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Holy Black lever action cleaning...


Blacky Montana SASS # 19953

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Hey Pards,

 

I have just recently discovered that there is a group of BPCR (black powder cartridge rifle) shooters having a match at my local gun club once a month. I went and spent the day with them last weekend during their shoot and had a blast. What a really great bunch of guys they are. After having a few of them let me shoot their Sharps & Rolling Block rifles, I was instantly hooked....lol. Once we get into the new year, I will definitely me getting me a single shot "smoke pole" so I can join in on the fun. In the meantime the guys told me that I should bring my Marlin 1895 .45-70, so that I could go ahead and start shooting with them now. As long as I'm shooting black powder the 1895 is allowed.

 

This brings me to my question. We all know that black powder is much more corrosive than smokeless powders, therefore we always clean our bp firearms as soon as a days shooting is over. With single shots or muzzleloaders clean up is rather quick and easy, with all or most components being easy to get to. Not so much the same case with a lever action. Now I will admit that until now I have never fired BP out of my .45-70 lever gun, but that is about to change. What I would like to know from other lever gun BP shooters, is how far do you take your rifle apart after shooting for cleaning? Do you always remove the lever and bolt assembly? Do you disassemble the bolt itself?

 

Thanks,

Blacky

#19956

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When I shoot BP lever rifle I use a Rossi 92. I have never taken it part to clean it. It has only been taken apart to replace a broken firing pin. I did not do it. I had it done.

 

Now with the 92 I shoot both smokeless and BP with it. Before I shoot Bp I clean the rifle best I can to get all smokeless fouling, lube, lead if any out of the gun. I don't want any smokeless stuff baked in when shooting BP.

 

After shooting BP, I clean with soap and water. I don't use Murphy's oil or any other oil until I have completely cleaned with soap and water. I rinse with as hot as I can get it from the tap water. Then I dry with a rag and push a few patches down the barrel. Give it a few minutes to dry and then I soak the inside and outside with WD-40 to get all the water out. Wipe down and let sit for a day or two. Then depending on what I will be shooting next, I will greese and or lube the moving parts before heading out.

 

I do take the stock off every couple of years. One bolt holds it on. I put the receiver down in to boiling water just about to the forearm wood. I dip it several times until the run off is clear. Then I WD-40 as before.

 

If you watch the insides of the action you can actually see the steel parts dry and then start turning orange as they begin to rust. This is when the WD-40 comes in to stop that and put a protective coating on all parts. Every thing gets sprayed. I even do the wood.

 

Before you all get excited, this is a working gun. Nothing special. It has been shooting sass matches since 1992. 3 to 6 matches a month. It has not failed me jet. I have forgotten to swab the barrel after three stages during a match or two. That's my failure. Not the guns.

 

First of the year I will be trying some of the substitutes. Mostly to work up loads for my business. ANd to see which metters best with best average velocity and accuracy.

 

Right not loading APP. Already don't like the FFg. Doesn't meter well. Bridges far too often in the powder funnel. Will try FFFg next.

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We all know that black powder is much more corrosive than smokeless powders, therefore we always clean our bp firearms as soon as a days shooting is over.

 

Howdy

 

Your assumption is incorrect. It was the combination of corrosive primers and Black Powder that made Black Powder fouling so corrosive in the old days. Now that we no longer use corrosive primers, BP fouling is far less corrosive than you think.

 

There are a couple of tricks to use. First, if you shoot a cartridge that seals the chamber well, cleaning a lever gun fired with BP is just as simple as cleaning a muzzle loader. If you can keep all the fouling in the pipe, there is none that gets down into the mechanism to worry about. The second trick to be aware of is that if you can infuse BP fouling with oil, it looses its ability to draw moisture out of the atmosphere. BP fouling does its damage when it is dry. In the dry state it will soak up moisture from the air and hold it tight against the metal. It is the moisture that causes the rust, not the fouling. If you soak the fouling in oil, it is like a sponge that is already full, it cannot absorb any moisture from the air. In that case, you are holding oil against the metal, and no rust will occur.

