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Buck D. Law, SASS #62183

I was just wondering...

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Could somebody idenify a single rifle that is usable out of the factory box. No, guns you buy tuned from Nate, Cody or Long Hunter don't count. Something that is match ready out of the box?

 

I would love to find an American made rifle I could successfully use in SASS. Only Marlin and Henry manufacture candidates, but neither of them is slick out of the box. On the other hand the Uberti 66, 73 and the Rossi 92 aren't slick out of the box either.

 

My only problem with the Big Boy is that is seems heavy to me. I don't know if anybody has ever really studied the Big Boy to see if increasing speed is possible.

 

Usable out of the box? They all are. Race-able would be a better term. Expecting to be competitive with an out-of-the-box stock gun is not likely to happen. I've said this many times. Like car racing, you can take the family sedan to the track once or twice and run hell out of it, but if you do it on a regular basis, you gonna look up and see you crankshaft in the rear-view mirror. Race cars have to be tuned to race, so do guns that are raced.

 

And, It's not so much about slick but more important they have to be reliable. Any race equipment only need to be just a little better than you. Otherwise, it's holding you back.

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Usable out of the box? They all are. Race-able would be a better term. Expecting to be competitive with an out-of-the-box stock gun is not likely to happen. I've said this many times. Like car racing, you can take the family sedan to the track once or twice and run hell out of it, but if you do it on a regular basis, you gonna look up and see you crankshaft in the rear-view mirror. Race cars have to be tuned to race, so do guns that are raced.

 

And, It's not so much about slick but more important they have to be reliable. Any race equipment only need to be just a little better than you. Otherwise, it's holding you back.

Amen.

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Usable out of the box? They all are. Race-able would be a better term. Expecting to be competitive with an out-of-the-box stock gun is not likely to happen. I've said this many times. Like car racing, you can take the family sedan to the track once or twice and run hell out of it, but if you do it on a regular basis, you gonna look up and see you crankshaft in the rear-view mirror. Race cars have to be tuned to race, so do guns that are raced.

 

And, It's not so much about slick but more important they have to be reliable. Any race equipment only need to be just a little better than you. Otherwise, it's holding you back.

Amen.

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Usable out of the box? They all are. Race-able would be a better term. Expecting to be competitive with an out-of-the-box stock gun is not likely to happen. I've said this many times. Like car racing, you can take the family sedan to the track once or twice and run hell out of it, but if you do it on a regular basis, you gonna look up and see you crankshaft in the rear-view mirror. Race cars have to be tuned to race, so do guns that are raced.

 

And, It's not so much about slick but more important they have to be reliable. Any race equipment only need to be just a little better than you. Otherwise, it's holding you back.

Amen.

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Doc Cuervo the new henry big boy also loads from the front, Which along with all the negitive posts i have seen will most likely keep me from purchasing one. I looked again at the store and the HBB i saw had no loading gate in the front, or that i could see underneith the reciever.(tho i may have missed it) The only loading feature i saw was a little gate near the muzzle.

Oops, my bad. I did see one at the gun shop today and it did have a loading port like a 22 rimfire on the tubular magazine. I take it they have not improved their quality over the ones that I tried when they first came out.

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Usable out of the box? They all are. Race-able would be a better term. Expecting to be competitive with an out-of-the-box stock gun is not likely to happen. I've said this many times. Like car racing, you can take the family sedan to the track once or twice and run hell out of it, but if you do it on a regular basis, you gonna look up and see you crankshaft in the rear-view mirror. Race cars have to be tuned to race, so do guns that are raced.

 

And, It's not so much about slick but more important they have to be reliable. Any race equipment only need to be just a little better than you. Otherwise, it's holding you back.

 

I understand your meaning. I agree 100%, but mine was a slightly different point. We get a lot of complaints about the Big Boy around here, but has anybody tuned a Big Boy to the point where it is race ready? As I said it seems a little heavy to me, but who am I to say it can't be made to reliably go fast in the hands of an experienced shooter.

 

Then you might say, why would you want to waste your money on tuning a Big Boy when every cowboy gunsmith knows how to speed up the Uberti 66 and 73. My answer is Uberti pretty much has the 73 and 66 market cornered. They could easily elect to price as any monopoly might. Now that Remington has acquired Marlin it is possible that old company will shut down. Finally, Rossi seems to be moving in a slightly different direction with the 92 than it used to. We might wake up someday to discover that the Big Boy is both available and attractively priced when compared to some of the other manufacturers.

