A question of Times

[Kiowa Kid, SASS #69870L]

Howdy,

I have been wondering what is considered fast, I don't mean the time of the whole stage but breaking it down by components, ie: pistol rifle and shotgun. What I'm looking for are times for the set of pistols on a nevada sweep, the rifle on a 10 shot nevada sweep and shotgun on 4 shot any order knockdowns.

 

The times for the Pistols,Rifle and Shotgun on a one shotgun drill starting from the surrender position, what are considered quick times?

 

Just something to think about.

 

Thanks

KK

[I. M. Crossdraw, SASS# 8321]

These can vary from club to club or shoots. You have to take into account target size, distances of targets, target spacing and etc.... I really don't bother with these as nobody knows how fast you can shoot it until you get there and shoot at it. JMO. Others may have other opinions on these. Even at my home club, we vary the distances of targets, target size and etc. If you are curious about this, try it at your home club, this may give you an idea of the times. See you.

[Kiowa Kid, SASS #69870L]

Howdy,

Thanks for the response but somebody has an idea of what they think if fast, for example from a surrender postion at the buzzer pickup shotgun load two engage a set of knockdowns, what would be a fast time? What is the time from buzzer to first shot? Stuff like that.

If you need defined limits lets use minimum SASS distance using recommended SASS targets 16x16.

 

Thanks

KK

 

These can vary from club to club or shoots. You have to take into account target size, distances of targets, target spacing and etc.... I really don't bother with these as nobody knows how fast you can shoot it until you get there and shoot at it. JMO. Others may have other opinions on these. Even at my home club, we vary the distances of targets, target size and etc. If you are curious about this, try it at your home club, this may give you an idea of the times. See you.

[Creeker, SASS #43022]

Do you mean fast? Or FAAASSSSSTTTTTT?

Take a look at the world records page for the top of the game.

 

But generally - I would say if a shooter can run:

a rifle 10 shot Nevada sweep under three seconds.

a pistol 10 shot Nevada sweep under four seconds.

a shotgun 4 shot string under four seconds.

 

If a shooter can do the above - I would feel comfortable calling them a fast shooter.

[Push the button Wyatt]

Gulp !!! I didn't know we were soposed to shoot FAST.

[Cheyenne Ranger, 48747L]

I can draw my first pistol in less than 10 seconds....on a good day :-)

[Gold Canyon Kid #43974]

Around here at a monthly match, a shooter engaging a 10-10-4 stage with at least two moves on about SASS recommended sized targets toward SASS recommended minimum distances, the better shooters are doing it in about 20 seconds or so. The really fast shooters (i.e. cagtegory winners at Regional matches and above) are besting 20 seconds by 2-4 seconds. An exceptional run would be about 15 or 16 seconds. Lots and lots of shooters are doing this stage in 30 seconds, with many doing it in 25 seconds. On a good day I can run such a stage in about 25 seconds more or less, and am not considered a fast shooter but usually shoot it clean at that kind of time. Any little bobble or lots of movement can add several seconds to my time as I seem to average closer to 28 or more seconds on such stages. When I go to clubs with longer range/smaller targets, my times slow down by several seconds. On stages allowing multiple hits on both rifle and pistol targets like double or triple taps I can sometimes pick up a couple of seconds. Hope this helps.

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

Do you mean fast? Or FAAASSSSSTTTTTT?

Take a look at the world records page for the top of the game.

 

But generally - I would say if a shooter can run:

a rifle 10 shot Nevada sweep under three seconds.

a pistol 10 shot Nevada sweep under four seconds.

a shotgun 4 shot string under four seconds.

 

If a shooter can do the above - I would feel comfortable calling them a fast shooter.

 

Damn! I'm a slug!!!

 

I would put reasonable times at:

 

Rifle: Less then 4 seconds (from port arms)

Pistol: less then 5 seconds (Hands on hat)

SG: Less then 5 seconds (Port arms)

 

Now Speed Side Matches will yield slightly lower times...but they ain't match times or even close.

 

Do these time consistantly and you'd be near or at the top most of the time.