 

I shoot 44-40 in all my lever guns. If you are going to get serious about shooting Black Powder, I suggest you look into 44-40. The case mouth is much thinner than 45 Colt, and will expand to seal the chamber perfectly under the relatively low pressure of Black Powder rounds. It is difficult to get 45 Colt to do this at low pressure, so you almost always get some blow by, allowing fouling into the mechanism.

 

My typical cleaning technique for a lever gun is to pop an empty case in the chamber and close the action. Then I stand the gun up vertically and twirl a patch soaked with my favorite water based cleaning solution down the bore. After three or four patches, they start coming out dirty gray. That means all the fouling has been washed out of the bore and into the empty case in the chamber. There is no more fouling left in the bore. I turn the gun upside down and eject the spent case along with some filthy black solvent onto the ground. Don't try this on the wife's new white carpet. At this point the bore is clean. A little swabbing with another patch around the bolt and carrier and I am done. Last step is to run a patch soaked with Ballistol down the bore, followed by a dry patch. Be sure to leave a light coating of Ballistol in the bore, just a light coating. Lastly, work some Ballistol into the guts of the rifle, to infuse any fouling that got into the action with oil. That's it, total time spent about ten minutes.

 

Maybe once a year I take my guns down 100% to clean out all the black, oily guck inside. There is always plenty of black, oily guck, there is never any rust.

 

P.S. If you use my empty case in the chamber trick, do not use a jag with your cleaning rod. Use the slotted end of the rod. A jag is pretty well guaranteed to jam the patch in the case mouth, resulting in much gnashing of teeth.

 

P.P.S. If I don't get around to cleaning my guns the same day, I try to do it within a week. I won't tell you how long I have actually gone without cleaning them. If you wait a day or two, the fouling is actually easier to clean out than if you attack it right away.

 

Of course, all this depends on you using a bullet with plenty of BP compatible bullet lube on it. If you use regular hard cast bullets with hard cast bullet lube, all bets are off.

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Everyone is suggesting you shoot 44-40, which would be fine for CAS, but you have a 45-70. The case is pretty long, and as long as you use fairly full charges, the case should seal the chamber. As they mentioned, little comes back into the action (except with 45 Colt). Almost none comes back with 44-40. Light as the Marlin is, it kicks pretty hard in 45-70, but if you later get a fairly heavy barrelled single shot, Sharps, Rolling Block or Highwall, the recoil won't be so bad.

 

If you clean the barrel without letting the water/Ballistol or whatever run back into the action, you should be OK. I would use Ballistol or Break-Free rather than WD-40, which is not good for long term storage, it dries into a sticky varnish.

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For your Marlin-specific questions: I take the screw that holds the lever out, pull out the lever, slide out the bolt and take out the hairpin thingy. Into a tub of Murphy's Mix (1/3 each alcohol, hydrogen perioxide and Murphy's Oil Soap) that has been heated to just barely a boil I put the hairpin thingy and the bolt. I slosh patches in the Mix and shove 'em around inside the receiver and a few more down the barrel with a jag. Mop up with dry patches. I toothbrush the bolt and blow it out with my compressor. Check the locking lug as sometimes crude makes it's way back there with straight wall cases. Eezox is what I use to oil with, I really like it as it prevents rust. I put a little dribble down the inside of the bolt, too. Once you get a "system" down, cleaning the rifle takes maybe 10 minutes. Marlins are easy as it's just one screw and 3 loose parts.

 

Driftwood is right about 44-40, I do the same thing as with my .45 and wonder why I bothered....... nothing in the receiver..... I just clean it because you are supposed to clean your guns!

 

I shoot a match almost every weekend during the season (we don't shoot much in the winter here) and take the bolt apart 2 or 3 times which works out to maybe every two months or eight matches.

 

Watch the tube, that is the place that seems to get rust and the spring gets nasty, too. I got a stainless spring and Eezox'd the tube and that has helped a bunch. The local weather is a big factor. I shoot in humid New England and in dry Arizona. In the dry climate, I need a little extra Ballistol or Bore Butter in the barrel to keep the fouling soft for the day. Dry, crusty fouling is the enemy of accuracy and a PITA to clean up. Soft goo cleans right up.

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Do you always remove the lever and bolt assembly? Do you disassemble the bolt itself?

