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1911 Passive Safety


G. P. Cobb

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What is the deal with the series 80 like Sig, Kimber, Remmington, Auto Ord & more.

My local smith tells me they are bad in conflict, the Springfield does not have that feature.

You can see the little hook down and to the right with the slide back to verify if yours has it.

Are they bad for WB?

What is your feelings about passive safety on a 1911?

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* Extra parts that can fail.

* Never have been shown to prevent accidental discharges (they were added in theory to prevent firing if gun dropped on the muzzle in condition 1 from 10 feet in the air or so - but no reports show that guns without the firing pin safety are discharging under those conditions anyway).

* Adds about 1/4 to 1/2 pound to the trigger pull

* A MAJOR PITA to reassemble properly until you have done it a few dozen times

 

Bottom line - I don't like 'em. Feel free to have your own opinion. Don't think you can change mine. :FlagAm:

 

Good luck, GJ

 

 

(one M in Remington, please)

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* Extra parts that can fail.

* Never have been shown to prevent accidental discharges (they were added in theory to prevent firing if gun dropped on the muzzle in condition 1 from 10 feet in the air or so - but no reports show that guns without the firing pin safety are discharging under those conditions anyway).

* Adds about 1/4 to 1/2 pound to the trigger pull

* A MAJOR PITA to reassemble properly until you have done it a few dozen times

 

Bottom line - I don't like 'em. Feel free to have your own opinion. Don't think you can change mine. :D

 

Good luck, GJ

 

 

(one M in Remington, please)

 

All i can add is WHY in tha hell cant they just leave sumthin that has worked for over 100 yrs tha hell alone :D

I get physicly ill when i see a stoopid extra "safty" added to a perfectly safe gun :P

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[quote name

* Extra parts that can fail.

* Adds about 1/4 to 1/2 pound to the trigger pull

* A MAJOR PITA to reassemble properly until you have done it a few dozen times

 

 

I have a Colt 1991A1 which has the 80 series firing pin block safety. I haven't experienced any of the above issues with my pistol...almost no affect on the trigger (certainly not 1/2 a pound), easy to remove and reinstall (to anyone who knows how to detail strip the pistol) and no more prone to failure than any other part on the gun, IMHO. The parts are removable and their absence will have no affect on the operation of the gun, so if you don't like the idea of a firing pin safety you can just take it out.

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Someone better schooled in 1911s can tell us this ; does the Kimber safety differ in operation to the Colt design ?? I mean the hammer block safety , not the main one on the left rear. Seems I read that somewhere.

Curious , Rex :P

 

 

The Kimber firing pin lock safety (not hammer block) is activated by the grip safety. The Colt design is activated by the trigger. Therefore, the Kimber trigger pull is not affected. I think the whole safety issue is overblown and doubt that anyone could really feel the difference in any kind of action shooting.

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Have a series "80" Colt Gold Cup and the trigger breaks right at 3 1/4 pounds.

YES, all of the trigger/safety parts are in and the hammer never "follows".

Just got to know what's your doing is all when working a 1911 trigger.

Respectfully,

LG

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Have a series "80" Colt Gold Cup and the trigger breaks right at 3 1/4 pounds.

YES, all of the trigger/safety parts are in and the hammer never "follows".

 

Just got to know what's your doing is all when working a 1911 trigger.

Respectfully,

LG

________________________

Explain "Follows" ???

__________________________

Why take out parts then if all functions are ok, and these things never fail or have failed? Not saying they were nessisary changes in the first place, but if they work without failure, why change it now?

 

A simple cowboy who still has transfer bars in his Rugers and happy they are there....... Cobb

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What is the deal with the series 80 like Sig, Kimber, Remmington, Auto Ord & more.

My local smith tells me they are bad in conflict, the Springfield does not have that feature.

You can see the little hook down and to the right with the slide back to verify if yours has it.

Are they bad for WB?

What is your feelings about passive safety on a 1911?

The series 80 safety is a firing pin blocking safety that is de-activated as the trigger is pressed back.

It lies at rest in the slide, blocking the firing pin from being able to strike the primer if the gun is dropped

in such a way as to provide inertia to the firing pin. When the trigger is pushed back, a pivoting piece

articulates another piece, which in turn pushes up the plunger into the slide and out of the way of the firing pin.

 

Whether inertial discharges actually happen, or are merely thought to happen is debatable, but irrelevant.

Litigation threats and state laws have conspired to force manufacturers to install these types of safeties on

many firearms.