 

[Creeker, SASS #43022]

Damn! I'm a slug!!!

 

I would put reasonable times at:

 

Rifle: Less then 4 seconds (from port arms)

Pistol: less then 5 seconds (Hands on hat)

SG: Less then 5 seconds (Port arms)

 

Now Speed Side Matches will yield slightly lower times...but they ain't match times or even close.

 

Do these time consistantly and you'd be near or at the top most of the time.

 

 

 

Phantom - I have only shot with you once, but I am pretty sure no one has ever called you a slug.

 

I don't consider myself a fast guy, so I chopped a second or two off of my times to come up with my scale. But even those times (for me) would require big and close targets.

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

Phantom - I have only shot with you once, but I am pretty sure no one has ever called you a slug.

 

I don't consider myself a fast guy, so I chopped a second or two off of my times to come up with my scale. But even those times (for me) would require big and close targets.

 

You're a fast shooter...other then pistols which will be slower shooting one-handed, the times you shoot are pretty close to anyone.

 

[Arcadia Outlaw, SASS 71385]

Damn! I'm a slug!!!

 

I would put reasonable times at:

 

Rifle: Less then 4 seconds (from port arms)

Pistol: less then 5 seconds (Hands on hat)

SG: Less then 5 seconds (Port arms)

 

Now Speed Side Matches will yield slightly lower times...but they ain't match times or even close.

 

Do these time consistantly and you'd be near or at the top most of the time.

 

 

 

 

Yeah I see these as more reasonable during a stage run but shotgun should be closer to 4 sec.Of course as said speed side events you'll see those times drop considerable.

 

 

Theres a few out there though that can run stages 10-10-4 around 13 sec. depending on scenario.

 

 

 

AO

[Widder, SASS #59054]

Phantom's and Creeker's post made me want to put down side match times vs. real match times.

 

SIDE MATCH (or practice times out on the farm)

 

pistols holsters (hands on pistols), 10 shots, Nevada sweep OR progressive sweeps:

best time: 2.64 seconds. Normal practice times (and side match times): around 3.75 - 4.25

Hey, I ran a progressive sweep in 3.33 at GOA this year and still got whooped up on by Bad River Marty, Deuce and Lassiter. Now we know who eat their Cheerios for breakfast that day. hehehe

 

rifle from port arms, 10 shots, progressive sweep

best time: 2.72 seconds. Normall practice times: 3.25 - 3.5

 

SG (97) from port arms, 4 shots

best times: 3.25. Normal practice times: 3.8 - 4.2

 

SG (97) from pick up off table, 4 shots

best time: 3.80

 

SG (97) from pick up off table, 6 shots at GOA 2010

winning time: 6.50

 

 

Actual MATCH times:

pistols: 5 seconds

rifle: 3.5

SG: 4 - 5 seconds (unless I drop my shells)

 

 

..........Widder

[Creeker, SASS #43022]

Theres a few out there though that can run stages 10-10-4 around 13 sec. depending on scenario.

AO

 

Tho to be honest, 10 - 10 - 4 in 13 seconds means running individual gun times faster than noted because that time is including transition times as well.

 

Stand and deliver 10-10-4's for me are 17-18 second affairs if I do everything right.

And doing everything right is still rare enough to feel really good when it does happen.

 

 

I know it seems obvious, but the improvements become a lot more difficult the lower your times go.

45 to 25 took some work - 25 to 20 was a lot more work - 20 to 18 has been harder.

I don't know if getting to 15 or 16 is in my skillset.

[Arcadia Outlaw, SASS 71385]

Tho to be honest, 10 - 10 - 4 in 13 seconds means running individual gun times faster than noted because that time is including transition times as well.

 

Stand and deliver 10-10-4's for me are 17-18 second affairs if I do everything right.

And doing everything right is still rare enough to feel really good when it does happen.

 

 

I know it seems obvious, but the improvements become a lot more difficult the lower your times go.

45 to 25 took some work - 25 to 20 was a lot more work - 20 to 18 has been harder.

I don't know if getting to 15 or 16 is in my skillset.

