

I love this thread!

 

 

I still have my Keuffel and Esser Log/Log Duplex Decitrig slide rule that I used in my Chem. Eng. classes.

 

Gonna take it out and play a tune on it tonight, just for old time's sake.

[Abilene Slim SASS 81783]

I love this thread!

 

 

I still have my Keuffel and Esser Log/Log Duplex Decitrig slide rule that I used in my Chem. Eng. classes.

 

Gonna take it out and play a tune on it tonight, just for old time's sake.

I still have my "whiz wheel" (E6B flight computer). What's amazing about slide rules is that people could think them up in the first place.

 

I still have a complete drafting set with ruling pens and the set of Rapidograph pens that replaced them.

 

Anyone out there remember making blueprints by developing them in a tube of ammonia fumes?

[Forty Rod SASS 3935]

I love this thread!

 

 

I still have my Keuffel and Esser Log/Log Duplex Decitrig slide rule that I used in my Chem. Eng. classes.

 

Gonna take it out and play a tune on it tonight, just for old time's sake.

 

Somewhere around here I have a Post Versalog slip stick from high school and my old drafting set including an engineer's rule, triangles, protractors, metal templates, and French curves. I have a couple of the pencil sharpeners with the sandpaper cones, too.

[Noz]

BUT, when the EMP hits, and the GRID goes down, they are all gonna be TOAST (and us old farts will eat what's left of their food!!).

 

FWIW..YMMV..SOso

 

That EMP is a very real worry. any of the third world nuclear powers could take out civilization. With a couple of high altitude nukes. Every computer, including those in your automobiles is toast and cannot be repaired. Now what?

[Abilene Slim SASS 81783]

That EMP is a very real worry. any of the third world nuclear powers could take out civilization. With a couple of high altitude nukes. Every computer, including those in your automobiles is toast and cannot be repaired. Now what?

Sounds like we'd have to return to living like the 19th century. I've the clothes and a few guns... Then we'd get to see if we're as tough as we think we are.

[Apache Hawk 60642]

Know what ya mean.

 

Had a young sales lady come to da house da other day, wantin' to sell us somethin' or nother bout da phone.

 

Da wifey accepted her deal and she asked wifey ifin' she could she our phone to call da order in.

 

Now we still have an old dail phone....

 

Da young sales lady looked at wifey and said, "Uh...How do you use this??"

 

I just went into da other room and laughed my a%# off !!!!