 

Removing a safety from a gun is considered by many to be foolish, see above reasoning.

 

It can be done, and is done by some, but it must be pointed out that any competent gunsmith can

make a series 80 trigger operate as good as a series seventy, and if he can't - you really need to

take your money and your guns elsewhere.

 

While one can argue that more parts are more opportunities for something to fail, it can also be argued that

the design is so darn good, it doesn't matter. There are those who will still find a reason to bitch . . .

nothing you can do about that.

 

Shadow Catcher

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________________________

Explain "Follows" ???

__________________________

Why take out parts then if all functions are ok, and these things never fail or have failed? Not saying they were nessisary changes in the first place, but if they work without failure, why change it now?

 

A simple cowboy who still has transfer bars in his Rugers and happy they are there....... Cobb

 

Hammer follow is when you drop the slide(hard)on an EMPTY 1911 and the hammer doesn't stay cocked.

Happens allot when someone who does NOT know how to re-work a 1911 trigger gets ahold of it :D

OH- I still have the t/bars in my Rugers too.

Cheers,

LG

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Hammer follow is when you drop the slide(hard)on an EMPTY 1911 and the hammer doesn't stay cocked.

Happens allot when someone who does NOT know how to re-work a 1911 trigger gets ahold of it :D

OH- I still have the t/bars in my Rugers too.

Cheers,

LG

__________________

Thank ya sir, and the Shaddow Cather and the rest. I think I'll just leave ours alone. I really can't feel any difference between the trigger safety and the ones without. Mute point from a simple shooter, that'd be me............

 

MC everybody..... Cobb.

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[quote

Why take out parts then if all functions are ok, and these things never fail or have failed? Not saying they were nessisary changes in the first place, but if they work without failure, why change it now?

 

Wasn't advocating removing the parts...left mine in. Some don't like it just because it's there.

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A Series 80 safety cannot just be taken out. The plunger and spring can be removed but the plunger lever must be modified or replaced with a spacer. Leaving this part completely out turns a first class fighting gun into a small, ineffective club.

 

I have done trigger work on all my Colt 1911's, both Series 70 and 80 and cannot feel any discernible difference in the triggers. The 80's still have all safeties. People get upset about the Series 80 design like it just happened yesterday. It was 30 years ago.

 

John Browning didn't think the 1911 needed anything more than a grip safety. The military made him add the thumb safety. Colt just added one more in 1980.

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[quote name

*

I have a Colt 1991A1 which has the 80 series firing pin block safety. I haven't experienced any of the above issues with my pistol...almost no affect on the trigger (certainly not 1/2 a pound), easy to remove and reinstall (to anyone who knows how to detail strip the pistol) and no more prone to failure than any other part on the gun, IMHO. The parts are removable and their absence will have no affect on the operation of the gun, so if you don't like the idea of a firing pin safety you can just take it out.

 

Correct.

 

I have a Series 70 1911 that has about 50,000 rounds downrange. I have a Series 80 Colt with about that many, too. The Series 80 has better sights and a better trigger.

 

Neither has ever failed.

 

This is actual experience, not gunstore commando blather. :FlagAm:

 

Cheers,

FJT

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At this point I'm thinking my new gunsmith friend is full of mystery and BS. Glad I didn't get excited to change her Remmy and my Khar Auto. They both work as good as our Springfields, I can't feel any difference.

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At this point I'm thinking my new gunsmith friend is full of mystery and BS. Glad I didn't get excited to change her Remmy and my Khar Auto. They both work as good as our Springfields, I can't feel any difference.

 

YOU ;) just hit the nail on the head :D

If a ain't broke don't fix it :FlagAm:

Respectfully,

LG

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Someone better schooled in 1911s can tell us this ; does the Kimber safety differ in operation to the Colt design ?? I mean the hammer block safety , not the main one on the left rear. Seems I read that somewhere.

Curious , Rex :FlagAm:

 

The Colt design works off the trigger, two levers in tandem move when the trigger is pressed pushing up on the firing pin safety plunger moving it out of the way so the pistol can fire.

 

The Kimber design works the same BUT off the grip safety and does not affect the trigger weight like the Colt does although that is small. If you don't get the grip safety depressed all the way the gun doesn't fire however the safeties are (and have been for some time) shaped to prevent this.

 

Both of these designs are passive and you won't notice them in actual operation. Are they "safer" than series 70 styles that do not have a firing pin safety? Hmmm. Safety is between the ears.

 

Would I let this feature be the deciding factor in buy/not buy a particular pistol? Nope.

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