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Henry built a modern gun, attempting to use modern methods and save on production costs. I am quite sure they knew all about the existing designs, but they appear to have thought they had built a better mouse trap. I won't go into the wherefore and whatnot of the politics involved, but will give em an A for guts, trying to influence luddites with something new...... FWIW the .22 version seems to get good reviews from most users.

And FWIW, the Henry .22 is in actuality a resurrected Ithaca Model 72, but instead of steel it has plastic innards and barrel bands, painted cast zinc receiver, and "star" lock washers on the screws holding it together.

 

Also FWIW... they have good barrels, shoot well, and Henry does stand behind 'em. :lol:

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One of the major components of SASS, to me, is authenticity, in firearms, clothing, and spirit of the game. The Henry Big Boy is not a replica of anything of the era. I have in past posts, talked about Henry's painted receivers and mystery metals that go into their rifles, not to mention plastic parts, even if they are minor parts. Granted, it is made in the USA. But is still is what it is. A copy of nothing, marketed using the historical Henry name. I feel bad for individuals who buy into the idea that this is a modern version of a real "Henry", then get into SASS and discover what they have.

 

And if you own one and want to shoot in SASS, so be it. You are welcome. No one is going to avoid you as if you are diseased or something. You WILL eventually buy a replica. And probably more than one!! :lol:

 

You can probably find a used and not abused Uberti in the Wire Classifieds for the cost of a Henry Big Boy new, if money is the only factor. I have found some great deals at way below retail - some stuff that looks, feels, and acts new as if out of the box.

 

Merry Christmas and a Safe and Prosperous New Year to ALL.

 

Marshall John Joseph

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Italy is a very nice country, as anybody who has visited it knows. They make good guns in northern Italy, and have been doing so continuously for 500 years. They are highly industrialized, and pay high wages.

 

Val Forgett, an American, got together with Aldo Uberti, an Italian. A very productive collaboration ensued, from which effort it can truly be said that this sport was born. Rifles and revolvers from Uberti and a couple others over there are the best reasonably affordable Old West true reproductions we have or likely ever will.

 

Firearms from foreign lands have always been a big part of the US firearms market, just as domestic products have. This is largely because European firearms craftsmanship goes back centuries. US firearms craftsmanship has contributed greatly.

 

The "complaint" seems to be that, while you can buy a US-made SAA, you can't buy a US-made 1873, Henry, or '66. This is a really low-level complaint!

 

I am very happy with my Uberti's: SAA, Russian, and 1873!

 

Would anybody seriously want a "pretend" 1873 that looked like one from the outside, as preferable to a rifle made by those troublesome furriners?

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Which was the Erma 712, made in Germany.

 

Now that's real interesting, because the father of the present owner of Henry was involved with Erma at one time. Funny how this stuff goes round and round, ain't it?

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One of the major components of SASS, to me, is authenticity, in firearms, clothing, and spirit of the game. The Henry Big Boy is not a replica of anything of the era.

As a Henry owner I respect your opinion, and I tend to have the same feelings towards the short stroking, action jobs, and low velocity mouse phart loads that populate SASS, but your opinion could also apply to the Blackhawks with adjustable sights and the Vaquero's with transfer bars. I agree Henry's marketing timing and strategy was terrible, but they're neither more or less authentic then most things allowed in SASS. A merry Christmas to you and yours also! :blush:

 

BSD

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I talked to the president of Henry a couple months ago after he contacted me. I contacted Henry asking them why they didnt produce a 1860 Henry and they told me that it was because the 1860 Henry was made for a rimfire and that it was not strong enough to handle the today's pressures. I told him I would have believe him more if he would have told me price was the issue and that if Uberti can make them strong enough then why couldn't Henry? Many people would prob. love to own a "HENRY" 1860 Henry. In the end he told me that they would look into producing one in the future.....but no plans are in line yet.

 

As far as the 1866 goes.....no idea.

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Could somebody idenify a single rifle that is usable out of the factory box. No, guns you buy tuned from Nate, Cody or Long Hunter don't count. Something that is match ready out of the box?

 

I would love to find an American made rifle I could successfully use in SASS. Only Marlin and Henry manufacture candidates, but neither of them is slick out of the box. On the other hand the Uberti 66, 73 and the Rossi 92 aren't slick out of the box either.

 

My only problem with the Big Boy is that is seems heavy to me. I don't know if anybody has ever really studied the Big Boy to see if increasing speed is possible.