No, not necessary. Why? The only foul in the receiver area is from blow back and this can easily be cleaned without disassemble

The bore ... buy a hand steam cleaner. Add a squirt of Dawn to the water - plug the cleaner in. Spray the chamber-bore and the receiver area with the steam. Shop swab the inside of the receiver -bolt face area and front of magazine tube in receiver with Eezox - run a dry patch down the bore and then patch with Eezox. Wipe outside metal with a shop rag that has Eezox on it. Done

Eezox is a cleaner - lube and rust preventive

 

My workhorse '92 Rossi was only disassembled once in about 10,000 rounds for cleaning. Was surprised the innards were really not that dirty

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Ok.... That's kind of what I thought. The main cleaning is in the barrel, with no need to tear down after every shooting. I've shot BP in all of my Hawken's & Mountain rifles for years, so i am use to dealing with the nasty black clean up....lol. But this will be something new for my .45-70 lever gun.

 

Flint...you are correct. The .45-70 can definitely have a nasty kick at times, especially with full power smokeless loads. Try shooting a tube of Garrett Cartridges Hammerheads through the light Marlin. It's not for the faint hearted or the thin skinned....lol. After shooting smokeless .45-70 my entire life, it was such a shock to see how much of a difference it felt to fire BP loads through a 34 inch barrel 13.5 pound Rolling Block rifle. Good lord...never knew the big .45-70 could feel so tame. I'm gonna really love the BPCR shooting...lol.

 

Thanks everyone,

Blacky

#19956

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Driftwood is correct in the point he made about Black Powder of today. He must have over looked the part of your post concerning you were at a BPCR match. A 44-40 is what I shoot but it is not worth anything for shooting at the distance that is involved in that type of shooting. The first thing you can do is anneal your brass as it will help with several things. It will make the brass seal the chamber much better and also give the neck area a much more even hold on the bullet. Your long range accuracy will go up. If you have never read any books and by your posting I think not then that would be a good thing to do. BP Cartridge Reloading Primer by Mike Venturino and Steve Garbe of SPG lube wrote this small but good book. Also the Blackpowder Handbook 5TH edition by Sam Fadala will help. Try to find some one out of that group that you shot with to act as your mentor. It will help you over come all the little things that you need to know. I shoot 100% black powder in SASS and just plinking. To me it's the only way to go. First thing is that you load by weight and not volume. That is a thing that started with the advent of the sub powders. There was no such thing until they came along. Second is I shoot my guns on Saturday and usually don't clean them until Tuesday or Wednesday of the next week with out a problem. Look up a article on BP by Mike Raitel. Welcome to the dark side. The shooting of BP is completely different and full of steps that you need to do. After you learn them you will laugh at how easy it is and you will be able to pass it down.

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For the Marlin it's so easy to remove the bolt, plus it makes clean up alot easier. I use the Murphy's Mix (1/3 alcohol, 1/3 hydrogen perioxide, 1/3 Murphy's Oil Soap), same as Lou and DJ. I spray the bolt and the action, then wipe it clean with blue paper shop towels. Spray down the bore and pull a couple of patches. Spray, wipe, and patch with Ballistol and yer done. Good Luck

 

Jefro :P Relax-Enjoy

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Talk with your pards about slightly reduced loads in the 45-70. They may be able to help you out with the lighter Marlin. Of course, you may have less felt recoil with BP.

And since the 45-70 is slightly tapered, it should seal pretty well in the chamber.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.45-70

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Howdy Blacky!

 

I shoot real BP in my lever-action at all my Cowboy shoots. I swab out the barrel with Balistol and work a patch around the bolt face and innards the best I can after each shoot. I then give a small squirt of straight Balistol into the action at various points.

 

At the end of each season, I disassemble the rifle for a complete cleaning. As Driftwood mentioned, there is a ton of black crud inside, but it's all been rendered harmless by the Balistol. It just wipes right out. No rust!

 

I do a similar process with my revolvers. Keep it as simple as I can.

 

ol' poke.

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Talk with your pards about slightly reduced loads in the 45-70.

Using reduced BP reloads will cause more blow back. The cases will not expand fully and seal to the chamber wall

In addition, the bullet will not obturate in the grooves as it should due to the reduced pressure. To compensate, use a softer alloy which can be determined from the Brinell hardness tables. But the excessive blow back will still occur

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