 

 

 

I think fella asked what was fast ,I posted some really good times above,if you could run those consistantly & clean and can move really well between guns you'll do really well.Down here in FL we have a couple shooters that will brake 14 sec. with some movement between guns & then about 1/2 dozen guys that can run stages 14-16 sec.range with some movement of course depending on scenario & target arrangement ,your right though of course guns are shot faster.

 

 

 

AO

[Creeker, SASS #43022]

if you could run those consistantly & clean and can move really well between guns you'll do really well.

AO

 

If I could just shoot clean at 18 seconds on any kind of regular basis - my big match results would be much more impressive.

Do we have a "I choke at big matches" icon?

[Arcadia Outlaw, SASS 71385]

If I could just shoot clean at 18 seconds on any kind of regular basis - my big match results would be much more impressive.

Do we have a "I choke at big matches" icon?

 

Well Creeker I'm talkin two handed,you shoot one handed from what I understand.

 

Except for my first big match & my last big match I seemed to never shoot the way I normally do for whatever reason so I know the feeling,LOL.

 

 

 

AO

[Grizzly Dave]

If Phantom is a slug, I'm not sure what that make me...

 

What's about 5 times slower than a slug?

 

[Assassin]

I'm changing my alias to "Sloth".

 

 

 

LL'

[Doc Shapiro]

There's fast and then there's fast.

 

You got some good times listed above. Who would you like to compare to?

 

Stage times encompass not just the times for individual guns but also require transitions.

 

When you get to stage times in a match, you got issues with the grey matter between your ears too.

 

There's a lot involved in shooting consistently fast.

 

Lots of info on my web site may help you. http://www.jspublications.net Disclaimer: I have nothing for sale there.

[Fast Enuff]

Let's break down a video of a spectacular world record attempt. It's more informative than just a side speed match but less subjective than a match stage with movement.

 

There are a many world record videos out there of very fast shooters but only a few with excellent view, angle and a clear view of the timer. This classic one is still one of my favorites. There is a whole lot to learn from in this vid:

 

The timer and each shot is clearly visible.

 

Breakdown:

 

Beep.

Time to first shot: 1.2 (or so... hard to read)

Pistols - shooting time first shot to last: 3.15

Transition time from pistols to first rifle shot: 0.71

Rifle - shooting time first shot to last: 3.43

Transition time to first shotgun shot: 1.98

Shotgun - shooting time first shot to last: 2.39

 

Several things of note. This is a record run, so the shooter knows the stage and has shot it... a lot. Times will be unrealistically near the maximum possible, compared to a regular match stage, as the shooter has done this many times in succession. Also there is no concern for misses or fumbles as he can just try again.

 

It is stand and deliver, no movement to subjectively alter times.

 

You might want to combine certain times by adding transitions for a better picture:

 

Pistols - double tap 5 targets total time from beep to draw and fire 10 rounds: 4.35 seconds

Rifle - double tap 5 targets total time to pick up rifle and fire 10 rounds: 4.14

Shotgun - 4 knockdowns total time to pick up shotgun from table pull shells and fire 4 rounds: 4.37

 

The reason I like numbers like this more is that we are usually doing more than one thing at a time and are trying to keep both hands busy. The shotgun for instance was in a more realistic condition where the shooter had to put down a rifle while also picking up the shotgun and shells. That's more like a regular stage than a speed shotgun side match. And still crazy FAST.

 

Note: my numbers are off by a few hundredths because I couldn't read one of the pistol split times.

 

So in my book, this is what I call fast. Very, very fast.

 

Did this help?

[Guest Texas Jack Black]

What is considered to be fast ?? Look at the scores shooters compile at major matches around the country. You will then see what fast is.

 

 

T J B

[Christopher Carson]

What is considered to be fast ?? Look at the scores shooters compile at major matches around the country. You will then see what fast is.

 

When I bother to pay attention to scores (maybe once a year or so), I usually divide my total time by my targets (number of shots fired) in a given match... so the ratio also includes movement, transitions, and over time it seems to be as representative as I need. If my ratio is improving, good. If stable, acceptable. If deteriorating... I have extra beer after the match.

 

-Chris