 

My Marlin Cowboy Limited, Winchester '94 Trapper, and Uberti Henry..all in .45 Colt...worked fine out of the factory box. Of course, I ain't fast so the guns kept up with me just dandy :blink:

 

GG ~ :blush:

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Now that's real interesting, because the father of the present owner of Henry was involved with Erma at one time. Funny how this stuff goes round and round, ain't it?

 

Erma was in some ways like a European Ruger: generally decent guns that didn't cost an arm and a leg.

 

We also benefited from the exchange rate when we lived in Bavaria during the early-80s... and I fancied myself a minor lever-rifle "collector" of sorts at the time... so I bought one of their .22 lever rifles in magnum version. Extremely!!! accurate, although the trigger was really (!!!) rough. Somebody else imported that one at some time, too, maybe Iver Johnson and/or Ithaca. (I think I remember Iver Johnson was simultaneously importing an Erma-made .22 M1A-like carbine, too.) Wifey also had one of Erma's "Baby Lugers" -- and that worked OK except for two flaws: she didn't have enough finger strength to cock it, and empties always landed right on the shooter's head.

 

-Chris

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"As a Henry owner I respect your opinion, and I tend to have the same feelings towards the short stroking, action jobs, and low velocity mouse phart loads that populate SASS, but your opinion could also apply to the Blackhawks with adjustable sights and the Vaquero's with transfer bars. I agree Henry's marketing timing and strategy was terrible, but they're neither more or less authentic then most things allowed in SASS. A merry Christmas to you and yours also! "

 

I agree with what you say. I am not a fan of short stroking. Action jobs are not visable and I am sure that gunsmith's of the time did customize the actions of firearms. Mouse phart loads are a safety issue as are the transfer bars in a Ruger - again, not really visable. The Vaquero does resemble a SA of the times, however. I am not a fan of adjustable sites either - they "uglify" a Single Action, IMHO. There is an SASS shooting class for them. These aforementioned "additions" have been accepted and "classed" in a shooting category by SASS as has the Henry Big Boy. I am sure that there are other Single Action Revolvers made that even though they appear to be "cowboy" guns, are not acceptable in SASS. (I just can't think of any at the moment) The HBB is the only firearm that VERY LOOSELY fits into CAS - because it has a lever action. It is NOT a Historical Henry and its name can fool the uninitiated when getting into SASS. That is my only beef with Henry. I think they are less authentic then some of the examples you gave, but again, we agree to disagree.

 

If a prospective member KNOWS that this is really not a Henry replica, but a modern rifle with the Henry name slapped on it and they still buy one, that's a personal choice. I am not commenting on the quality of the rifle. Love 'em or hate 'em, they are approved for some SASS categories and that's fine. Engrave the poop out of them and tell prospective buyers that President Lincoln had an engraved Henry. It still ain't a Henry and is a little (lot) deceiving.

 

I know owners of HBB's get tired of hearing stuff about their guns. No insult intended.

 

MJJ

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Marshal, there is not just ONE category where Blackhawks are legal. They are legal in ALL age-based categories. If you are talking about Modern, well Modern is no more. It went away a year or two ago.

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I know owners of HBB's get tired of hearing stuff about their guns. No insult intended.

 

MJJ

None taken! My HBB was a Christmas gift from my wife, but she knew this was the rifle that I wanted, since I was also going to hunt with mine. The loads that I shoot in mine would blow the Uberti to pieces, same goes for my pistol hunting loads, so I only shoot the Old Model Vaquero's. If I was the typical speed racer in SASS, Henry wouldn't be my choice, but for a multi-tasker like myself they're perfect.

 

 

BSD

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Marshal, there is not just ONE category where Blackhawks are legal. They are legal in ALL age-based categories. If you are talking about Modern, well Modern is no more. It went away a year or two ago.

 

I was really referring to categories where adjustable sights are not allowed - Duelist, Gunfighter, Frontier Cartridge, and Classic Cowboy/Cowgirl. Any match revolver is allowable (adj sights included) in B Western and Aged Based. I was trying to say that there IS a place for adjustable sights in SASS (not allowed in most); fixed sights allowed in all. If you want to use a Blackhawk in a fixed sight category, you can modify the Blackhawk by "removing the rear sight assembly, welding up the sight cutout, recontouring the frame topstrap, and cutting a new sight notch to replicate Colt SAA or Vaquero frames. The reconfigured frame must be mated with a conventional Ruger Vaquero type barrel, hammer, and the original grip frame assembly in order to be allowed as a fixed sight model revolver." I'm starting to get dizzy :mellow:

 

And that's all I have to say about that. ;) Straight and safe shootin' to all, and to all a good night.

 

MJJ

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